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Civilization elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Bakspatel, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. Avatan

    Avatan Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    271
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    Arabia 24
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 16
    Carthage 23
    China 24
    Egypt 6 - 2 = 4
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13 + 1 = 14
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 2

    Egypt: poor UU, rather weak UA at high diff at it won't really make a real difference, nice UB even though it has been nerfed through the happiness boost. Plus they are the juiciest civ to destroy thanks to UB.

    France: I like the two time development, first 4 cultural cities with peace & tradition, then killing every neighbor one at a time. It fits me well on big maps.
     
  2. lollibast

    lollibast Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    102
    It is indeed odd. French military has not been superior since Napoleon's defeat. So a UU, say "Corps d'esprit" somewhere between musketeers and riflemen (yould be either) would best qualify. And if it has to be a second one, i agree to french cavalry.
     
  3. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,359
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    This last sentence is exactly the point I was making rephrased. If I want to generate a GA, GE, or GS for a strategic reason, I don't want to have unnecessary great people increasing the cost of said targeted great people. Maya is the Jack of all trades but the master of none. For a beginner player who doesn't know how to specialize cities, manage specialists, or target the finish time of great people, having them pop sporadically throughout the game is a nice feature. Once the game mechanics are understood, having great people increase in cost while not getting the great person of strategic choice is a liability, not an asset, to the player's strategy.
     
  4. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,258
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 16
    Carthage 23
    China 24
    Egypt 6 - 2 = 4
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13 + 1 = 14
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 3

    But it's not a particularly notable military formation, it's just known for a legend about people joining it to forget. Something like Napoleon's Imperial Guard replacing Cavalry would be well-known and would reflect France's military history as a cavalry power.

    Yes, but you were making it as your sole point - I was, indeed, making it as the last sentence. Looking at it in isolation is like looking at the Keshik or Turtle Ship and seeing only a unit that can't take cities or cross oceans respectively. Yet if the Turtle Ship could cross oceans, becoming faster and able to hit otherwise inaccessible coastal cities, it would be completely broken. It's not weak because it can't cross oceans; it's a necessary cost to balance it.

    Firstly, it will be a rare situation when you have more than one or two unwanted GPs who add to the cost, Secondly, you're looking at it from the perspective of 'typical' GP generation. Do I want to invest in market specialists to produce GMs? Unless I'm playing for diplo, no. There's a cost of using specialists in place of working tiles in order to get a GP type I don't particularly need; moreover, where you put the effort into produce one GM, without a level of micromanagement most people don't apply to their specialists, you'll end up with more than one GM. That is generally undesirable - exchanging one GS for a Customs House, say, is at best trivial and in some cases can be a good investment; it's the mentality that producing one GP type means specialising in and so producing more of that GP type that sees it as a penalty. And as with any civ, you want to play to its strengths. You know what you're getting with the Maya, so you play to strategy that lets you find a use for each of your GPs (though the Admiral by its nature simply won't be relevant on all maps, however this doesn't increase the GP count), you don't just look at the strategy you typically use and decide the civ's bad because it doesn't suit it, any more than you would downvote France because you only play OCC.
     
  5. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    5,393
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 16
    Carthage 23
    China 24
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 14
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 4

    Sweden is both powerful, and fun and different. Peaceful builder the first half of the game (more my style) then switch to the HULK once you hit rifling. I wonder if people haven't played them enough yet.

    Japan. Booor-ring.
     
  6. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,505
    Location:
    London
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 16
    Carthage 23
    China 24
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 14
    Korea 24
    Maya 26 +1
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 0 -2
    Sweden 4

    I dont really have much of an opinion on the whole Sweden thing. I always thought they were ok. Songhai have gone though.

    Maya get another vote from me though. They are so awesome.
     
  7. Lord Kid

    Lord Kid Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    191
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 16
    Carthage 23
    China 25
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 14
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 2

    China is just great fun to play with. Their UA is kinda underwhelming, but their UU and UB more than make up for it.

    Sweden, what can I say? Fairly useless UA, I'd rather donate money or perform quests than give up my GP's. Caroleans are pretty beastly, but I'm not really impressed by their other UU.
     
  8. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    5,393
    You need to use it selectively (like getting a CS right on the other side of a civ you're about to DoW on).
     
  9. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    3,562
    I like the idea of skipping votes if no reasons are given but that will complicate the scoring updates though.
     
  10. Captain Fargle

    Captain Fargle Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    543
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 14 (-2)
    Carthage 23
    China 25
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 14
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3 (+1)

    I'm astonished at how much hate Sweden is getting. An extremely powerful UA and one of the best UU's in the game (Caroleans). The Hakkapelitta is pretty crap sure, but the other bonuses more than make up for it. By far my favourite Civ in the game.

    Byzantium on the other hand? I don't like them at all. Dromons are cool and all but Cataphracts are dull as hell and their UA depends on not only getting a religion, but getting one before all the good bonuses are gone. All too often Byzantium isn't even going to get a religion at all and in that case Dromons just aren't going to make up for it.
     
  11. theguy8882

    theguy8882 Warlord

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 12
    Carthage 23
    China 25
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 14
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 2

    I upvoted the Arabians again for two reasons. Firtsly I just one my first emperor game as them, and secondly people have been downvoting them and I don't want them to be in the middle they have to be at the top.

    I don't like the Byzantines. My problem with them is that you need to make sure your religion has a lot of cities or else it isn't that great. I don't think they're UUs have any synergy which is a problem. The Byzantines should have gotten a unique religous building instead of two UUs. I think the cataphract is good, but I don't particularly like the dromon.
     
  12. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10 (-2)
    Carthage 23
    China 25
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 9 (+1)
    Japan 14
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3

    My poor, sweet Songhai. I'm not going to let the Iroquois die next! They're a production powerhouse with synergistic characteristics that are very easy to get up and running quickly. Minus to the Byzantines for same reasons as theguy8882 and Captain Fargle, although I like dromons quite a bit.
     
  13. loki75

    loki75 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    83
    The rage around sweden is fun :crazyeye: ! Haven't tried them yet, so I can't really comment on usefulness of their UA.
     
  14. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,412
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 25
    Egypt 4 (-2)
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 9
    Japan 15 (+1)
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3

    Japan: Must love Samurai Musketmen.

    Egypt: Really deserve to go before Sweden.
     
  15. Leviat

    Leviat Addict

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    US
    I also agree that no reason should be no vote.

    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 25
    Egypt 2
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 10
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3

    Egypt: Next voter, please kill them. One of the worst UU's in the game, and an inflexible UA that becomes a non-factor on higher levels.

    Iroquois: What more can I say about them? Rather than write something new, here's what I posted last time...
    "1.) Cheap, early trade routes nets you significantly more gold from trade routes than arabia early on. Think about it. It's nearly roadless trade routes, saving you ~4 gold/route, versus +1 gold/route for arabia.
    2.) Ironless swordsman UU with a 33% bonus in forest/jungle. Get IW, get Math, get unlimited Mohawk Warriors and Catapults.
    4.) Longhouse is a huge production boon. With the forest start bias, your first 3-4 cities will have plenty of forests. Lumber Mill + Longhouse and a simple forest gets a 1 food, 3 prod tile.

    So plop down your first 3-4 cities, mass an army of Mohawks and Catapults, and go to town on your neighbors. Or stay small and use your production advantage to spam wonders and build infrastructure faster than any other civ. And don't sweat about protecting your lands; you've got units with a 33% forest bonus sitting in forest tiles."
     
  16. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,014
    Location:
    Elmendorf, Tx
    What I was saying, which you so clearly choose to ignore, is it only takes 1 more tech for Korea to start making the same same BPT as Babylon with an academy. With Korea's tech boost, they can get to that tech fairly quickly by just building the library in the capital. So at most Babylon will have a few turns lead on reaching Education even if both civs beeline to Education. However, once Korea hits Education, it will shoot past Babylon in tech and stay ahead of them.
     
  17. Charlieguns

    Charlieguns Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Lima, Peru
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 23 (-2)
    Egypt 2
    England 21 (+1)
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 10
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3

    China: I just don't know what to do with lots of generals. I use one for battles and build a couple of citadels..... but generals keep coming.
    I also think that it's the worst AI in the game. Always stays with one or two cities.

    England: Longbows, sea movement, ships, spies.....
     
  18. truenarnian

    truenarnian Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Tk'emlups
    Which shows a depressingly "American" bias. Rather than give units or Ux's that showcase historically important parts of the culture, the developers chose the things (at least in France's case) that are iconic American media representations. (I know Dumas's book is French, but it exists in the minds of the American consumers because of American/British media.)
     
  19. shadowplay

    shadowplay (boss music)

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    Toronto
    Sorry... I didn't realize we were required to elaborate. I down-voted Iroquois because I think their ability is weak relative to what most of the other (non-eliminated) civilizations get. I upvoted Greece for the exact opposite reason, I think their bonus is quite strong. I admit I'm focusing more on UA's rather than UU's or UB's.

    Feel free to disagree with me. But can I have my votes reinstated please?
     
  20. truenarnian

    truenarnian Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Tk'emlups
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    Egypt 2
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 10
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 15
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3

    +: Ethiopia. It's funny because so many of you are Deity players and so (understandably) rate the civs on their performance at high levels, but for me Civ has always been about theme, and I often create situations or give myself restrictions to that end. (Like taking Polynesia on Continents plus and my first city has to be offshore.) So today I am upping Ethiopia. I love sub-Saharan civs, and I can't see this one go away any time soon. And I love Ethiopia in every iteration of Civ. I'll save some reasons for future up votes.

    -: Persia. It's weird that the aesthetic of a civ could bother me this much, but I hate the McDonald's colour scheme and the Immortal icon. In theory I should like this civ because I like playing for Golden Ages, but they've gone from one of my favorite civs to my most hated. And every game I can ever remember having them in, they've been terrible, unreasonable neighbours. I'll think of some new reasons by tomorrow's downvote.
     

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