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Civilization elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Bakspatel, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. Bakspatel

    Bakspatel Prince

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    464
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Fixed.

    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    Egypt 2
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 15
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3
     
  2. Elgalad

    Elgalad Bully!

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    857
    Location:
    Land of the Free, Home of the Brave
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    Egypt 2
    England 22 (+1)
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 13 (-2)
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3

    Every time I play England it feels like an epic adventure. The theme music sets the mood right off the bat, and it only builds from there.. I'm a fan of early and powerful navies to dominate the seas, which fits right in with Liz's UA and ships of the line. Last but certainly not least, her longbows are just plain Sick with that crazy range. :goodjob:

    Persia.. well, I'll be honest and admit I've only played them twice. Both times I quit early because while their UA is nice (golden ages rock!) I always feel like I should wait for a GA to start beating up on my neighbors and just about the time I get really into it, the GA ends and I'm on the defensive again. Not a fan of immortals either. I rarely make spearmen unless I Have to because of horsey neighbors (much prefer warrior -> sword -> longsword -> etc).


    -Elgalad
     
  3. Xichael

    Xichael Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Ontario
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    Egypt 2
    England 23 (+1)
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6 (-2)
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 13
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3

    England's UA makes everything a whole lot easier on maps with multiple landmasses, from scouting to settling it just makes things happen a lot faster. Also, longbowmen to gatling gun is now just awesome.

    Iroquois doesn't fit my playstyle, as I usually prefer to go scorched earth on forests and build farms/nuke everything that attacks me in open terrain. Call me a simplest but it works well for me :D
     
  4. Tachii

    Tachii Procrastinator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    Egypt 0
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 14
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3

    Persia 14? Blasphemy! Persia is never a weak civ in my games, and I never had a weak game with Persia. They are the masters of culture games (other than Siam), their UB gets prioritized by puppets, their UU is deadly (I prefer Immortals > Hoplites/German UU as Pikes), and what an incredibly UA it is. +1 movement makes early wars a joke, and it can go hand in hand with a warmonger culture game near the end game with endless Golden Ages. Nevermind the +4/5 turns from Golden Ages themselves.

    Egypt is out the window I'm afraid. They're just not that interesting as a civ. Almost nobody like their war chariots, they want to be tall but isn't very good in the culture/science department either, there's just a lack of synergy of the UA/UB/UUs they have.
     
  5. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,020
    I like Sweden more and more despite only having played them to best effect once, but there is a definite trend here for people to prefer the civs with passive bonuses or that fit their existing playstyle, rather than those that reward more creative approaches (I always use my GPs to do X, so I don't want to use them to do Y"). There's a lot of "I can already do X, why do I want to do Y instead?" reasoning (e.g., why trade GPs when I can spend money/complete quests) by people who don't register that you can do both, and in so doing get a far superior bonus.

    Also bear in mind that a lot of people do still have trouble managing diplomacy effectively - I can reliably spend much of a game getting a Babylon-equivalent bonus for all my GP generation, but a lot of people struggle to maintain lasting friendships with more than one or two civs. Also, in this and the Wonder thread alike, people seem to ignore/forget bonuses to GP generation altogether - focusing on Babylon just for its early GP, seeing Pisa as just a free GP with no other effect, thinking of Sweden as just "give GPs away" and neglecting the "make more GPs" aspect, or even the fact that with Patronage a single GP gift that will keep you allied with a CS for 30 turns (other effects notwithstanding) will more than pay for itself in the GPs you get back from your ally.

    It is a mass-market game and always has been (Zulus as a civ??), so it's certainly defensible to a degree, but I think in France's case it's taken to an extreme. Napoleon is an obvious choice from a PR standpoint but also a genuinely good leader choice for the civ. The Musketeer takes a bit of swallowing, but the book is sufficiently iconic to justify it, not really something that's true of the Foreign Legion. France is seen as a cultural hub (although more specifically, Paris is seen as a major cultural centre, so possibly a more appropriate UA would have focused on culture bonuses for the capital). It just seems that with France everything is about pandering to popular expectations, something not as true of (say) China - everyone knows of repeating crossbows and the Art of War, fewer of Wu Zetian, and while the country is indeed popularly known for developing the first paper currency, that is a genuine achievement that's quite reasonably reflected in the UB.
     
  6. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    920
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 15
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3

    I have to agree with previous poster. Persia is too good to go out now.
    Aztecs, like Sweden, just doesn't fit with my play style either. I know you can get Honor opener to get a lot of culture, but I don't focus on barb hunting a lot, and I feel like I would have to be a really strong warmonger to really get the most out of his ability. I like the Jaguar, but the Floating Gardens is a situational building as it needs a river or lake.
     
  7. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 15
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 3
     
  8. Light Cleric

    Light Cleric ElCee/LC/El Cid

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,198
    I disregarded the post above me(Carl5872) because as Bakspatel said, "No motivation no count.". That's how we're supposed to handle it right?

    If not, then you can add his votes into the count.

    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 10
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 15
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Sweden 4

    Sweden - These guys are getting sold short, I think. Caroleans are excellent Rifleman UUs. March is an excellent promotion and getting from the start is fantastic. The Hippopotamus is still a good UU, even though I really dislike the Lancer upgrade path; hitting quite hard with a Great General and also moving the otherwise slow GGs up the line faster or into rough terrain to drop a citadel. The UA is also excellent because you can throw those excess Great Generals at city-states that can be extremely expensive otherwise; 90 Influence in the mid/late game is the equivalent of a TON of gold.

    Mongolia - Khans and Keshiks are still awesome units, don't get me wrong. The problem is how much longer it takes to reach Chivalry now, and that the AI seems to use planes earlier and much more often than I remember, and at that point it doesn't take too long for your level 10 Keshiks to drop like flies. Lancers being somewhat more common is also a problem. Combine that with how the City-State aspect of the UA almost never comes into play in a normal game and you've got problems. Not a terrible civ, but possibly the worst one left.
     
  9. maurcus

    maurcus Warlord

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    245
    I agree on those points and personally I would prefer to see a cultural ub instead of the musketeer (its been the there UU since civ3 :cry:) but you also have to remember that this game is primarily made by/for Americans so you cant expect every thing to be totally perfect.
     
  10. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    5,167
    Yeah, only European things are totally perfect. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Light Cleric

    Light Cleric ElCee/LC/El Cid

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,198
    If the game does have such a deep American bias and made to cater to popular viewpoints, I have to question why civilizations like Songhai and Siam got in while only a few civilizations besides the United States(one of which even has the same territory as the US) from either American continent were included while there's a colossal amount of civs from Europe/Asia. Also, as many have pointed out(even some that agree with you to an extent), many civilizations did get interesting UUs/UBs. You can criticize them for not coming up with something better, but I don't think "bias" has anything to do with it.

    Like, really, I don't think they thought "You know, more Americans will buy this if we have Foreign Legions", or "Okay, we just got done researching a bunch of civilizations and writing up history many people have probably not heard. Let's ignore France."
     
  12. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,460
    Location:
    USA
    well, it if it were truly an American bias their UA would involve some conditional bonus involving a surrender, haha. french surrender jokes have been done to death here in the states. but if it makes you feel better, America is long gone from this list and France is still kicking just fine.
     
  13. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    Mod comment: I think it's OK to require reasons for votes. This is in the discussion part of the forums, so just voting without a reason is spam. At least this way, by applying peer pressure to include reasons you're furthering the discussion instead of making us card spammers. :)
     
  14. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    With my civ player hat on, I'm enjoying reading the discussion. It might even motivate me to buy the expansion soon.
     
  15. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    5,167

    It's well worth it Dave. :goodjob:
     
  16. Peng Qi

    Peng Qi Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,429
    Location:
    Irrelevant.
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 11
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 10
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 15
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 20
    Siam 18
    Sweden 4


    Byzantines get my vote. They're the only civ in the game whose UA you get to PICK. They can be good at anything. The only trade-off here is you have to invest heavily in religion early, but if you're not doing that as the Byzantines then you might as well play Mongolia for a Diplomacy victory.

    Gonna hit Russia today. I've actually never felt particularly motivated to play them. Their UU comes really late and their UA is very specific. They're not bad, just bland.
     
  17. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,460
    Location:
    USA
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 11
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 10
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 15
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18
    Sweden 4

    Rome is nice to play as, but since GnK came out Legion are less fun. And the downvote is really for playing against them. As an AI they vex me. They really vex me.

    Babylon warmongering is fun. even Bowman rushes that are now weaker since comp bows came out is still fun.
     
  18. Awsome Sause

    Awsome Sause Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Arabia 23
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 11
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 10
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 15
    Roman Empire 21
    Russia 20
    Siam 18
    Sweden 2

    Roman Empire: The building bonus really helps new cities become productive fast and there UU's make conquest much easier in the classical era.

    Sweden: I have played two games as Sweden and i liked them because they make you play different and there UU's are nice but i think they are the worst Civ left.
     
  19. Uzumati

    Uzumati Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Arabia 21 -2
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 11
    Carthage 23
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 10
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 16 +1
    Roman Empire 21
    Russia 20
    Siam 18
    Sweden 2

    I love Persia. Unlike a previous post about the timing of your GA's, you should be popping those alot to worry about the bonus. They make a great cultural powerhouse. The Immortal is the better melee for it's time, with the double heal bonus. Makes the army go alot faster in a GA.

    I just did a good game as Arabia and liked it. But compared to Persia, the gold was about the same for me.
     
  20. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 19
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 11
    Carthage 24 (+1)
    China 23
    England 23
    Ethiopia 17
    France 13
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 15
    Korea 24
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 10
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 19 (-2)
    Russia 20
    Siam 18
    Sweden 2

    Sorry about my spam post earlier I forgot to give my reasons.

    Carthage - Those free harbors kick in right from the start of the game, allowing you to get them earlier than other civs, plus if youre by sea resources you get extra hammers meaning your cities will develop faster then others if these things are present. You can also plop a city down on a 1 tile island and let it grow for science and trade route income.

    Rome - Both their UU's come at more or less the same time, and are a bit excessive. The way I look at it, a pumped up swordsman means you can cut back on siege units somewhat. Conversely, stronger siege units means you can cut back on shock troops to take the city.
     

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