Civilization elimination thread

[Dogmouth]

America 11
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 26
Byzantium 19 (-2)
Carthage 23
Celts 9
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Huns 4
Inca 26
Iroquois 18 (+1)
Japan 18
Korea 22
Maya 26
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 19
Russia 19
Siam 21
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

Minus to Byzantium for having a UA dependent upon faith despite the fact that the civ has no faith bonuses. I do this with some hesitation, however, because I love the dromon (we're running out of bad civs).

Plus to Iroquois for being so insanely underrated. With their starting bias, UA, and UU, they essentially start with a Great Wall. They're also one of the quickest starting civs in the game, with no need to build roads (or minimal need), a higher likelihood than other civs to start with deer (again, due to their forest starting bias), and ample emergency chopping resources (I don't like to chop as Iroqouis, but the resources are available if necessary). Their UU can get up and running quickly, and the tech path is synergistic with their UB, which is synergistic with their start bias and UA. All told, they are a very thoughtfully crafted and agile civ. I put them right up there with the Inca as a top 5 civ.

 

[Monthar]

Also, in my games, minutemen/muskets are just not around for a very long time. So you would have to really redirect a lot of your production in a short period of time to be able to pump out enough minutemen to have a decent sized army with their bonuses in later eras.

While this was true in Vanilla since the upgrade path went from longswords directly to riflemen it is no longer an issue in G&K, because the upgrade path is now from longswords to muskets. So you can build warriors, swords, longswords and minutemen and have that rough terrain movement promotion as you upgrade all those early units. Thus you now have from the first turn all the way up to rifling build up as large a force of minutemen as you want.

Also, even though the B17 comes a little later than vanilla, the GW bombers upgrade into them. so even though you'll likely already have those GW's promoted for siege, you'll still get a bomber that has 5 more strength than a regular bomber and the evasion promotion. So not only will it do more damage it'll take far less damage than the regular bomber.

 

[Haphaz]

America 11 - 2 = 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 26
Byzantium 21
Carthage 23
Celts 9
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Huns 2 -2
Inca 26
Iroquois 17
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 26 + 1 = 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 19
Russia 19
Siam 21
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

As others said, America's UA is quite weak compared to others and its UUs are too late.

Maya - played the latest GOTM with them, and their Pyramid and UA were great - they allowed a different game where it was much easier to get Faith/Great Persons, allowing you to focus elsewhere.

 

[Monthar]

...

This post skipped my vote/corrections and was skipped by the vote post after it.

America 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 26
Byzantium 19
Carthage 23
Celts 9
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Huns 2
Inca 26
Iroquois 18
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 19
Russia 19
Siam 21
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

 

[Dogmouth]

Thanks, Monthar. Things were starting to get messy.

 

[Monthar]

I know, especially since Korea's count has been off since back at post 244.

 

[Charlieguns]

America 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 26 - 2 =24
Byzantium 19+1 = 20
Carthage 23
Celts 9
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Huns 2 -2
Inca 26
Iroquois 19
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 19
Russia 19
Siam 21
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

I think Babylonian UA is very situational. Bowman is a great unit but gets quickly replaced to Composites. walls are ok.

Byzantium UA is also situational, but if you build stonehenge and you found a religion, you will centainly domain the game. Dromon is very usefull, you will have to wait till compass in other civs to have a range ship. cataphract are strong, an army of them is almost all you need for domination victory (and a free belief).

 

[Tachii]

Seem like all the science civs are ahead while the warmonger civs are either gone or low in score.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

While this was true in Vanilla since the upgrade path went from longswords directly to riflemen it is no longer an issue in G&K, because the upgrade path is now from longswords to muskets. So you can build warriors, swords, longswords and minutemen and have that rough terrain movement promotion as you upgrade all those early units. Thus you now have from the first turn all the way up to rifling build up as large a force of minutemen as you want.

Ahh, so the terrain promotion isn't restricted to Minutemen, it's applied to all melee units?

Another instance of me not knowing what the heck I'm talking about.

You guys keep me on my toes.

 

[Monthar]

Ahh, so the terrain promotion isn't restricted to Minutemen, it's applied to all melee units?

Another instance of me not knowing what the heck I'm talking about.

You guys keep me on my toes.

No, it is a minuteman specific promotion, but the promotion is added once you upgrade those units to minutemen.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

America 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 27
Byzantium 19
Carthage 23
Celts 9
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Huns 0
Inca 26
Iroquois 19
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 19
Russia 19
Siam 21
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

Huns are just redundant with Mongols and I like keshiks better than horse archers. also the battering ram cant attack units which is frustrating.

Babylons early science makes for great military rushes too. love it.

 

[Monthar]

...

Another voting error correction.

America 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 25
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
Celts 9
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Huns 0
Inca 26
Iroquois 18
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 19
Russia 19
Siam 21
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

Edit: Added Hammer Rabbi's vote, which apparently skipped the vote I was correcting, to the correction due to a cross post with the corrections.

Folks, please open the thread in a 2nd window/tab before hitting submit on your vote, so you can make any corrections to your voting list from cross posts and we won't have to have so many correction posts.

 

[PhilBowles]

I upvoted Denmark because I really like polders.

I almost downvoted England. Not because I dislike England, but because I really dislike the embarkation bug that hits them especially hard. I've told units to land on an island several turns away only to have them arrive at the island and spend 10+ turns pacing back and forth in front of the beaches before I've noticed. Argh

Denmark doesn't have polders, that's the Netherlands.

Although Denmark may fix your embarkation bug (which I haven't noticed) - firstly they move more quickly when embarked than other civs, and secondly they can land and move in the same turn so don't need to stand around by a beach.

 

[OmniPotent42]

America 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 25
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
Celts 9
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Inca 26
Iroquois 18
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 19 (+1)
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 17 (-2)
Russia 19
Siam 21
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

I like the Netherlands, as their UI is the best in the game IMO, and their UA can help with gold OR happiness as well. Say you need 2 extra happiness? Trade it away for another resource from the AI. It's not only useful for gold. Can really synergize with commerce tree. Rome....just doesn't mesh with my play style. I rarely get iron, so one of their uu's is irrelevant, while I hardly ever push out in the classical era, making the extra combat strength of the Ballista irrelevant. I also feel like I HAVE to get a second city up for the UA, and I often find myself justifying taking Liberty (even though I know that Tradition is WAY better).

 

[theguy8882]

America 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 25
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
Celts 7
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Inca 26
Iroquois 18
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 19
Russia 19
Siam 22
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

Siam is my favorite civ for a cultural victory. The culture and food they get from city states can be insane. The narusean's elephant is pretty good, and the wat is a good way to get science without losing production that could be spent on culture.

The Celts aren't good. The only use they have is getting an early pantheon, and other then that they aren't good for much.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Monthar, what I do is edit all my text to reflect my votes, when im done i dont post it but copy it, refresh the page to see if any have come in since i started my post and if not I then quickly paste/post. if it has i correct the post and then do it again to see if another sniper post sneaks in.

but i did just make the mistake of using charliegun's wrong vote numbers. i used his list but just had a brain-fart when posting that one, haha.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

America 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 25
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
Celts 7
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Inca 26
Iroquois 18
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 19
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 17
Russia 19
Siam 22
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

theguy missed OmniPotent's votes. fixed.

 

[OmniPotent42]

America 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 25
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
Celts 7
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Inca 26
Iroquois 18
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 19
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 17
Russia 19
Siam 22
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

whoopss...I guess I was sniped.

 

[Monthar]

...

Yet another voting correction

America 9
Arabia 24
Aztecs 21
Babylon 25
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
Celts 7
China 24
Denmark 8
Egypt 10
England 17
Ethiopia 20
France 18
Greece 20
Inca 26
Iroquois 18
Japan 18
Korea 25
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 19
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 19
Roman Empire 17
Russia 19
Siam 22
Songhai 10
Sweden 16

Monthar, what I do is edit all my text to reflect my votes, when im done i dont post it but copy it, refresh the page to see if any have come in since i started my post and if not I then quickly paste/post. if it has i correct the post and then do it again to see if another sniper post sneaks in.

but i did just make the mistake of using charliegun's wrong vote numbers. i used his list but just had a brain-fart when posting that one, haha.

I figured as much, but lots of others keep skipping votes. It's understandable when the votes are just a few minutes apart, but I've seen several that were more than 10 minutes apart.

Edit: roflmao, 3 of us corrected this latest voting error at the same time.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

nice, a team of regulators on the job!