[LP] Civilization VI: Leader Pass - Discussion Thread

[Kupe Navigator]

I just hope Sejong looks distinct enough. The design will likely be the one they used in Civ 5, but that's very close to what Yongle looks like. The hat, the facial hair, the clothes and the dragon pattern (centre and upper sleeves) are all very similar to Yongle, only in red.

At least he'll be carrying a book (most likely).

@Kupe Navigator would you rather have a Sejong in his mid 20s, or a Sejong in his early 50s?

Sejong died when he was 52 years old. And during his latter years he left running of country to then crown-prince Munjong because he was so sick. Unfortunately Sejong didn't do much in 50's.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

You could argue that Korea has always been primarily portrayed as a Joeson civ with either the Hwacha, Turtle Ship, and Seowon appearing in all the games they've been in.

Korea is more than just these three. Why didn't Devs do proper research and move AWAY from these stereotypes if they really wanted Seondok? They went half way and created an abomination that isn't Silla or Joseon.

In fact Korea in civ 6 as Seondok is a lot like Wu Zetian in civ 5- didn't feel much like Wu's China but just general China.

 

[IvoryPavane]

Korea is more than just these three. Why didn't Devs do proper research and move AWAY from these stereotypes if they really wanted Seondok? They went half way and created an abomination that isn't Silla or Joseon.

In fact Korea in civ 6 as Seondok is a lot like Wu Zetian in civ 5- didn't feel much like Wu's China but just general China.

This is fairly common though right?

Im Scottish and I doubt Robert the Bruce enjoyed 18 holes but it’s just part of representing a broader cross section of a Civilisation?

 

[Kupe Navigator]

This is fairly common though right?

Im Scottish and I doubt Robert the Bruce enjoyed 18 holes but it’s just part of representing a broader cross section of a Civilisation?

The thing is apart from LA every thing from UA to even fricken palace model in a capital is from Joseon Dynasty.
Seowon- created in mid Joseon period as result of development in Confucian teaching ( forget about what it says in Civilpedia- rubbish that one)
Hwacha- there are many variants but most popular one was created by Munjong of Joseon ( yes son of Sejong the great)- he was said to be military need who took great interest in developing Joseon military.
Palace model- most likely based on Gyeongbokgung palace - main palace of Joseon Dynasty.
They could have removed Hwacha and use Silla warrior for UU.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I just hope Sejong looks distinct enough. The design will likely be the one they used in Civ 5, but that's very close to what Yongle looks like. The hat, the facial hair, the clothes and the dragon pattern (centre and upper sleeves) are all very similar to Yongle, only in red.

At least he'll be carrying a book (most likely).

@Kupe Navigator would you rather have a Sejong in his mid 20s, or a Sejong in his early 50s?

I expect Sejong to look older, like his Civ 5 depiction, but a younger looking Sejong would be interesting.

The thing is apart from LA every thing from UA to even fricken palace model in a capital is from Joseon Dynasty.
Seowon- created in mid Joseon period as result of development in Confucian teaching ( forget about what it says in Civilpedia- rubbish that one)
Hwacha- there are many variants but most popular one was created by Munjong of Joseon ( yes son of Sejong the great)- he was said to be military need who took great interest in developing Joseon military.
Palace model- most likely based on Gyeongbokgung palace - main palace of Joseon Dynasty.
They could have removed Hwacha and use Silla warrior for UE.

And everything about Scotland is after their union with England, except Robert the Bruce.
And everything about Germany (currently) is HRE except the U-Boat.

You do realize that Civ 5 was the only depiction of Korea as strictly Joeson? In Civ 3 and Civ 4 their leader was Wang Kon, a Goryeo leader, with Joseon uniques too.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I expect Sejong to look older, like his Civ 5 depiction, but a younger looking Sejong would be interesting

Fun fact about Sejong is that he probably did NOT look like his popular depictions

This is IMAGINED portrait created during 20th century. ( most official portraits of Joseon kings are lost in fire unfortunately)
He was said to be fat and suffering from diabetes because he was stuck reading a lot and hated exercising. Plus he was great lover of beef- so much that during funeral of his father Taejong he left in his will to allow Sejong to eat meat ( as usually during funeral it was forbidden to eat meat).

And everything about Scotland is after their union

At least it isn't just on one single Dynasty like Korea.

And everything about Germany (currently) is HRE except the U-Boat.

Yeah but at least they have their UU which isn't HRE. That is the point. They are diverse enough to cover most of German history. Imagine everything in Germany- from UD to even UU is HRE- they have Landsknecht instead of U-Boat- but they are lead by Bismarck.
How odd would it be?
And they have HRE palace to boot.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

At least it isn't just on one single Dynasty like Korea.

Yeah but at least they have their UU which isn't HRE. That is the point. They are diverse enough to cover most of German history. Imagine everything in Germany- from UD to even UU is HRE- they have Landsknecht instead of U-Boat- but they are lead by Bismarck.
How odd would it be?
And they have HRE palace to boot.

I thought the point was (mostly) each civ at least has one component that doesn't make it one era/dynasty? Civ 6 Korea with Seondok is no different. They didn't want to strictly make Korea a Joeson civ so that's why they chose a Silla queen.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

They didn't want to strictly make Korea a Joeson civ so that's why they chose a Silla queen

Why then everything else is from Joseon period but the leader? From UD to UU... couldn't they have found UD or UU from Silla?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Why then everything else is from Joseon period but the leader? From UD to UU... couldn't they have found UD or UU from Silla?

Ask the devs. Me and everyone else ask the same thing about Scotland.
When Seondeok was pretty much confirmed to be the leader a lot of people were expecting the Hwarang to be a UU, which it could have easily been.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

When Seondeok was pretty much confirmed to be the leader a lot of people were expecting the Hwarang to be a UU, which it could have easily been.

Which is why Korea under Seondok sucks and Sejong fits much MUCH better...

 

[SecretWeapon]

No further comment

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Is the pack out?

 

[Kupe Navigator]

No further comment

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Is the pack out?

Not untill first look is here.

 

[Kjimmet]

The thing is apart from LA every thing from UA to even fricken palace model in a capital is from Joseon Dynasty.
Seowon- created in mid Joseon period as result of development in Confucian teaching ( forget about what it says in Civilpedia- rubbish that one)
Hwacha- there are many variants but most popular one was created by Munjong of Joseon ( yes son of Sejong the great)- he was said to be military need who took great interest in developing Joseon military.
Palace model- most likely based on Gyeongbokgung palace - main palace of Joseon Dynasty.
They could have removed Hwacha and use Silla warrior for UU.

I think civs should take inspiration from as many timeperiods possible. If I were to make Finland as a civ, I would give it ability inspired of general Finnish mindset (Sisu), a modern unique unit (jäger), ancient unique tile improvenment (sauna) and if the leader is Mannerheim, I would give him ability inspired of the Finnish resiliance during Winter War (Spirit of Winter War).
This combination forms a certain idea of "Finland" but it's not perfect. Our rich oral tradition is not repesented at all (rune singing, there is no wikipedia article of it, so here is an example of what it sounds like) nor is our history under Swedish rule or under Russian. What I've formed is a pop-history version of Finland, similar to Korea in civ. The version of Finland I created is more likely to be added than version of Finland that includes rune singing, because outside of Finland nobody really knows what it is.
Korea is known by its hwachas and seowons so it's repesented by those in game. Firaxis could make Korea inspired by more obscure units or infrastructure (by Western standards), but people would begun saying "Where hwacha? This isn't the Korea I know." So, Firaxis is basically trapped with Joseon, like how they are trapped with ancient Persia.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Korea is known by its hwachas and seowons so it's repesented by those in game. Firaxis could make Korea inspired by more obscure units or infrastructure (by Western standards), but people would begun saying "Where hwacha? This isn't the Korea I know." So, Firaxis is basically trapped with Joseon, like how they are trapped with ancient Persia

They could've kept one and replaced another. Right now it just seems like Korea is stuck with head of Silla in a body of Joseon. It just doesn't feel right to play a Silla queen in a clearly nation that is Joseon.

 

[AntSou]

because he was stuck reading a lot and hated exercising

King Sejong the Great returns to Sid Meier's Civilization...

Spoiler :

...this time with double the Sejong!

It took him six years, but he's finally here. He's rather slow...

 

[IvoryPavane]

Gosh, maybe it’s because it’s our first time represented (outside of some sort of Celtic bloc) but I’m just happy Scotland is there haha

 

[SammyKhalifa]

They could've kept one and replaced another. Right now it just seems like Korea is stuck with head of Silla in a body of Joseon. It just doesn't feel right to play a Silla queen in a clearly nation that is Joseon.

Eh. Abraham Lincoln builds fighter planes. Somebody's going to be unhappy no matter what they do. There has to be a point where building a unique everything for everyone everywhere just isn't worth it. Maybe they should split the baby in half and go back to civs that have no differences except for color.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

King Sejong the Great returns to Sid Meier's Civilization...

Spoiler :

View attachment 651290

...this time with double the Sejong!

Amusingly this actually is closer to what he actually looked like than official portrait.
He was basically hard working cultural/science nerd as king.
Loved reading/ studying, hated exercising, loved meat.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Eh. Abraham Lincoln builds fighter planes. Somebody's going to be unhappy no matter what they do. There has to be a point where building a unique everything for everyone everywhere just isn't worth it. Maybe they should split the baby in half and go back to civs that have no differences except for color.

Quirky anachronisms are part of what makes Civ Civ.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Abraham Lincoln builds fighter planes.

But he still led same nation- I.E US.
Silla and Joseon is different as Rome is to Italy.