[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[blackcatatonic]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread for a while as I've been on a Civ break.

Sad about Venice also kind of annoyed that they waited this long to add a city-state that really should have been there from the start! An Italy Civ that could peacefully annex city-states would have been so great. Oh well. I still hope they'll include some form of this mechanic with a Civ though as I think it would be a great idea.

I would say Byzantium and Portugal are my bets for next month's DLC now, but honestly I'm not sure that they will add two returning Civs in the same pack. Portugal definitely seems likely if Venice is replacing Lisbon. But I can't think of another likely European Civ that is also a snazzy never-before-seen pick.... Gauls? Ireland?

...you know Venice being a city-state doesn't totally preclude another Italian City-State Civ...

...Genoa, anyone?

 

[Zaarin]

Sad about Venice also kind of annoyed that they waited this long to add a city-state that really should have been there from the start! An Italy Civ that could peacefully annex city-states would have been so great. Oh well. I still hope they'll include some form of this mechanic with a Civ though as I think it would be a great idea.

I don't associate Venice with peaceful expansion.

I would say Byzantium and Portugal are my bets for next month's DLC now, but honestly I'm not sure that they will add two returning Civs in the same pack. Portugal definitely seems likely if Venice is replacing Lisbon. But I can't think of another likely European Civ that is also a snazzy never-before-seen pick.... Gauls? Ireland?

While I admit I tend to think of Byzantium as European and the Ottomans as Middle Eastern simply because of who made up the ruling class and where their "core territories" so to speak lay, both straddled Europe and the Middle East. I'm inclined to expect Byzantium + Assyria.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

While I admit I tend to think of Byzantium as European and the Ottomans as Middle Eastern simply because of who made up the ruling class and where their "core territories" so to speak lay, both straddled Europe and the Middle East. I'm inclined to expect Byzantium + Assyria.

I think Byzantium will probably get in pack 3.

The question is will they make it a "Middle East" with Assyria or European with Portugal? Whichever one is out would likely be in another pack by itself.
I'm thinking Portugal would be easier to sell by itself.

Alternatively if it is Portugal and Byzantines, then Babylon would sell well alone.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I don't associate Venice with peaceful expansion.

I mean Venice had the ability to peacefully acquire city-states in Civ V, so it wouldn't have been a total stretch.

That said, that wasn't very well-phrased on my part. What I wanted and was hoping for was an Italy Civ - not Venice - that had the ability to build an empire from city-states. That looks to be off the table now but I'd really like to see a mechanic like that used for another Civ.

While I admit I tend to think of Byzantium as European and the Ottomans as Middle Eastern simply because of who made up the ruling class and where their "core territories" so to speak lay, both straddled Europe and the Middle East. I'm inclined to expect Byzantium + Assyria.

My original speculation was based around the idea of a Mediterranean regional theme for pack 3, maybe with a Mediterranean map (if this is one of the packs that is adding a map - I think it might be?), so I was thinking Byzantium and Italy would sit well together. Portugal and Byzantium maybe less well so. But I'd be surprised/disappointed to see Assyria over Babylon (I mean I think we could have both, but I don't see it happening in NFP...)

I think Byzantium will probably get in pack 3.

The question is will they make it a "Middle East" with Assyria or European with Portugal? Whichever one is out would likely be in another pack by itself.
I'm thinking Portugal would be easier to sell by itself.

Alternatively if it is Portugal and Byzantines, then Babylon would sell well alone.

I thought Portugal and Babylon would be the two best candidates for the stand-alone packs. Which could still be the case. I am expecting Byzantium, definitely, and most likely in Pack 3 but I don't know who they'll put with them.

 

[Zaarin]

But I'd be surprised/disappointed to see Assyria over Babylon

This has been discussed quite a bit in this thread, but Assyria has more cultural and geographic distance from Sumer than Babylon does, plus Babylon works pretty well as a city-state. Also in the long run Assyria had a bigger impact on history than Babylon did (not to underplay Babylon's achievements): it was the world's first large empire, it lasted longer, and it still has a legacy in ethnic Assyrians that Babylon doesn't have. I'd love to get both (plus Elam, Hittites, Judah, Hurria/Urartu...), but if I had to pick only one I'd pick Assyria.

I was thinking Byzantium and Italy would sit well together.

Not after the Fourth Crusade they don't.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I mean Venice had the ability to peacefully acquire city-states in Civ V, so it wouldn't have been a total stretch.

That said, that wasn't very well-phrased on my part. What I wanted and was hoping for was an Italy Civ - not Venice - that had the ability to build an empire from city-states. That looks to be off the table now but I'd really like to see a mechanic like that used for another Civ.

I mean if they wanted to make a city-state civ about building an empire from acquiring city-states they could use Babylon.

This has been discussed quite a bit in this thread, but Assyria has more cultural and geographic distance from Sumer than Babylon does, plus Babylon works pretty well as a city-state. Also in the long run Assyria had a bigger impact on history than Babylon did (not to underplay Babylon's achievements): it was the world's first large empire, it lasted longer, and it still has a legacy in ethnic Assyrians that Babylon doesn't have. I'd love to get both (plus Elam, Hittites, Judah, Hurria/Urartu...), but if I had to pick only one I'd pick Assyria.

I agree. I would love to have both but at this point either one will be fine as long as we have one. I slightly prefer Assyria too, for the reasons that you mentioned, but I would not be disappointed if Babylon gets in or vice versa.

 

[Zaarin]

I agree. I would love to have both but at this point either one will be fine as long as we have one. I slightly prefer Assyria too, for the reasons that you mentioned, but I would not be disappointed if Babylon gets in or vice versa.

There is one and only one reason I'd slightly prefer Babylon: I'd rather they wait on Assyria until they can make it properly magnificent instead of the budget-saving shortcuts they're using right now. That they'd invest more money in a hypothetical second pass may be wishful thinking on my part, though...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There is one and only one reason I'd slightly prefer Babylon: I'd rather they wait on Assyria until they can make it properly magnificent instead of the budget-saving shortcuts they're using right now. That they'd invest more money in a hypothetical second pass may be wishful thinking on my part, though...

Are they using shortcuts in the designing of the civs though?
I have no problem with the re-used animations, and I'm assuming you also mean the shortened Sean Bean intros, but I'm not sure what else is considered budget-saving?

 

[Zaarin]

Are they using shortcuts in the designing of the civs though?
I have no problem with the re-used animations, and I'm assuming you also mean the shortened Sean Bean intros, but I'm not sure what else is considered budget-saving?

I'm mostly referring to the reused animations, yeah. It bothers me because it makes the leaders less unique, which has always been a strong selling point of Civ6 IMO. I don't really care about the phoned in intros--none of them has been particularly good anyway and I never listen to them after the first time. The civ designs themselves have been...Well, I love the Maya, I hate Gran Colombia, and Ethiopia is great but just bonkers OP. (I've been pleased to note that no expense has been spared in the music, though. There hasn't been a single bad theme in NFP so far.) But yeah, mostly I just want Sennacherib or Ashurbanipal or Tiglath-Pileser III to be absolutely magnificent--as for Hammurabi*, meh, he can use Cyrus's animations. That's fine.

*I take it for granted that Babylon would get Hammurabi even though I'd prefer the return of Nebuchadrezzar II.

 

[Xandinho]

If I were to bet I would say that Pack 3 is Byzantine and Portugal. Babylon will come later, due to I still don't believe they are going to abandon Babylon, they have a strong tendency to keep some traditions - see Gandhi and Montezuma all the time, also Shaka.

 

[WillowBrook]

Okay, tin-foil hat theory:
An Italian civ of some sort has been in the running since the base game, and has just (within the past few months or so) been pushed to a second season pass.

Here's the story (liberally sprinkled with speculation - don't ask for evidence, please):

Genoa was found in the base game files, indicating it was a possible base civ. Therefore, they didn't design any Italian city states for the base game.

When selecting the city states for the Vikings DLC, they didn't choose any Italian city states because Italy in some form was on the short list for R&F. But it was cut again.

For GS, a decision was between Sweden and Italy (in some form) for a major civ slot; once Sweden was settled on, they decided an Italian city state best replaced Stockholm. Hence we finally get Bologna, our first Italian city state.

Then NFP gets the green light. Italy in some form is back on the table as a possible major civ. So they don't add any more Italian city states in NFP's first set of new city states.

Then NFP sells well enough that the powers that be say to hold back a couple of popular picks for a second season pass. Italy is once again pushed. But the designers know that Italian city states are eminently worthy of representation, so they add Venice in the next set of NFP City states, as Italy (in some form) now won't come for another year or so.

 

[blackcatatonic]

If I were to bet I would say that Pack 3 is Byzantine and Portugal. Babylon will come later, due to I still don't believe they are going to abandon Babylon, they have a strong tendency to keep some traditions - see Gandhi and Montezuma all the time, also Shaka.

This is why I am expecting Babylon over Assyria.

 

[AntSou]

Surely yes, the Venice in the livestream doesn't seem to next to a coast - the visual of the city doesn't have a canal/harbor in the middle. So less points for Portugal and more points for Byzantium at this stage.

Venice may not have spawned randomly. Since they wanted to show it to us, they likely added it manually. In which case the Coast bias doesn't matter here.

 

[Codeword Iroquois]

Not after the Fourth Crusade they don't.

Darn Enrico.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm mostly referring to the reused animations, yeah. It bothers me because it makes the leaders less unique, which has always been a strong selling point of Civ6 IMO. I don't really care about the phoned in intros--none of them has been particularly good anyway and I never listen to them after the first time. The civ designs themselves have been...Well, I love the Maya, I hate Gran Colombia, and Ethiopia is great but just bonkers OP. (I've been pleased to note that no expense has been spared in the music, though. There hasn't been a single bad theme in NFP so far.) But yeah, mostly I just want Sennacherib or Ashurbanipal or Tiglath-Pileser III to be absolutely magnificent--as for Hammurabi*, meh, he can use Cyrus's animations. That's fine.

*I take it for granted that Babylon would get Hammurabi even though I'd prefer the return of Nebuchadrezzar II.

Ok. The reused animations have never been a bother to me and I personally would have never known unless some people pointed it out.

I think any Assyrian leader could still be magnificient even if they reused only some of Gilgamesh's moves, considering not al are old.

I would also prefer Hammurabi over Nebuchadnezzar II if we do get Babylon. The fact that the Code of Laws is the first civic in the game screams "Code of Hammurabi" ability and he would probably get to start the game with it.

Okay, tin-foil hat theory:
An Italian civ of some sort has been in the running since the base game, and has just (within the past few months or so) been pushed to a second season pass.

Here's the story (liberally sprinkled with speculation - don't ask for evidence, please):

Genoa was found in the base game files, indicating it was a possible base civ. Therefore, they didn't design any Italian city states for the base game.

When selecting the city states for the Vikings DLC, they didn't choose any Italian city states because Italy in some form was on the short list for R&F. But it was cut again.

For GS, a decision was between Sweden and Italy (in some form) for a major civ slot; once Sweden was settled on, they decided an Italian city state best replaced Stockholm. Hence we finally get Bologna, our first Italian city state.

Then NFP gets the green light. Italy in some form is back on the table as a possible major civ. So they don't add any more Italian city states in NFP's first set of new city states.

Then NFP sells well enough that the powers that be say to hold back a couple of popular picks for a second season pass. Italy is once again pushed. But the designers know that Italian city states are eminently worthy of representation, so they add Venice in the next set of NFP City states, as Italy (in some form) now won't come for another year or so.

Waiting for someone from Firaxis to like this post.
Of course even if someone does, they also like to troll us.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

If they are holding civs back for another Pack, don't expect to see all three of Portugal/Byzantines/Babylon in NFP. So far, they've been portioning out series regular civs and NFP already has the Maya (and effectively elevated Ethiopia to series regular status). The series regulars are kind of like the anchors of content pushes.

That's why I don't expect to see both the Byzantines and Portugal in NFP03, by the way. I think they will do one series regular civ to anchor the DLC and one other civ (new or at least not series regular). That's how the Maya/Gran Colombia Pack worked for NFP01.

 

[Potworny]

I'd happily wait a year for my beloved Portugal if that meant getting Bulgaria (or something similarly surprising) in this pass and another pass in the future.

Also, have the devs ever reached this level of messing with us, you know, considering Venice and things like this? :

Spoiler :

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'd happily wait a year for my beloved Portugal if that meant getting Bulgaria (or something similarly surprising) in this pass and another pass in the future.

Also, have the devs ever reached this level of messing with us, you know, considering Venice and things like this? :

Spoiler :

View attachment 567580

Maybe I should have made it more clear. I wanted someone from Firaxis to like the post I quoted.

 

[Red Adept]

I'd happily wait a year for my beloved Portugal if that meant getting Bulgaria (or something similarly surprising) in this pass and another pass in the future.

Also, have the devs ever reached this level of messing with us, you know, considering Venice and things like this? :

Spoiler :

View attachment 567580

It's a beautiful thing. It's a gift from Eris, it is. It's "Call me a taxi" level.

 

[AntSou]

Maybe I should have made it more clear. I wanted someone from Firaxis to like the post I quoted.

I think they're trolling you.