[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Patine]

I can see what you mean, and good point about Bannockburn being weak too but it feels like Scotland or Netherlands would both invalidate using their previous leaders if a new one was added... Since Mapuche, Cree, Zulu and Georgia don't seem like they have obvious alternatives.... Mongols or Korea seem likely and of the two I'd bank on Mongolia.

Georgia, the oldest nation and civilization of predominantly "White people," (Caucasians ) in the world has no alternative leaders? Hmm...

 

[Patine]

I’m surprised that we haven’t seen much mention of the Philippines: they’ve got two great leader options in Lapu Lapu or Corazón Aquino, they’d fill a part of Southeast Asia much less crowded than Vietnam, or we could perhaps see both, seeing as they could be considered a Oceania entry as well since Tagalog has language relations to Polynesian languages

To be fair, while I would definitely love to see the Philippines as a civ, Lapu Lapu was a petty chieftain of a tiny known for murdering Magellan because didn't understand the Philippine power structure and assumed Lapu Lapu was a feudal vassal of the ruler of Manila, who'd given Magellan hospitality, and Magellan assumed a European feudal contract bound Lapu Lapu the same. Corazon Aquino is just as crooked and corrupt as every other Philippine President in my lifetime. I would suggest Emilio Aguinaldo instead of either, by far.

 

[Patine]

I don't know: he was kind of a big deal.

The man who committed the biggest deliberate genocide of civilians in recorded history - dwarfing Stalin or Hitler in numbers - makes waves in history, for sure.

 

[Zaarin]

Also, certain major cities do appear in the Arabia geography twice (Tripoli)

Oh, is Tripoli on there twice, too? I was thinking of Aleppo/Halab.

 

[Patine]

Oh, is Tripoli on there twice, too? I was thinking of Aleppo/Halab.

There are two separate and distinct Tripoli's in the Arab world - one in Libya, and one in Lebanon.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

To be fair, while I would definitely love to see the Philippines as a civ, Lapu Lapu was a petty chieftain of a tiny known for murdering Magellan because didn't understand the Philippine power structure and assumed Lapu Lapu was a feudal vassal of the ruler of Manila, who'd given Magellan hospitality, and Magellan assumed a European feudal contract bound Lapu Lapu the same. Corazon Aquino is just as crooked and corrupt as every other Philippine President in my lifetime. I would suggest Emilio Aguinaldo instead of either, by far.

did Aguinaldo lead when the Phillippines were free?

I don’t know about anyone else here but Lapu Lapu is well known and i was under the impression that he was considered a national hero in the Phillippines for fighting off Magellan, much like Lautaro.

Fair point regarding Aquino. I thought she would be a good fit as she helped get out of the dictatorship and was famous for human rights legislation

 

[Thenewwwguy]

The man who committed the biggest deliberate genocide of civilians in recorded history - dwarfing Stalin or Hitler in numbers - makes waves in history, for sure.

also helped to improve china in a number of ways...

 

[Jkchart]

I see people talking about having Philippine representation and my God YES. If we can have some of these other post-colonial nations, Philippines would be super cool to have, and give us another country from the Oceania (kind of) region.

 

[Jkchart]

Scotland was an edge case for inclusion in the first case, though; they hardly need a second leader.

To spite you it will be Mary Queen of Scots and she will also lead France (jk jk, if they really wanted to spite you, they'd add another Post-Colonial nation)

EDIT Moderator, can you please combine my two posts? I forgot to do that again and am really bad at figuring out how to combine.

 

[Leucarum]

Georgia, the oldest nation and civilization of predominantly "White people," (Caucasians ) in the world has no alternative leaders? Hmm...

Touché, I meant particularly well known alternative leaders.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I want to consider random reach civs, in the lane of mapuche or even Gran Colombia to an extent, who you wouldn’t expect to be in the game AT ALL.

Personal hopes for me would be Costa Rica (maybe a big environmental bonus with clean energy and stuff), the Ainu (would be interesting as an indigenous civ from asia), Switzerland (peace oriented + diplo?), Nabateans, Croatia, the Inuit and/or Salish, Swahili, Great Zimbabwe or even Indian sub-civs like the Mughals or Chola.

I don’t expect any of them to show up but given that so far we’ve only considered mainstream picks, i’m interested to hear what interesting ideas people have for unlikely, but interesting civs that go in the spirit of Civ 6’s many unexpected entries.

 

[Zaarin]

There are two separate and distinct Tripoli's in the Arab world - one in Libya, and one in Lebanon.

Ah. But only one of them on Arabia's city list. Aleppo is literally on there twice.

To spite you it will be Mary Queen of Scots and she will also lead France

I can think of worse things. I just don't think it's necessary.

Touché, I meant particularly well known alternative leaders.

Let me introduce you to David the Builder. I don't think Georgia needs another leader and Tamar is awesome, but if Georgia did get another leader David the Builder is the prime candidate.

Personal hopes for me would be Costa Rica (maybe a big environmental bonus with clean energy and stuff), the Ainu (would be interesting as an indigenous civ from asia), Switzerland (peace oriented + diplo?), Nabateans, Croatia, the Inuit and/or Salish, Swahili, Great Zimbabwe or even Indian sub-civs like the Mughals or Chola.

The Nabataeans are cool, but they lack leaders. Enter Zenobia of Palmyra. I'd love to see the Chola, but I wouldn't expect them in Civ6--maybe in Civ7? The Inuit are one of those groups people ask for a lot that make absolutely zero sense as a civilization. They have no cities. They have no leaders. Do you know why there are no tundra-focused civs*? Because you can't build a civilization in the tundra. The only thing that would make the Salish somewhat compelling is that they have a potential leader in Chief Seattle, but in every other way their northern neighbors--any of them: Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian, Nuu-Chah-Nuulth, Kwakwaka'wakw--would be better choices. In particular, the Tlingit and Haida are generally considered the most sophisticated and elaborate of the PNW culture zone. However, as much as they're near the top of my Civ6 Native American civ wishlist, I don't think we'll be seeing them. There are a number of good reasons to believe that the Cree were originally intended to be the Haida**. Perhaps the Haida requested not to be included. Perhaps Firaxis couldn't find the leader they were looking for. Perhaps Firaxis couldn't find a native speaker willing to perform the role. Whatever the reason, I don't expect they'll try again.

*What Civ calls Tundra is strictly speaking taiga. Most of what Civ calls Snow is actually tundra. You can build a civilization in the taiga--but not a very strong one. Even Russia's Tundra bonuses are kind of silly, given that all the major Russian cities are far from the tundra or even the taiga.
**The Cree's colors scream PNW. The Cree's civ icon is a Haida Raven. The Cree city art looks distinctly PNW. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, there are some files left over in the game referencing the Haida.

 

[CivLuvah]

The man who committed the biggest deliberate genocide of civilians in recorded history - dwarfing Stalin or Hitler in numbers - makes waves in history, for sure.

Are you sure you're not confusing Kublai Khan with Mao? Or are you basing that on some pop culture source?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

If it's truly the case that the alt-leader is for an RNF civ and not, for instance, using RNF mechanics, then it is probably a Mongol. The other civs in the expansion don't strike me as profound choices for alt-leaders. I'm still hoping for a Pharaoh though.

 

[bene_legionary]

I see another European Civ: perhaps the Byzantines or Austria? Maybe Kievian Rus or someone less known like Croatia?

Zagreb is a city of Hungary ingame. It's not farfetched that it's part of Hungary, but I doubt it will become a proper civ. Changing the city names won't be hard though.

How would you deal with Ottomans and the Byzantines sharing the same capital on a TSL map? put the Ottomans in Thrace or in Ankara? Also Hattusa's next to where Ankara is...

To add on to the capital-sharing what about Vatican City and Rome? TSL Maps are going to be even more cramped... We already have Mexico City and Tenochtitlan in the same place though.

 

[CivLuvah]

did Aguinaldo lead when the Phillippines were free?

I don’t know about anyone else here but Lapu Lapu is well known and i was under the impression that he was considered a national hero in the Phillippines for fighting off Magellan, much like Lautaro.

Fair point regarding Aquino. I thought she would be a good fit as she helped get out of the dictatorship and was famous for human rights legislation

Aguinaldo is considered the first Filipino president, but he wasn't the leader of our Revolution against Spain. That would go to either Andres Bonifacio, leader of the Katipunan who instigated the Revolution, or to Jose Rizal, its intellectual progenitor

Lapu-Lapu is still regarded as a national hero - by the fact that he was there when Magellan was killed, albeit far away from the actual battle. He is more of a symbol of our first defiance against Spain, rather than as an actual participant.

Ditto on Aquino as well. I personally have to look into why people consider her as a not-so-good president. Or maybe that is clouded by the fact that (again) she was a symbol for the restoration of our democracy (which is sadly being eroded away)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

This forum has a strange habit of groupthink for certain content. Kublai Khan is one in a long line. I'd prefer a different alt leader.

For me it's more about the possibility that he would come with a Vietnam Civ. I'm not sure what other R&F leader would come with a Civ that I would really want.
Cree maybe with another Native American but I'm sure Firaxis has decided to social distance themselves from that Civ.

 

[Patine]

Let me introduce you to David the Builder. I don't think Georgia needs another leader and Tamar is awesome, but if Georgia did get another leader David the Builder is the prime candidate.

A small political party in Post-Soviet Georgia literally evokes David the Builder as the "party ideological inspiration," (like many political parties around greatly admired, but dead people - Chavez and Maduro even famously did such).

 

[DeutschDachs]

I want to consider random reach civs, in the lane of mapuche or even Gran Colombia to an extent, who you wouldn’t expect to be in the game AT ALL.

Personal hopes for me would be Costa Rica (maybe a big environmental bonus with clean energy and stuff), the Ainu (would be interesting as an indigenous civ from asia), Switzerland (peace oriented + diplo?), Nabateans, Croatia, the Inuit and/or Salish, Swahili, Great Zimbabwe or even Indian sub-civs like the Mughals or Chola.

I don’t expect any of them to show up but given that so far we’ve only considered mainstream picks, i’m interested to hear what interesting ideas people have for unlikely, but interesting civs that go in the spirit of Civ 6’s many unexpected entries.

Vlad Tepes of Wallachia or Charles IV of Bohemia for my reaches

 

[Patine]

Are you sure you're not confusing Kublai Khan with Mao? Or are you basing that on some pop culture source?

"The Years the Rice-Paddies were Watered with Blood," was the translated titled of a book I read in sociology class in college (which you'd NEVER know was needed course to be a SOCIAL worker ). I can't remember the author's name - I think the surname was Zhu (not very helpful, I know). It was not just based on Imperial Chinese records, but archaeological studies in sites of former villages utterly destroyed by Kublai Khan's invasion of the Southern Song, as well as the Mongols' own recorded boasts, and witness who were from (and returned to) Vietnam, Japan, Thailand, Burma, and such.