[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Zaarin]

They are both in the game and have been in multiple iterations so your point is?

They're both badly designed and display no knowledge whatsoever of ancient history. Phoenicia is the only well-designed, flavorful ancient civ in the game, with an honorable mention for Persia, which we might call "good enough" if we ignore its poor depiction of Cyrus.

 

[GenyaArikado]

I saw in the news that the developers of that game recently revealed that she is supposed to be 9’6”, the same height as Goliath of Gath, the biblical giant.

Does that mean your comment was a tacit request for the inclusion of a Philistine civ in a Final Frontier pass?

More like Transylvania. Sorry

 

[PhoenicianGold]

They're both badly designed and display no knowledge whatsoever of ancient history. Phoenicia is the only well-designed, flavorful ancient civ in the game, with an honorable mention for Persia, which we might call "good enough" if we ignore its poor depiction of Cyrus.

Oh you hate Babylon's design too? What a cruel irony for you.

Funny enough, I actually was expecting Babylon to look something like this, which is why I never wanted it in VI to begin with.

 

[InsidiousMage]

They're both badly designed and display no knowledge whatsoever of ancient history. Phoenicia is the only well-designed, flavorful ancient civ in the game, with an honorable mention for Persia, which we might call "good enough" if we ignore its poor depiction of Cyrus.

Ah, okay.

I agree. If nothing else, it would make their product more unique, make it stand out against other rote history games like Humankind.

Kind of hoping games like Humankind and Old World push Firaxis to take some more chances and push the game in some interesting directions.

 

[Zaarin]

Oh you hate Babylon's design too? What a cruel irony for you.

Indeed. It's replaced Sumer(ia) as my least favorite civ design in the game.

Funny enough, I actually was expecting Babylon to look something like this, which is why I never wanted it in VI to begin with.

TBH I was kind of afraid the devs would pull something like this, too, which is why I favored a culture/builder-focused Assyria. Considering I recognized early on that NFP was going to be "just the standards," I probably should have expected a flavorless "uber science Babylon." It's a shame considering a number of civs have broken away from their traditional depictions. I was hoping Babylon (and Korea) could do the same.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Aboriginal Australians seem like an obvious non-Polynesian civ.

As others have mentioned it would be pretty hard to do.
If we have to make a civ with using creative liberties I'd prefer the Inuit honestly, but I'm not too sold on the idea of them either.

Indeed. It's replaced Sumer(ia) as my least favorite civ design in the game.


TBH I was kind of afraid the devs would pull something like this, too, which is why I favored a culture/builder-focused Assyria. Considering I recognized early on that NFP was going to be "just the standards," I probably should have expected a flavorless "uber science Babylon." It's a shame considering a number of civs have broken away from their traditional depictions. I was hoping Babylon (and Korea) could do the same.

I actually prefer the overall design of Babylon to Sumeria.

The Palgum is the only thing I'm slightly disappointed for Babylon whereas for Sumeria they are lacking a civ UA and have 2 leader abilities.
Also no Bowman UU which is a step in the right direction, even if they got a generic unit all Ancient Mesopotamian civilizations used.

Though to rectify the situation I wouldn't mind them giving us a proper Mesopotamia civilization with Assyria.

 

[sweetbrown89]

I didn't realize Macedon and Scotland wasn't on the chart either. That being said I'm not quite sure I'd call Nubia an offshoot of I presume Egypt, like the others. At least I don't see any attributes of Egypt from past games getting put into Nubia unlike Scotland, whose cities have been Celtic city names, and Macedon, who obviously had the leader for Greece the past 5 games. Though I could be wrong and Egypt has had Nubian cities in the past.

That being said you could possibly make the argument that Nubia could be a "replacement" for Morocco. Of course it would somewhat be a stretch like the Shoshone and the Mapuche,. Both are located in North Africa and deal with gold/desert playstyle. At least it makes more sense than Georgia.

I'm still not 100% convinced until we see who the civ is in March though.


If we want the Pacific represented why don't we go with the Haida/Tlingit which would kill two birds with one stone being Pacific Coast/North America?

They even said on the Maori livestream that they looked over all the different Polynesian cultures and decided that the Maori would be the best group, out of all of them, to be in the game. That's why I'm not expecting any others from Oceania.


I don't know if that really matters to anyone else in the long run.

Nubia and Egypt have a longstanding history of interaction, much akin to a relationship like Austria-Hungary. Definitely not the same, but obviously overlapped.

One thing that people get wrong is that none of the Civs really have a need to fill in a gameplay niche so much as a cultural one.

Just using Occam’s Razor, Nubia has been more of a nuanced request from fans, as Cleopatra wasn’t ethnically a native Leader.

 

[Jeppetto]

The Palgum is the only thing I'm slightly disappointed for Babylon

The Palgum is basically supposed to be Fertile Crescent ability. I presume they wanted to represent that aspect in some way and figured we don't have Watermill replacement yet.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The Palgum is basically supposed to be Fertile Crescent ability. I presume they wanted to represent that aspect in some way and figured we don't have Watermill replacement yet.

Yeah I know. But we also don't have a library replacement either that could have held his Code of Laws.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

The Palgum is basically supposed to be Fertile Crescent ability. I presume they wanted to represent that aspect in some way and figured we don't have Watermill replacement yet.

It's actually the most Babylonian thing in Civ 6's Babylon. Even then, it and the Sabum Kittibum are basically borrowed from the Assyrians, if the Civilopedia is right. I actually like Hammurabi's Ability, although, I wish he had Code of Laws unlocked from the start of the game. That would fit him a lot more.

 

[sweetbrown89]

In one of the glut of the pre-release interviews the devs did for the game. Can't locate which one precisely.



Well you're talking about missing content as rationale for continuing more content, but I think that's a tricky road to go into. Really, there is no way they'll satisfy the entire fanbase to the point where no one thinks "oh so-and-so is missing!" - so I'm not really moved by that sort of argument. Even if Portugal doesn't come in March I won't be convinced that there'll be more content. Of course, I could be wrong, but I think it's fallacious to think that Firaxis has some spreadsheet set-up and that there are all these civ or city-state buckets that HAVE to be filled for the game to be complete. Also, I cannot see a city-state pack being something they'd put up for sale. The Vikings DLC is among the worst-reviewed DLC - regular fans just don't want to pay for that stuff.

My reasoning on why NFP is probably the end is this:

It seems clear to me that NFP has been a challenge for the team. It started right as the pandemic began and for whatever reason, they've had to cut corners on essentially everything except for the music. Those on this forum know that I am a generous defender of the devs to the disgruntled or whining contingent here, but let's be honest with ourselves: NFP lacks polish. It's been rough. I am appreciative of the NFP, but the bittersweet thing about all the content we've gotten is that it would have looked better and played better if it were released earlier in the game's development cycle when the full team was focused on the game. So with all that said, I can't really see them continuing down this path much longer.

I’m not sure if you’re addressing me or not. All I’ve been pointing out is that the design method over 6 games just is increasing the number of niches present and rotating them in or out.

Whether or not they have the impetus to meet all of the niches isn’t so important (or discernible), but they obviously use “safe” bets and slowly creep around adding more as fan interest shifts.

Countries like Australia and Canada may not have pleased more hardcore fans of history, but for the general gamer, it just added recognizable and marketable Civs for people to buy. It’s a reminder that contemporary history is also history.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I actually like Hammurabi's Ability, although, I wish he had Code of Laws unlocked from the start of the game. That would fit him a lot more.

I'm honestly surprised they didn't let him get Code of Laws from the start of the game.

Maybe a free civic along with the gaining the full technologies from eurekas would have been too much.

 

[Zaarin]

I actually prefer the overall design of Babylon to Sumeria.

The Palgum is the only thing I'm slightly disappointed for Babylon whereas for Sumeria they are lacking a civ UA and have 2 leader abilities.
Also no Bowman UU which is a step in the right direction, even if they got a generic unit all Ancient Mesopotamian civilizations used.

I'm not thrilled with the Palgum, but it's the only part of Babylon's design I actually like as it's the most Babylonian thing about the design.

Yeah I know. But we also don't have a library replacement either that could have held his Code of Laws.

My choice for Babylon would either have been a Tablet House replacing the Library or an Observatory, whether as a unique district or as a Library or University replacement. It would have made more sense for Babylon than the Maya IMO; give the Maya a Mayan Pyramid.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I'm not thrilled with the Palgum, but it's the only part of Babylon's design I actually like as it's the most Babylonian thing about the design.

It's like Sumeria as well: Only the UU and UI are the ones in the Civilization to actually accurately represent it.

P.S. I actually like the Ziggurat.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It's like Sumeria as well: Only the UU and UI are the ones in the Civilization to actually accurately represent it.

I'm also fine with the War Cart and Ziggurat as well as Gilgamesh as the leader. However both of the abilities should have been condensed into his leader ability, while the civ ability should be something different.

Hopefully that gets looked at in April as one of the ones being reworked.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I'm also fine with the War Cart and Ziggurat as well as Gilgamesh as the leader. However both of the abilities should have been condensed into his leader ability, while the civ ability should be something different.

Hopefully that gets looked at in April as one of the ones being reworked.

Once again, they should take inspiration from the Civilizations Expanded mod. Sumeria's Ability is much more associated with the Fertile Crescent.

 

[Zaarin]

It's like Sumeria as well: Only the UU and UI are the ones in the Civilization to actually accurately represent it.

The War Cart is nice. The art and implementation of the ziggurat are lacking. In fact, I think Sumeria might be a compelling case for a unique City Center, since that's what a ziggurat effectively was...

I'm also fine with the War Cart and Ziggurat as well as Gilgamesh as the leader.

I think there are better options than Gilgamesh, but I don't object to him per se. However, I think his visual depiction is disappointing and not particularly Sumerian. He looks much more Assyrian (makes sense, both the Epic and the statue are Assyrian), and even then Assyrians didn't go bare-chested like that.

 

[8housesofelixir]

It's like Sumeria as well: Only the UU and UI are the ones in the Civilization to actually accurately represent it.

Sumerian CUA and LUA are based on Epic of Gilgamesh, which is kind of solid on its own (in terms of Gilgamesh, that is, not in terms of Sumeria).

The Babylonian CUA & LUA, on the other hand, are clever but baseless designs that can be applied to any other scientific (full Eureka) or generalist (free building) civs. For instance, I can relocate "full Eureka" to Scotland and "free building" to Romans, and it will not cause any major thematic issue whatsoever.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Sumerian CUA and LUA are based on Epic of Gilgamesh, which is kind of solid on its own (in terms of Gilgamesh, that is, not in terms of Sumeria).

The Babylonian CUA & LUA, on the other hand, are clever but baseless designs that can be applied to any other scientific (full Eureka) or generalist (free building) civs.

I meant to represent it well. But you're right, they are good, just need more polishing. Sumeria's Ability is okay, as well as Gilgamesh's, but as @Alexander's Hetaroi said, we can mesh those together and put a very different Sumerian Ability.
I'm fine with Hammurabi's Ability so long as he gets the Code of Laws Civic for free. Babylon's... I really don't know. The modders can do something about that, I guess.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

For instance, I can relocate "full Eureka" to Scotland and "free building" to Romans, and it will not cause any major thematic issue whatsoever.

Well considering Rome is already a "free building in the city center" civ that's a very accurate statement.