[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[PhoenicianGold]

What about Argentina?

Yeah I don't really get why everyone is still pushing for Argentina when so much of their uniqueness is already covered by the Mapuche and Gran Colombia (malon raiders and llaneros are basically gauchos twice over). The only thing I see Argentina adding to the game would be tango music, and music alone isn't enough to justify it I think.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Yeah I don't really get why everyone is still pushing for Argentina when so much of their uniqueness is already covered by the Mapuche and Gran Colombia. The only thing I see Argentina adding to the game would be tango music, and music alone isn't enough to justify it I think.

Alright, what about Uruguay?

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Alright, what about Uruguay?

I think the Tupi-Guarani spectrum is the only way to go for a fifth South American civ.

But I also think South America is fairly complete as it is and would rather the effort be put into fleshing out North America and Africa.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I think the Tupi-Guarani spectrum is the only way to go for a fifth South American civ.

But I also think South America is fairly complete as it is and would rather the effort be put into fleshing out North America and Africa.

True. We have the vast space of nothingness of Central and West North America, and North Africa, Central Africa-Okay, most of Africa is missing, including Madagascar.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Long live Dom Satan!

If they bring back agendas hopefully in Civ 7 he likes people that recruit Great People like him.

Or they just make him different and give him something to do with the Fatherland Volunteers.

Yeah I don't really get why everyone is still pushing for Argentina when so much of their uniqueness is already covered by the Mapuche and Gran Colombia (malon raiders and llaneros are basically gauchos twice over). The only thing I see Argentina adding to the game would be tango music, and music alone isn't enough to justify it I think.

That's my sentiments as well along with Gran Colombia getting the generic hacienda improvement, which to me is representative of all Spanish speaking Latin American countries.
I was always expecting/hoping one of them would come, but not both.

 

[Zaarin]

Do you mean the Good and the Large Nose?

Are you allowed to be king of France without a large nose?

If they bring back agendas hopefully in Civ 7 he likes people that recruit Great People like him.

Hopefully they just give him horns and a tail next time to make his intended role more obvious.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

That's my sentiments as well along with Gran Colombia getting the generic hacienda improvement, which to me is representative of all Spanish speaking Latin American countries.
I was always expecting/hoping one of them would come, but not both.

And in all fairness, Simon-Bolivar-the-civ is the quintessential Spanish colonial civ which speaks for all Latin American independence.

I think VII would have to shift focus away from empires and toward cultures for the Muisca and Argentina to make sense in lieu of GC and the Mapuche. As far as I see it, both of those are just stronger choices under the current "meritocracy."

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Hopefully they just give him horns and a tail next time to make his intended role more obvious.

Don't forget the clothes-on-fire.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Hopefully they just give him horns and a tail next time to make his intended role more obvious.

Well now that dual leaders are a thing, watch them have Maria I leading Brazil and Portugal in the base game of Civ 7. At least you wouldn't have deal with him at all.

And in all fairness, Simon-Bolivar-the-civ is the quintessential Spanish colonial civ which speaks for all Latin American independence.

I think VII would have to shift focus away from empires and toward cultures for the Muisca and Argentina to make sense in lieu of GC and the Mapuche. As far as I see it, both of those are just stronger choices under the current "meritocracy."

I'd argue that they have as much merits of probably getting in as the Mapuche and Gran Colombia did in Civ 6.

Jose de San Martin is similar to Simon Bolivar and could reasonably pass for an Argentinian leader, along with Eva Peron, who both never officially lead Argentina.

The Muisca is considered one of the four advanced Pre-Colombian nations of the Americas, only behind the Aztec, Inca and the Maya, who are already in the game.

 

[ManoftheHour333]

Don't you mean "What Nau?"
Can't believe no one else made that joke.


How about the birthplace of the Renaissance in culture and Science?


Yes please. Though the city-state buying can go into an Italian civ whether it be a Risorgimento or Italic League ability.
I'd rather her get something else like sending her children to another civ you are allied with as another "delegation" that provides both culture and diplo favor per turn for the both of you.

Oh hell ya-that'd be a perfect ability for Vittorio Emanuele II. And if Italy gets a unique commerce hub with some emphasis on GPP or giving extra GW slots?) they could have some great synergy with gaining a lot of gold and then buying city states and/or envoys. And with a culturally-focussed UA (I.e. Renassance Italy inspired ) the civ would be something new and really fun to play. So far we have economic/religion (Mali) and economic/science (Portugal)...Italy would be the perfect civ for that economic/culture.

Well now that dual leaders are a thing, watch them have Maria I leading Brazil and Portugal in the base game of Civ 7. At least you wouldn't have deal with him at all. .

...or they can use Pedro I for something that makes even more sense. Only 3 Portuguese monarchs lived through the period when Brazil was elevated to Kingdom status. And goddamnit I love Pedro's origin story of literally refusing the Portuguese crown and separating out the countries. Why would he do it? For what reason? He was a madlad who changed history and made Brazil's independence borderline a meme. He's also the only one to lead both after Brazil's official "independence". Would be a cool story to bring to civ for sure...but is that enough to trump Pedro II's renaissance-man persona? II was pen-pals with the greatest thinkers of the 19th century. Went on a rant but Brazilian history is cool and is often glossed over as "rainforest civ".

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

...or they can use Pedro I for something that makes even more sense. Only 3 Portuguese monarchs lived through the period when Brazil was elevated to Kingdom status. And goddamnit I love Pedro's origin story of literally refusing the Portuguese crown and separating out the countries. Why would he do it? For what reason? He was a madlad who changed history and made Brazil's independence borderline a meme. He's also the only one to lead both after Brazil's official "independence". Would be a cool story to bring to civ for sure...but is that enough to trump Pedro II's renaissance-man persona? II was pen-pals with the greatest thinkers of the 19th century. Went on a rant but Brazilian history is cool and is often glossed over as "rainforest civ".

You mean: Pedro de Alcântara Francisco Antônio João Carlos Xavier de Paula Miguel Rafael Joaquim José Gonzaga Pascoal Cipriano Serafim de Bragança e Bourbon, or Pedro I, for short.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Oh hell ya-that'd be a perfect ability for Vittorio Emanuele II. And if Italy gets a unique commerce hub with some emphasis on GPP or giving extra GW slots?) they could have some great synergy with gaining a lot of gold and then buying city states and/or envoys. And with a culturally-focussed UA (I.e. Renassance Italy inspired ) the civ would be something new and really fun to play. So far we have economic/religion (Mali) and economic/science (Portugal)...Italy would be the perfect civ for that economic/culture.

Still think the best infrastructure for Italy would be a unique workshop that produces culture, along with GWAM and Great Scientist points. If not that then an Opera House UB that comes earlier than the Broadcast center it replaces and can hold 2 Great works of music and another Great work of writing slot.

If another civ were to get a unique CH, I'd want it to be Siam as a Floating Market.

 

[untitledjuan]

I think the Tupi-Guarani spectrum is the only way to go for a fifth South American civ.

But I also think South America is fairly complete as it is and would rather the effort be put into fleshing out North America and Africa.

I agree with you, perhaps the only South American or Central American civs that could work at this point of the game are the Tupi or the Arawak. But I would rather see the Ojibwe, the Navajo, the Cherokee or even the Iroquois returning

 

[ManoftheHour333]

I'm a fierce advocate against Napoleon for France. Sincerely, he did some incredible things, but I see him more as a bloody dictator than a ruler we ought to look upon. Do you know that he's responsible for the fact that French are waaaay more prone to suffer from varicose veins because of him? Varicoses were a reason to be exempted to serve in Napoleonic armies, and so much soldiers died for Napoleon that it completely shift the genetic inheritage of French people. We often talk how Gengis Khan is the father of so much of the population, but Napoleon managed to screw the genes of a whole country.

Moreover, if we ought to have a second leader for France, I'd rather have a republican one rather than another monarchist (even if he's an imperial one). Sure, the Third Republic had her share on the Scramble of Africa, but as much as Victoria, so it's not that bad. Jules Ferry could be a good one, especially a scientific leader for France, to show his school and education reforms quite fundamental for contemporary France. But, look at the wonderful sideburns.

But if we want a militaristic leader for France, Louis XIV could work for both the cultural and militaristic aspect. Sure, he ruined the country... But didn't all kings did that? And Louis IX (Saint Louis) could be used as a military/religious leader, if you really want a militaristic leader. But... Please, not Napoléon (except if his ability is what I thought: make Great Scientists and Great Engineers act as Great Generals too).

I've never heard of the varicose veins things for sure. And Napoleon is a controversial figure for sure and I know his dictator-like persona and actions aren't the most positive...but he did bring France back to the forefront of European affairs and crushed 2 of the largest powers on the continent. He as a tactical madman and an efficient ruler. Efficient doesn't always equal positive for the country, but it's hard to say that he wasn't a major figure in French history. More imporantly, he's got name recognition and character that's hard to beat...and civ has to retain some kind of popularity with the masses lol-not just history geeks XD.

On a side note though, Louis XIV would also be a WONDERFUL option. Quintesetially French, and the personification of Ancien Regime lol. While he's not as famously militaristic as Napoleon, I could still see him as a militiristic leader with the War of SS and all.

 

[untitledjuan]

Well now that dual leaders are a thing, watch them have Maria I leading Brazil and Portugal in the base game of Civ 7. At least you wouldn't have deal with him at all.


I'd argue that they have as much merits of probably getting in as the Mapuche and Gran Colombia did in Civ 6.

Jose de San Martin is similar to Simon Bolivar and could reasonably pass for an Argentinian leader, along with Eva Peron, who both never officially lead Argentina.

The Muisca is considered one of the four advanced Pre-Colombian nations of the Americas, only behind the Aztec, Inca and the Maya, who are already in the game.

As some people have already said here, the only way to have (Gran) Colombia, Argentina, the Mapuche and the Muisca is alternating them to represent native and "modern" South America. Colombia overlaps to much with the Muisca (to some extent they could have the same capital, just with the Spanish and Muisca name interchanged, like Ottomans and Byzantium) and the Mapuche overlap with Argentina. Something similar happens with the Aztec and Mexico (and even the Iroquois and the USA in a TSL map). The current setup, with Gran Colombia and the Mapuche as civs and Argentina and the Muisca as city-states can work the other way around for a future game and then switch back again for Civ VIII (that is if by that point they don't already have enough Civ slots to include them all)

 

[ManoftheHour333]

Still think the best infrastructure for Italy would be a unique workshop that produces culture, along with GWAM and Great Scientist points. If not that then an Opera House UB that comes earlier than the Broadcast center it replaces and can hold 2 Great works of music and another Great work of writing slot.

If another civ were to get a unique CH, I'd want it to be Siam as a Floating Market.

I could see that workshop and it would fit Italy given the whole Da Vinci business...and we need a workshop replacement. The opera house could also be a cool thing too and would fit the cultural focus of the civ right nicely! BUT at the same time, Italy has to have some kind of economic bonus if the LUA is all about buying city states. Plus, the Renaissance city states' finances have to be represented somehow since assuming Italy is added, we wouldn't be getting a Venice/Genoa civ.

So we write this out theoretically:

LUA: City State buying/ diplomacy (Risorigmento period)
UA: Purely Economic bonuses
UB: Culturally-focused (Workshop or Opera house)
UU: Ironclad or crossbowman

Tbh, I'd rather see the UA be a GPP/culture focused one as this is the biggest attribute of Italian history and could be used to best represent the Renaissance. I just think that would make more thematic sense...that would leave the UB/UD to help Italy generate more money and given that the market and bank already have replacements but there is no second CH replacement...that's why I'm thinking CH so hard. HOWEVER I could also see a Theatre Square too and that might be the best option as a middle ground. Make it cheaper and give some extra GPP or something...just spitballing. In that case we could keep the above design which retains the awkward economic UA...but it *could* work.


On the SE asian thing...I just would rather not get Siam as we have Vietnam and Khmer...I'd rather the attention go to northern India (Mughal leader for India or Timurids) for Asia. I'd like to hear more about these markets though as I have never heard of Siam/Burma ever having these sorts of things. Well I don't doubt they HAD them...but I don't know how big of a known thing this was considering I couldn't find it on google lol.

You mean: Pedro de Alcântara Francisco Antônio João Carlos Xavier de Paula Miguel Rafael Joaquim José Gonzaga Pascoal Cipriano Serafim de Bragança e Bourbon, or Pedro I, for short.

YES. One of, if not my favorite, of jack's videos. He did Pedro II but it isn't as snappy lol

 

[BuchiTaton]

NORTH AMERICA:
24.7 million km2
579 million people

SOUTH AMERICA:
17.8 million km2
422 million people

Then their population density are 23.4 vs 23.7 almost the same. Already on game North America have 5 civs (Canada, America, Cree, Aztec and Maya) while South America have 4 civs (Colombia, Inca, Mapuche and Brazil).

So on terms of size NA is bigger but already have 5 civs vs the 4 SA civs. In term of population are equal. On terms of representation Canada+USA native population allways was smaller than both the rest of NA or SA.

On terms of diversity:
- If NA have the Great Prairies SA have the Pampas
- If NA have the Rockies have the Andes
- If NA have the South West deserts SA have the Pacific Coast desert
- If NA have Pacific North West SA have the Patagonia
- If NA have the Appalachian Forest SA have the Amazonas

Why only USA need their native civ if Brazil is of a similar size, and by the way the Brazilian natives are on a way worse situation than American ones, is not better to look to them?

Maybe the Pueblo peoples would not want to have their language on game, but instead Firaxis could put some money on the program to revive the Mochica language with the addition of a Chimu civ.
https://www.rumbosdelperu.com/cultu...resa-publican-grabaciones-del-idioma-mochica/

Or what about the Garifuna civ for a Caribbean+Central America civ with their Kalinago(Carib+Taino)+African heritage.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I could see that workshop and it would fit Italy given the whole Da Vinci business...and we need a workshop replacement. The opera house could also be a cool thing too and would fit the cultural focus of the civ right nicely! BUT at the same time, Italy has to have some kind of economic bonus if the LUA is all about buying city states. Plus, the Renaissance city states' finances have to be represented somehow since assuming Italy is added, we wouldn't be getting a Venice/Genoa civ.

So we write this out theoretically:

LUA: City State buying/ diplomacy (Risorigmento period)
UA: Purely Economic bonuses
UB: Culturally-focused (Workshop or Opera house)
UU: Ironclad or crossbowman

Tbh, I'd rather see the UA be a GPP/culture focused one as this is the biggest attribute of Italian history and could be used to best represent the Renaissance. I just think that would make more thematic sense...that would leave the UB/UD to help Italy generate more money and given that the market and bank already have replacements but there is no second CH replacement...that's why I'm thinking CH so hard. HOWEVER I could also see a Theatre Square too and that might be the best option as a middle ground. Make it cheaper and give some extra GPP or something...just spitballing. In that case we could keep the above design which retains the awkward economic UA...but it *could* work.

I agree that economic ability would be needed and can be part of a Renaissance ability. The Birthplace of the Renaissance was Florence, home to the powerful Medici banking family and I could see that ability be equally cultural, and maybe some minor scientific bonuses as well.

And is there any reason why a unique ironclad for Italy, other than there's not a unique counterpart yet?

On the SE asian thing...I just would rather not get Siam as we have Vietnam and Khmer...I'd rather the attention go to northern India (Mughal leader for India or Timurids) for Asia. I'd like to hear more about these markets though as I have never heard of Siam/Burma ever having these sorts of things. Well I don't doubt they HAD them...but I don't know how big of a known thing this was considering I couldn't find it on google lol.

I agree that Siam would be unlikely. I hadn't heard of it before until recently though it's the UD for sukritact's Siam mod and the emblematic quarter for Siamese in Humankind.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=884825964

 

[8housesofelixir]

On the SE asian thing...I'd like to hear more about these markets though as I have never heard of Siam/Burma ever having these sorts of things. Well I don't doubt they HAD them...but I don't know how big of a known thing this was considering I couldn't find it on google lol.

I hadn't heard of it before until recently though it's the UD for sukritact's Siam mod and the emblematic quarter for Siamese in Humankind.

The Floating/Water Market is something very common in SAE, especially in Thailand. I'm East Asian, Thailand is one of the top tourist destination in the East Asian tourism market, and everyone I know who visited Thailand had spent at least one afternoon in a floating market in Bangkok.

 

[berlin88]

Charles Martel led Francia, not France, and if we ever get Francia I think it's safe to say that Charlemagne is far and away the obvious choice. Jean d'Arc never led anything; she didn't even lead the army--she was more like a mascot. Louis XIV is a good "big personality" leader, and I wouldn't mind seeing him return--though TBH Henri IV and Francis I are at the top of my wishlist for France in Civ7. De Gaulle is too modern for my tastes.

Charles Martel may have led Francia as opposed to France, but without him, there might not be a France.

I tend to favor the civ games using a monarch to represent France, as that is the system of government most people in New France were familiar with. Most French colonies in the USA and Canada were populated by families who left prior to the revolution. My own ancestors left in the 1600`s, so they never knew anything but the monarchy.

Napoleon was important, but he wasn't around long enough to outweigh the contributions of the Frank's and the Bourbon dynasty to France.