[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[blok]

Maybe a poll would work if they limited it to certain options? Perhaps a poll for each era made up of reasonable suggestions and then the devs decide a few out of those? Although I do agree with what is being said here, not too keen on seeing Mexico and Belarus in civ.

I'd personally like for mainland SEA to get the Africa treatment that Civ 6 did. That is have one civ/leader represented from a specific era.
Classical Era-Vietnam
Medieval Era-Khmer
Renaissance Era- Burma
Industrial Era- Siam

This is really interesting, seems like a good idea. I just don't know how much representation is too much representation. Africa should have tons of civilizations, but SEA is a smaller region with less history. Maybe we could see that for the Americas.
Ancient- Olmecs
Classical- Maya
Medieval- Inuit
Renaissance- Aztec
Industrial- Sioux/maybe Iroquois
Modern- America

This makes Mexico really crowded, but the Olmecs would be fun and I can't really think of what the Americas had around that time besides them. Also, many of these civilizations spanned multiple eras or are more than just one group (Inuit) but I tried to squish it down into a tidy list. I think the Athabaskans would be a good substitute for Inuit, and I still want the Navajo somewhere in here, perhaps over the Sioux.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Stacked Southeast Asia:

Burma (Medieval), Siam (Industrial), Khmer (Classical to Medieval), Lan Xang (Renaissance), Vietnam (Literally any era. Ancient to Medieval or Contemporary with Ho Chi Minh), Champa (Classical to Medieval), Indonesia (Medieval)

Maybe a poll would work if they limited it to certain options? Perhaps a poll for each era made up of reasonable suggestions and then the devs decide a few out of those? Although I do agree with what is being said here, not too keen on seeing Mexico and Belarus in civ.

or they could disregard bad choices like Smash did when it had a new character poll.

I think the big commonalities between both Casual and Historical audiences are Inuits, Ireland, Afghanistan, Burma, and Haiti. Then Casual audiences generally also want basically any civ with a recognizable modern name — Argentina, Philippines, Finland, Morocco, etc. Some of these are actually good choices but stuff I’ve seen suggested fairly often like Argentina I’d like to pass on until they’re a replacement for Gran Colombia. Finally, those of us who are really into history seem to constantly ask for Hittites, Assyria, Chola, Swahili, Tonga, Mughals, Timurids, Mutapa, Oyó/Benín/Hausa, etc. over and over again.

i think a civ poll would end up with a winner like Burma, Phillippines, Ireland or Haiti.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Ah, I see. Menelik II is more of an Industrial modernizer, in my eyes.

I'm pretty sure Shaka takes the role of "Industrial Era" leader, despite the Zulu never reaching proper European Industrialization. I based it more on the time period in which they lived instead of the technology advances that their people possessed, and Shaka lived when Industrialization was starting in the western world. I guess Menelik was ruling when the Second wave of Industriaization happened but that seems closer to when the Modern Era in a civ game starts, in my opinion.
Classical-Amanitore
Medieval-Mansa Musa
Renaissance- Mvemba a Nzinga
Industrial-Shaka
Modern- Menelik II

This is really interesting, seems like a good idea. I just don't know how much representation is too much representation. Africa should have tons of civilizations, but SEA is a smaller region with less history. Maybe we could see that for the Americas.
Ancient- Olmecs
Classical- Maya
Medieval- Inuit
Renaissance- Aztec
Industrial- Sioux/maybe Iroquois
Modern- America

This makes Mexico really crowded, but the Olmecs would be fun and I can't really think of what the Americas had around that time besides them. Also, many of these civilizations spanned multiple eras or are more than just one group (Inuit) but I tried to squish it down into a tidy list. I think the Athabaskans would be a good substitute for Inuit, and I still want the Navajo somewhere in here, perhaps over the Sioux.

I mean we can replace Inuit with Aztec in the Medieval and put the Iroquois in the Renaissance.
We can theoretically put Navajo in modern with a code talker UU, but the good Navajo leaders would be before the Modern Era.

I think post-colonial civs, like America, should be a separate category. Same for South America considering there is no Inca on the list either.
Though I'd be personally fine with putting Navajo in Industrial over Sioux if we want to keep America for the Modern Era.

 

[Zaarin]

Ancient- Olmecs
Classical- Maya
Medieval- Inuit
Renaissance- Aztec
Industrial- Sioux/maybe Iroquois
Modern- America

Olmecs are too unknown to build a civ out of, as has been discussed extensively here. Also Medieval options outside of Mesoamerica are pretty much nonexistent so it would have to be someone like the Mixtec or Zapotec. Industrial is also well after the Iroquois had been relegated to reservations in Canada and the US. The Inuit would be difficult to make a civ out of without gross misrepresentation/stereotyping of their culture, too.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I'd personally like for mainland SEA to get the Africa treatment that Civ 6 did. That is have one civ/leader represented from one specific era.
Classical Era-Vietnam
Medieval Era-Khmer
Renaissance Era- Burma
Industrial Era- Siam

It would be perfect.

or they could disregard bad choices like Smash did when it had a new character poll.

I think the big commonalities between both Casual and Historical audiences are Inuits, Ireland, Afghanistan, Burma, and Haiti. Then Casual audiences generally also want basically any civ with a recognizable modern name — Argentina, Philippines, Finland, Morocco, etc. Some of these are actually good choices but stuff I’ve seen suggested fairly often like Argentina I’d like to pass on until they’re a replacement for Gran Colombia. Finally, those of us who are really into history seem to constantly ask for Hittites, Assyria, Chola, Swahili, Tonga, Mughals, Timurids, Mutapa, Oyó/Benín/Hausa, etc. over and over again.

i think a civ poll would end up with a winner like Burma, Phillippines, Ireland or Haiti.

Hmmm if I were going by general popularity of mods, Inuit would be far ahead of any of those, closely followed by Finland.

Then probably Philippines and Argentina, around the same level of popularity as Ireland. (none of which feel "large/imperial" enough to be civs, at least under the current design standards, imo).

And then somewhere further down the spectrum Burma, followed closely by Afghanistan and Haiti.

Morocco I can't really rank either way but I think it's definitely more requested than Haiti or Afghanistan.

As for the rest, I think the only civs that get any notable notoriety are Assyria and the Mughals/Timurids. And for some reason the Ashanti. All of the others see varying degrees of attention (much as I wish most of them were more viable considerations).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

.

i think a civ poll would end up with a winner like Burma, Phillippines, Ireland or Haiti.

To be fair a Haitian civ (while unlikely and not my choice) might be pretty interesting.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Industrial Siam led by Rama IV could be quite nice. A leader that managed to modernise his kingsom so quickly and successfully that European colonial empires could not really use their preferred excuse of "we're invading here in the name of Progress to do you a service and 'civilise' your folk" to invade Siam

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Industrial Siam led by Rama IV could be quite nice. A leader that managed to modernise his kingsom so quickly and successfully that European colonial empires could not really use their preferred excuse of "we're invading here in the name of Progress to do you a service and 'civilise' your folk" to invade Siam

With an unique CH (Floating Market).

 

[TeddyMain]

I feel like Firaxis should do a poll to see which Civs are the most wanted, so they can do them for Civ 7. Not saying they will, just saying they should.

Expect a lot of meme picks at the top should that be the case. I don't know how well a vanilla lineup with Sealand and Florida would be received here

 

[Zaarin]

Expect a lot of meme picks at the top should that be the case. I don't know how well a vanilla lineup with Sealand and Florida would be received here

It would be received with a hard pass from me.

 

[Jkchart]

It would be received with a hard pass from me.

“Noooooooooo! You can’t just add Florida as a full civ to the game as it was never a country or recognizable culture in the first place!”

“Haha marsh happiness bonus go brrrrrrrr”

 

[Zaarin]

“Noooooooooo! You can’t just add Florida as a full civ to the game as it was never a country or recognizable culture in the first place!”

“Haha marsh happiness bonus go brrrrrrrr”

As someone with the misfortune to live in Florida its bonuses should probably be to be overpopulated and to get Gold from Coast tiles and double Tourism for Seaside Resorts. Its UI is the Theme Park replacing the Entertainment District and Sea World replacing the Water Park, and its UU is Grandma Riding an Alligator who will hit you with her walker or cause an accident with her reckless driving. Baʿl yirʿeš šamēm, I want to get away from the cities and move to the mountains...

 

[Jkchart]

As someone with the misfortune to live in Florida its bonuses should probably be to be overpopulated and to get Gold from Coast tiles and double Tourism for Seaside Resorts. Its UI is the Theme Park replacing the Entertainment District and Sea World replacing the Water Park, and its UU is Grandma Riding an Alligator who will hit you with her walker or cause an accident with her reckless driving. Baʿl yirʿeš šamēm, I want to get away from the cities and move to the mountains...

I 100% see all of this i was just trying to find something ridiculous to call a bonus for Florida

 

[Zaarin]

I 100% see all of this i was just trying to find something ridiculous to call a bonus for Florida

Yeah, we removed all of our marshes except a little remnant of the Everglades. Bad for tourism.

 

[SMcM]

No, they shouldn't, or else Civ7's roster will be made up 100% of modern countries because that's who the casual audience will vote for. Say goodbye to interesting historical civs and say hello to Bosnia, Montenegro, Chile, and the Central African Republic.

I mean there was a Kingdom of Bosnia in the late middle ages, and a Prince-Bishopric of Montenegro going back to 16th century, so not the most modern countries really. Now Macedonia and Kosovo, those really example of modern inventions. Slovenia and Slovakia have not existed as historically independent states either.

Also I don't mind the odd colonial country, though I can see that Australia+Canada+Gran Colombia+Brazil is quite a lot (exempting America of course, the inclusion of which is a given).

Have on game Tibetans, Manchus or Hmongs should not be a problem then, because if Firaxis have no fear of what CCP would think you can just have Chinese civ like you can have USA and Haudenosaunee on the same game. China would still heve the lovely great wall like Ainu civ would not take the japanese samurai.

I'm slightly struggling to understand this, so I'm not sure if I am agreeing with you or not, but I am almost certain that Chinese hostility precludes Tibet. Manchus I'm not so sure, but could be a problem.

Also unimportant point, but I still don't understand why everyone here says 'Haudenosaunee' when its so much longer than 'Iroquois'? Is the important distinction between the confederacy and the broader language group? In the context of Civilization they have always been referred to as 'Iroquois', are people wanting them to change that?

 

[millansoft]

Argentina should be included, I read some arguments that if we follow them as a rule, then shouldnt be included as a civilization, Canada, USA; Australia, Brazil, etc...

 

[Zaarin]

I mean there was a Kingdom of Bosnia in the late middle ages, and a Prince-Bishopric of Montenegro going back to 16th century, so not the most modern countries really. Now Macedonia and Kosovo, those really example of modern inventions. Slovenia and Slovakia have not existed as historically independent states either.

Yes, but the votes would not be for the Medieval kingdom/prince-bishopric. Plus the Kingdom of Bosnia and the Prince-Bishopric of Montenegro still aren't very high on my top 500 list.

Also I don't mind the odd colonial country, though I can see that Australia+Canada+Gran Colombia+Brazil is quite a lot (exempting America of course, the inclusion of which is a given).

I've accepted that they will be foisted upon us, but if we could limit it to a cap of three per game (including the USA) that would be nice. Also if they could be less meme-driven than Australia and Canada, but I guess that too is inevitable. It's a shame because I think something actually interesting could have been done with Canada.

Also unimportant point, but I still don't understand why everyone here says 'Haudenosaunee' when its so much longer than 'Iroquois'? Is the important distinction between the confederacy and the broader language group? In the context of Civilization they have always been referred to as 'Iroquois', are people wanting them to change that?

The name Iroquois is well-established in academia, but the people themselves have been trying to encourage the use of Haudenosaunee. I think a lot of people have been inspired by Humankind's and AoE3DE's use of Haudenosaunee. I suspect the next time the civ returns to Civ (and it will) they'll be called Haudenosaunee.

Argentina should be included, I read some arguments that if we follow them as a rule, then shouldnt be included as a civilization, Canada, USA; Australia, Brazil, etc...

Yes, please--to excluding Canada, USA, Australia, Brazil, and Gran Colombia.

 

[TeddyMain]

“Noooooooooo! You can’t just add Florida as a full civ to the game as it was never a country or recognizable culture in the first place!”

“Haha marsh happiness bonus go brrrrrrrr”

"What do you mean you don't want the civ whose cultural highpoint was some guy throwing a gator through a Wendy's drive-thru window!?"

 

[Zaarin]

"What do you mean you don't want the civ whose cultural highpoint was some guy throwing a gator through a Wendy's drive-thru window!?"

I thought it was the couple who insisted Jesus had sold them cocaine and was going to take them away on a spaceship--and had a live alligator in their trunk. On which note, we've found our leader: Florida Man.

 

[Menocchio]

I actually do not mind Canada being in Civilisation, if only because it offers an outlet for a "tundra" civilisation that is not named Russia - so that Russia in future games can finally move away from those stereotypes. For God's sake, it took until this most recent iteration for the developers to realise that St. Basil's Cathedral is not Moscow's medieval kremlin, and that neither were built in the 20th century Soviet Union.