[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Aussie_Lurker]

The one question that I can't help but ask at this point........Software Development Kit? Surely its time to let the modding community off the leash.

 

[oSiyeza]

The one question that I can't help but ask at this point........Software Development Kit? Surely its time to let the modding community off the leash.

I think it is more reasonable to expect more improvements in the world builder. And if we are lucky some new modding options. But I doubt a major change would happen here while the season pass is still running.

Also, modding projects in a monthly changing game will be very difficult to handle. But I doubt that is a concern for FXS, they probably see it as as an added benefit of the model, as it will keep them in full control of the game for an entire year.

 

[ehecatzin]

These alternative personas are just a way of giving us the impression that we are playing alternative leaders. It is understandable, since alternative leaders take a lot of work, but an alternative persona not so much. I particularly find the idea interesting.

And It's not like It's taking anything from the other leaders/civs, as long as the alternate personas are kept as bonus or even free content I think they are a fine addition.

And I'm also on the camp that it seems the season pass idea might be something they could push for a second season, so old favorites might still be off limits...Byzantium, Babylon, Protugal, Venice, any could be it.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

I'm really hoping the alt leader is for either Scotland or Netherlands. I feel both those civs are held back by awful leader bonuses. Robert's can be strong... If you can even activate it. You might as well be playing without a leader bonus at all. Wilhelmina's bonus is both boring and woefully underpowered. There's a reason she was the first leader voted out in the leader ability elimination thread.

 

[acluewithout]

My hot take.

• Splitting the Baby (or how to have pandemics without annoying everyone). This whole “optional modes” is a pretty clever idea. The big tension with a third expansion was that, on the one hand, the game still has gaps that need to be filled in and needs more content to be rounded out, but on the other hand, there’s a feeling the game was getting too complicated and some of the stuff people wanted or that FXS might want to do could be decisive (eg plagues, more random events). Indeed, some of the stuff they’d already done was unwanted by some people, eg loyalty and disasters, and you often here people asking to be able to toggle those things off. This new “optional mode” basically lets FXS have their cake and eat it to. They can introduce more content, and indeed be more experimental, and if people think it’s too complicated or too fantasy then don’t worry about it, you can just switch it off. I mean, they can now introduce eg global pandemics and all the people that want that in the game will be happy, and all those that really don’t will be happy too. Indeed, I hope they go back and make loyalty and disasters a bit more optional given how much some people don’t like those mechanics.

• Long term support. I think the benefit of the optional modes is that it also gives FXS a way to add content beyond New Frontiers if they’re minded to. They can always just drop some leaders / Civ and a new mode. And no one can ever really complain, because it’s always just optional.

• Personas, Leaders, Civs. I think this is basically the end of the whole “FXS would rather make entire Civs than just Alt Leaders”. In the end, it really just comes down to what people want and what’s fun v effort. Yeah, generally whole Civs are better use of resources, but people always want all the things so there’s going to be room for some Alt Leaders. Personas look fun too. Just a bit of spice on leaders that were maybe a bit yawn. Very happy with the whole leader persona Civ approach.

• Third Expansion. I’m guessing we’ll get via modes what we would have otherwise got via Third Expansion mechanics, more or less. At least, I really hope so. I suspect each pack / release will have its own mini-theme. The first seems to be disasters / apocalypse. Hopefully we’ll get one around colonialism (with Portugal) and Ideology.

• Base game content. I do hope FXS do add some new base game content separate to modes. I really think the game needs more governors that unlock later in the game and needs the return of Ideological pressure. And then there’s a bunch of little things I’d really like to see - a fifth dedication each era rather than just four, spies having an ambassador option, more unique religious units, unit gaps. It’s all fairly small stuff, but I hope FXS do just fill in some of the base game gaps.

• DLL and Modding Support. I’ve been of the view people need to be patient about modding and the DLL for ages. But I do think the lack of DLL is starting to become more of an issue. The game is really never going to be that good without better mod support around the DLL. I get there may be commercial reasons for not wanting to go down the route of releasing the DLL, but it’s going to be really crap if FXS don’t. I really do hope they still have a plan to release something, and the delay is just because they are still adding large amounts of complicated content. But let’s be honest, not fully supporting modding is going to put Civ VI at a severe disadvantage versus other 4X games and even previous versions on Civ.

• Speculating. More generally, I think I’m really done speculating (notwithstanding my comments above). Terra Incognito has proven to be a continent of surprises. I really don’t have any sense of where FXS might go from here, good or bad. But at least we have a fairly solid road map now, which is very welcome. Cross fingers this all works out well. Probably will. I mean, this is basically the slow roll out of a Third Expansion. I think that does have the potential to overall give us a better game at the trade off of perhaps a bit more delay to everyone’s gratification. Overall, it’s a good direction of travel.

 

[Zaarin]

But their writing (Linear A, and its probable descendant Eteo-Cretan) is still not deciphered and I don't want Minos/Pasiphae/etc to speak in ancient Greek. There's evidence their language wasn't Indo-European.

The language of the Minoans was almost certainly not Indo-European or Semitic.

I'm less convinced by Portugal, Babylon and Italy. My gut instinct says that Brazil, Sumeria and Rome are their respective analogs in this game for now...

TBH if we don't get one of Babylon or Assyria, I'm gonna riot.

 

[AntSou]

Simple, he is not Dutch and is and has never been considered a great "Dutch" leader of the Netherlands.
Doing so would insult me greatly to be honest and I doubt Firaxis would do that. Ruling over a region as part of your empire doesn't make you a good choice as a leader for that civilization.
Willem even though born in Nassau, Germany was the face and leader of the dutch revolt against the Spanish.

What about William III as alt for Netherlands/England?

 

[pokiehl]

I think many of you have missed it, but Anton said there are no plans to release the DLL at this time.

Modding is where modding is right now.

 

[oSiyeza]

Last I checked, religion had enormous real effects on history...

It has, but certainly has no battles of magic wizards with lightning efects.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

"Game modes can include additional content such as new units, buildings or improvements and can be turned on or off during game setup to apply significant and dramatic changes to the rule of the game'"

My hot take.

• Splitting the Baby (or how to have pandemics without annoying everyone). This whole “optional modes” is a pretty clever idea. The big tension with a third expansion was that, on the one hand, the game still has gaps that need to be filled in and needs more content to be rounded out, but on the other hand, there’s a feeling the game was getting too complicated and some of the stuff people wanted or that FXS might want to do could be decisive (eg plagues, more random events). Indeed, some of the stuff they’d already done was unwanted by some people, eg loyalty and disasters, and you often here people asking to be able to toggle those things off. This new “optional mode” basically lets FXS have their cake and eat it to. They can introduce more content, and indeed be more experimental, and if people think it’s too complicated or too fantasy then don’t worry about it, you can just switch it off. I mean, they can now introduce eg global pandemics and all the people that want that in the game will be happy, and all those that really don’t will be happy too. Indeed, I hope they go back and make loyalty and disasters a bit more optional given how much some people don’t like those mechanics.

So here's a wild idea.

Let's presume that there will be no more expansions released with large mechanical features. Let's also presume if, by extension, a highly requested feature like corporations will be only included as a "mode" rather than a core game mechanic like R&F loyalty or GS climate change.

What if, then, a patch were added retroactively making R&F and GS mechanics togglable "modes?" I could definitely see some players wanting to play a game without climate change, or the world congress, or loyalty, or ages. There might be some balancing necessary, either by tweaking civs with mode-specific bonuses or otherwise making them unplayable in certain modes, but it would make for a more customizeable game experience.

Similarly, I could see the devs converting scenarios like Black Death into modes, since players want a plague mechanic but it seems unlikely we will get a full-on Pandemic-style expansion.

 

[Zaarin]

It has, but certainly has no battles of magic wizards with lightning efects.

I don't care for that either, but I never saw it as anything except a visual effect.

 

[Patine]

Gran Columbia is quite a disappointment. So many much better options with greater potential and horizons, and we get a "blink-and-you'll-miss-it," on the timeline of history civilization that is hard to call it's own "culture," or "society," but is a syncretic mix. The Muisca would have even been a far superior choice for that region, geographical.

 

[AntSou]

I'm not convinced they would delay the release of staple Civs on the possibility they might need them for a second season pass. It's the first time they are attempting this model. Don't think they'd like to gamble.

If this turns out to be really successful, who knows, maybe we get an extra season. But I don't believe that's something that's already set in stone.

There's plenty of stuff for a second season, if needed, in any case. Babylon or Assyria (whichever doesn't get added in New Frontier), Venice or Italy, Austria, Morocco, Angola, Siam, Nepal, Argentina, a Celtic or Germanic tribe, plenty of alt leaders. So much stuff.

 

[AntSou]

Gran Columbia is quite a disappointment. So many much better options with greater potential and horizons, and we get a "blink-and-you'll-miss-it," on the timeline of history civilization that is hard to call it's own "culture," or "society," but is a syncretic mix. The Muisca would have even been a far superior choice for that region, geographical.

That's short sighted. Gran Colombia is a symbol of South American independence and end of colonial rule. It doesn't matter how long it lasted, since its effects have lasted to this day. Should we remove Alexander and Macedon as well?

 

[altayrneto]

I don’t know if someone already guessed it, but I think Secret Societies could work similar to religions: you will be able to create a society with specific caracteristics (for example media manipulation, political interference, control of the banking system, lovecraftian cult...) and will expand the influence of your society by “converting” other cities. In my opinion, this would make more sense as the Religious Victory than the current one...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don’t know if someone already guessed it, but I think Secret Societies could work similar to religions: you will be able to create a society with specific caracteristics (for example media manipulation, political interference, control of the banking system, lovecraftian cult...) and will expand the influence of your society by “converting” other cities. In my opinion, this would make more sense as the Religious Victory than the curent one...

And if you can plant your secret society in foreign cities, it could affect espionage, diplomacy, trade, religion...

 

[durfal]

What about William III as alt for Netherlands/England?

He would be actually very acceptable as a leader for the Netherlands, for the English I don't know. He was also crowned as king William II of Scotland and king William I of Ireland btw.
Last time England was successfully invaded by a foreign power though.

Fun fact, for civ III they added the Netherlands as a civ for the first time and gave them Willem van Oranje the first (in English William of Orange) as their leader.
Biggest Dutch leader ever so a great idea. They portrait him in game as this William III though cause in England his nickname was also William of Orange (the only one they had) and if you look for portraits for William of Orange you get mostly portraits of William III on English websites. I was hugely disappointed and annoyed when he was shown for the first time.

 

[Pistol90]

I don’t know if someone already guessed it, but I think Secret Societies could work similar to religions: you will be able to create a society with specific caracteristics (for example media manipulation, political interference, control of the banking system, lovecraftian cult...) and will expand the influence of your society by “converting” other cities. In my opinion, this would make more sense as the Religious Victory than the curent one...

It would be great, but also sounds too complex ... these game modes would be small addition --- that's large one. I would guess Secret Societies would just expand Espionage or Loyalty ... a little more depth and width to those mechanics.

 

[ehecatzin]

I'm not convinced they would delay the release of staple Civs on the possibility they might need them for a second season pass. It's the first time they are attempting this model. Don't think they'd like to gamble.

If this turns out to be really successful, who knows, maybe we get an extra season. But I don't believe that's something that's already set in stone.

There's plenty of stuff for a second season, if needed, in any case. Babylon or Assyria (whichever doesn't get added in New Frontier), Venice or Italy, Austria, Morocco, Angola, Siam, Nepal, Argentina, a Celtic or Germanic tribe, plenty of alt leaders. So much stuff.

well...you don't have to commit to a whole 2nd season since planning, just a 1st season + 1 dlc. So if It doesn't sell as well, you can end with one last DLC and close the develpment cycle.

 

[riddleofsteel]

The language of the Minoans was almost certainly not Indo-European or Semitic.


TBH if we don't get one of Babylon or Assyria, I'm gonna riot.

Always happy to see discussion of the Minoans!

I don’t know if someone already guessed it, but I think Secret Societies could work similar to religions: you will be able to create a society with specific caracteristics (for example media manipulation, political interference, control of the banking system, lovecraftian cult...) and will expand the influence of your society by “converting” other cities. In my opinion, this would make more sense as the Religious Victory than the current one...

In the little bit of reading I'm doing about these new modes and mechanics, I feel somewhat apprehensive. The game is already chock-full of so many different mechanics that I'm not happy with. Will shoe horning in even more of them instead of adressing the old ones going to be a disaster? I really hope not, but there's not much reason to expect otherwise.