[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Thenewwwguy]

The whole point of Civilization is on what-ifs. It's a game. It's a game where what-if possibilities can mean the Sumerian civilization not only interacts with America but can beat America using jet fighters and nukes. I don't understand what is the problem.

If this is a problem, that's a problem with China. Not us. But then again, it's a country that lies and creates propaganda is extremely touchy and edge so I can see why this might be a problem. But should it be?

i’ll just say that all countries create propaganda. But let’s not get into politics.

regardless of what china should do, they are touchy about tibet. the game will get embargoed. and firaxis doesn’t want that. So even though I agree with you, it’s not going to happen.

 

[clapyourhands]

The whole point of Civilization is on what-ifs. It's a game. It's a game where what-if possibilities can mean the Sumerian civilization not only interacts with America but can beat America using jet fighters and nukes. I don't understand what is the problem.

If this is a problem, that's a problem with China. Not us. But then again, it's a country that lies and creates propaganda is extremely touchy and edge so I can see why this might be a problem. But should it be?

You are correct, it is a problem with China, not the rest of the Civ audience. But it's a problem that affects us because it affects China, which is a major demographic of the video game market. Why would a game company potentially get their game banned from one of the biggest regions in the world when they could just... pick another civ? It's not a Firaxis-specific thing, either. Every major video game company works around Chinese restrictions, both regarding political and moral policing. Off the top of my head, Blizzard, Riot Games, and Nintendo for instance all have changed portions of their international games to comply with Chinese regulations on how to depict certain things (for instance, skeletons and blood being changed from their original versions to avoid being censored).

 

[Thenewwwguy]

and anyway, like, i’d rather have them make more money so they can invest in the game than lose 30% of their sales just to put one civ in the game

don’t get me wrong i’m a massive #FreeTibet person, but in terms of this game, while I’d like to see tibet, I don’t want to see its quality drop.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Current events and politics do not belong in the game threads. Please take these issues to the World History or Off Topic forums for further discussion.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Thoughts?

Shona - Nyatsimba Mutota

UA - Gold and Ivory: Luxury Resource Improvements provide +3 gold. Commercial Hubs gain a major adjacency bonus when placed next to camps

LA: The Journey for Salt: Cities founded next to luxury resources automatically gain an extra trade route capacity. They also gain +3 gold if they are 6 or more tiles away from the capital city.

UU: Gano Axemen: Replaces Swordsman. Costs half production to produce. Gain gold equivalent to 50% of the damage done to a city or unit when defeating it.

UI: Walled Market: Replaces Commercial Hub. Has the capability to attack invaders, like Encampments or cities with walls.


I could imagine a Shona civ somewhat like this, should that be a civ we get to see in New Frontier. A reverse-maya, luxury resource focused civ.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

Speaking of Tlingit, who should be their leader if we get them

I'm a bit late but I certainly can't help but to name some options for the Tlingit when I can! Gush X'een is certainly one of the better options as a leader but he's far from the only option. Katlian and Shaadaxicht (also known as Shotridge or Kohklux) would make for great choices. Katlian would certainly have a unique style!

I'd also say that Shona / Zimbabwe civ design looks quite nice to me, definitely has good potential and could feasibly be an official civ (at least in my opinion).

For the comments I've seen earlier about possibly getting another expansion pack, it would be great if we did get both a New Frontier and a Final Frontier. If that does end up happening, I'd probably change what I'd think or hope we'd get something similar to this:

New Frontier:

Maya (Lady Six Sky) - Already in and welcome.
Gran Colombia (Simon Bolivar) - Already in and welcome.
Ethiopia (Ezana / Zara Yaqob / Menelik II) - We know they'll be in and any of those 3 leaders would be great choices.
Portugal (Manuel I) - A great naval power that established many overseas colonies. Manuel was the one who oversaw the establishment of this vast new trade empire.
Zimbabwe (Nyatsimba Mutota) - Little may be known of the actual Kingdom of Zimbabwe or earlier, but much more is known of the successor empires of Mutapa and Rozwi which were also composed of the Shona ethnicity. Mutota was responsible for finding new luxury resources and for greatly expanding his realm.
Assyria (Tiglath-Pileser III) - An ancient and powerful empire that at many times held all of Mesopotamia and many of the surrounding areas under it's rule. Tiglath-Pileser III created Assyria's first professional standing army.
Vietnam (Trac Trung) - A nation with quite the rebellious spirit due to almost constantly needing to fight off the Chinese and other invading powers. Trac Trung and her sister rebelled against China and ruled Vietnam for 3 years setting up a legacy of resistance.
Mongolian Alt Leader (Mandukhai) - Kublai Khan may be more well-known and with his own merits, but Mandukhai deserves so much recognition for uniting the post Yuan dynasty Mongols, keeping Ming dynasty China on it's toes, and establishing a line of leaders that would last into the 1930s.
Tlingit (Katlian) - One of the most advanced native groups north of Mesoamerica with influence over much of the west coast of North America. Katlian was a major chief lead during the Battle of Sitka and the trade embargo that lasted years afterwards.

Final Frontier:

Rome Alt Leader (Basil II) - One of the greatest Byzantine leaders with his military and administrative successes. Give him a big ability with his own UU and UI/UB/UD so that it isn't just the legions of the earlier ages.
Bulgaria (Simeon) - A major power in Eastern Europe and one of the Byzantine Roman's biggest enemies. Simeon's reign lead the country into a golden age.
Burma (Bayinnaung) - The largest empire in Southeast Asia that Bayinnaung was instrumental in building and maintaining during his life.
Morocco (Yusuf I) - The Almohad Caliphate was a Berber Muslim dynasty that had control over most the north west coast of Africa as well as much of Spain and Portugal. Yusuf built many building and was a patron of the theologians of his era.
Natchez (Quigualtam) - A Mississippian mound-building kingdom that was actually in its ascendancy during the de Soto expedition as opposed to the decay of many of the other kingdoms. Quigualtam's fleet drove the expedition away.
Austria (Maria Theresa) - An influential empire with a tremendous cultural legacy. Maria Theresa was quite the ruler and had many of her children marry into monarchies all over Europe.
Benin (Idia) - A long-lasting kingdom that was one of the most highly-developed nations of Sub-Saharan Africa. Idia was a great warrior who held significant power before and during the reign of her son.
Babylonia (Hammurabi) - Babylon continues to be one of the most well-known Mesopotamian cities and the influential Babylonia kingdom was made possible due to the efforts of the cunning Hammurabi.
Iroquois (Jigonhsasee) - They were the military and administrative juggernauts of native North America. Jigonhsasee was one of the 3 founders whose efforts helped make peace with the 5 member tribes.

 

[Patine]

and establishing a line of leaders that would last into the 1930s.

Poor Bogd Khan. He was just a simple religious leader in an isolated monastery who just happened to have an apex lama office and Genghissid heritage when the Mongolian horse-owning nobles declared the long vassalage to the Qing Dynasty Chinese Empire was not compatible to bending knee to Sun Yat-sen's republic in 1912. Bogd Khan was so UTTERLY unprepared and ill-suited for national or political leadership, and had no idea at all what he was doing, but his status made giving meaningful advice in rulership almost taboo for others in Mongolia. And he was utterly unprepared for what the Kuomintang and the Russian (Whites and Reds) had in mind for his little, but sparsely populated and technologically-backward country. Speaking of the end of that long dynasty - I had just read about Bogd Khan last year some time, so it's SOMEWHAT fresh in mind.

 

[TeddyMain]

I feel like I'm in the minority that believes Firaxis is gonna pass up the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee. The space that the Iroquois would inhabit geographically is already tight between America and Canada, while the rest of North America is pretty void of representation.

I'm more inclined to believe they'll probably prioritize other native civs, like the Navajo, Tlingit/Haida, or even the Inuit to fill in those geographic voids in the map. Kinda sucks tho since I'd love to see the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee.

 

[679x]

I feel like I'm in the minority that believes Firaxis is gonna pass up the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee. The space that the Iroquois would inhabit geographically is already tight between America and Canada, while the rest of North America is pretty void of representation.

I'm more inclined to believe they'll probably prioritize other native civs, like the Navajo, Tlingit/Haida, or even the Inuit to fill in those geographic voids in the map. Kinda sucks tho since I'd love to see the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee.

I agree. I think the presence of the Cree also makes the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee even less likely. Not because the Cree serve the same role as the Iroquois, but simply because civ slots are very precious right now and I expect any North American civs to be from the less-represented parts of the continent, like the PNW or for a civ like Navajo or Apache, and I don't really expect more than one NA civ to be added at this point, even though I wish we could have more.

 

[Zaarin]

The thing with the Iroquois is that they're a safe choice. They're accustomed to media attention. They don't have any taboos to make representation difficult. For example, the more I've thought about it, the less likely a PNW tribe seems to me: they have a taboo against speaking the name of the recently deceased until that name is passed on to a new owner. Tribes that are more Christian and therefore might be more amenable like the Nisga'a or Tsimshian would have less name recognition to the general audience. It's also pretty clear that the Cree were originally intended to be the Haida so I don't think Firaxis will try again just now. As for the Navajo, I think this is less true among young Navajo, but many older Navajo believe photographing a person steals their soul, which could be a barrier for inclusion. I'm not saying it will be the Iroquois, but I think they stand a pretty decent chance just because they're easy to include.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I feel like I'm in the minority that believes Firaxis is gonna pass up the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee. The space that the Iroquois would inhabit geographically is already tight between America and Canada, while the rest of North America is pretty void of representation.

I'm more inclined to believe they'll probably prioritize other native civs, like the Navajo, Tlingit/Haida, or even the Inuit to fill in those geographic voids in the map. Kinda sucks tho since I'd love to see the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee.

I feel like that's completely opposite to what I some others feel.

I'm not expecting all the rest of the new civs to be returning and to me the ones that have a better chance of returning would definitely be Portugal, Babylon or Assyria, and the Byzantines. Plus with Maya and Ethiopia already confirmed, I think the easiest thing would be to choose a whole new tribe from North America, because there are certainly many valid options.
Not that I wouldn't mind the Iroquois returning, but that would probably overrun the New Frontier Pass with returning Civs and not make any room for a few new ones.

 

[The Kingmaker]

IMHO New Frontier is most probably going to consist of those old favorites that are still missing, with one or two surprises like GC mixed in.

If we want some more groundbreaking civs, I expect our best chance for that is to buy New Frontier so that they even consider making a Final Frontier.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

IMHO New Frontier is most probably going to consist of those old favorites that are still missing, with one or two surprises like GC mixed in.

I agree. But I think the Iroquois aren't considered as much as a priority over the other old favorites. I would say it's possible that we could get three more new ones and make it on par with the expansions making it 4 new and 4 returning.

That being said if they did go with a returning Native American tribe, the Iroquois would be the favorite hands down. Not that they have much competition between the Sioux, Shoshone, and Civ 4's Native Americans.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

IMHO New Frontier is most probably going to consist of those old favorites that are still missing, with one or two surprises like GC mixed in.

If we want some more groundbreaking civs, I expect our best chance for that is to buy New Frontier so that they even consider making a Final Frontier.

I still think if the devs were smart they would have five or six new civs in New Frontier and save as many staples for the final season.

Fans are already disappointed with the new release model, and the Berbers or Oman are not going to convince disappointed players to buy a second season.

But by contrast, everyone would pay for even a trash Babylon just to complete their silly staple bingo sheets.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I still think if the devs were smart they would have five or six new civs in New Frontier and save as many staples for the final season.

Fans are already disappointed with the new release model, and the Berbers or Oman are not going to convince disappointed players to buy a second season.

But by contrast, everyone would pay for even a trash Babylon just to complete their silly staple bingo sheets.

if people don’t buy new frontier then they wouldn’t get a second season, which means the big players need to be coming in this pack.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

if people don’t buy new frontier then they wouldn’t get a second season, which means the big players need to be coming in this pack.

I think it's pretty likely New Frontier already sold well. All it takes is a healthy number of full season pass preorders to justify a second season, and between residual goodwill from GS and players expecting staples in NFP, I think that has already happened.

Really, for NFP to sell well enough for a second season they just needed to reveal just enough to convince players to buy the whole thing. I.e., just reveal a couple highly popular staples like Maya and Ethiopia (and maybe a highly requested addition like Colombia). The specifics of the rest of NFP almost don't matter if they did their job right and sold the whole thing with a strong front end.

 

[The Kingmaker]

if people don’t buy new frontier then they wouldn’t get a second season, which means the big players need to be coming in this pack.

Right. The thing is, this "New Frontier" is already unexplored territory for FXS and 2K. This may well be all we get after XP2. If we really want a Final Frontier, I think we really need to advocate for it.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Right. The thing is, this "New Frontier" is already unexplored territory for FXS and 2K. This may well be all we get after XP2. If we really want a Final Frontier, I think we really need to advocate for it.

Here's a hypothetical. Say you didn't buy the season pass. Five DLC packs release, the sixth is announced, and we get no more staples. The new civs are good, but none of the civs you were expecting from a final expansion. No Byzantium, no Babylon, no Portugal.

Having very good reason to infer that some of these were pushed back for a second season (just like they were pushed back from GS) but still without confirmation of a third DLC pack, would you still buy the NFP DLC pack just to endorse the developers and hope that it will solidify the plans to release the staples you were waiting for?

And, abstracting from that, knowing that you would still buy your staples even if they were delayed, would you even care if they were released this season or next? Would you still, then, remain a faithful customer and preorder the NFP pass because you know--absent a major squandering of the considerable goodwill Firaxis has built up--you would purchase the DLC and second season anyway.

This is the sort of thinking that I think many players arrive at and why Firaxis hasn't seemed to care about checking off staple boxes with each installment. They have more ideas and bigger plans, will release the staples when they are ready, and trust that as long as they maintain the quality of new content players will stay loyal even if they aren't getting exactly what they thought they wanted.

So, again, the question isn't whether we are getting all of the remaining staples in NFP to sell a second season. The question is how much more do the developers want to do and does that justify spreading out staples across two seasons rather than one? Or are they finally reaching the end of their creativity and just cramming fan favorites into a single season?

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Here's a hypothetical. Say you didn't buy the season pass. Five DLC packs release, the sixth is announced, and we get no more staples. The new civs are good, but none of the civs you were expecting from a final expansion. No Byzantium, no Babylon, no Portugal.

Having very good reason to infer that some of these were pushed back for a second season (just like they were pushed back from GS) but still without confirmation of a third DLC pack, would you still buy the NFP DLC pack just to endorse the developers and hope that it will solidify the plans to release the staples you were waiting for?

And, abstracting from that, knowing that you would still buy your staples even if they were delayed, would you even care if they were released this season or next? Would you still, then, remain a faithful customer and preorder the NFP pass because you know--absent a major squandering of the considerable goodwill Firaxis has built up--you would purchase the DLC and second season anyway.

This is the sort of thinking that I think many players arrive at and why Firaxis hasn't seemed to care about checking off staple boxes with each installment. They have more ideas and bigger plans, will release the staples when they are ready, and trust that as long as they maintain the quality of new content players will stay loyal even if they aren't getting exactly what they thought they wanted.

So, again, the question isn't whether we are getting all of the remaining staples in NFP to sell a second season. The question is how much more do the developers want to do and does that justify spreading out staples across two seasons rather than one? Or are they finally reaching the end of their creativity and just cramming fan favorites into a single season?

see, I would buy it, because i could care less about the returners (besides babylon/assyria)

I want to see new civs, so I would buy (and have already bought) NF either way

I’m also a hardcore fan who’d buy whatever they dropped regardless

but for a fan who isn’t big into civ, or buys only what he likes in terms of civs, if you don’t offer the good civs now, it won’t sell

the point is not to get ppl to buy a second season, imo, it’s just to have one.

I could care less how well the second season sells because at least i get more civs. The first season’s sales are important bcs I want the second season to exist.

 

[Grand-Admiral Thrawn]

The Kingdom of Hawaii - Kamehameha the Great

UA - Volcanic Archipelago
Volcanoes give a major adjacency bonus to all specially districts. Volcanoes within Hawaii’s borders have a greater chance to fertilize land, and these volcanoes can give faith and culture to fertilized tiles

UU - War Canoe
Swordsman replacement unlocked at shipbuilding. +4 combat strength. Does not take combat penalties when attacking across a river, or when attacking a land unit from the sea. Does not loose combat strength when embarked.

UI - Heiau
Shrine replacement. +1 culture, +1 faith. Tiles fertilized by volcanoes in this city gain +1 faith

LUA - Unifier of Hawaii
Kamehameha gains +3 combat strength in cities within 10 tiles of his own non-occupied cities. If the city is a city-state, he gains +5 combat strength instead. If the city is a free city, he gains +10 combat strength instead.