[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't hate it, just the design.

I can agree with that. Even though I've come around on the golf course I think a loch castle would have been cool, if only we had a lot more lakes.
My main problem is the Highlander should be based on the earlier Highlanders, not necessarily the medieval warriors like in Braveheart, but of the clans in the Jacobite revolts or earlier.

ultimately, I’d like poland and sweden to be in the game, but i just would say that these other civ’s, especially the non-European ones, both represent important stages in their regional histories and would go a long way to make the game less euro-centric

Margaret leads Scandinavia in Civ 7 with a Norwegian Ski Infantry UU and IKEA infrastructure with Nobel Prizes and the ability for naval units to cross oceans earlier and coastal raid. Problem solved.

Edit: You actually meant it with a "grand tour".

 

[Zaarin]

i think that’s fair, but a scandinavian ‘grand tour’ civ with both the viking part (through a civ ability and a UU) and a non-viking part (leader and LU, perhaps UI) would be the best imo. We don’t have separate civs to represent periods of time in Asia, China and India are grand tour civ’s for example, so I don’t think it’s fair to extend that to European civs if you don’t do the same for Civs across the world.

To me, having a "Viking" civ and a non-Viking civ feels appropriate. Protestant Sweden was a very different culture and country compared to its Viking past. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing them spread out more geographically: I think Iceland would make a great candidate for the Viking civ in Civ7, for instance.

With Poland, I’m inclined to agree, especially under Casimir and Jadwiga, it was quite powerful. But I can’t help but feel it’s initial inclusion was inflated by some amount of eurocentrism, since there are numerous world civs with similar amounts of importance elsewhere.

It's initial inclusion was because Poland is an important emerging market for strategy games. I have a Polish friend (in Poland) who was ecstatic at their inclusion--and at both leader choices. However, if that's what it took to bring them to Firaxis' attention, I'm fine with it in this case specifically. Better Poland than Australia or Canada.

You may have been thinking of Lydia or Phrygia. They weren't really Hittite but I suppose they were Hittite iron-age successors.

Actually, as I think of it I think I was thinking of the resurgence of the Neo-Assyrian Empire after the Collapse.

Margaret leads Scandinavia in Civ 7 with a Berserker UU and IKEA infrastructure with Nobel Prize ability and the ability for naval units to cross oceans earlier and coastal raid. Problem solved.

She offers lutfisk as a delegation gift, which immediately causes 30 grievances.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Margaret leads Scandinavia in Civ 7 with a Norwegian Ski Infantry UU and IKEA infrastructure with Nobel Prizes and the ability for naval units to cross oceans earlier and coastal raid. Problem solved.

Edit: You actually meant it with a "grand tour".

Well I was thinking something not that ridiculous, but rather Margaret, Longship UU, some UI (doesn’t matter), Civ ability focused on vikings and Leader Ability focused on the settled scandinavian nations

but Zaarin’s idea of geographically distnacing the viking and post-viking civs works too

 

[SirMediocrity]

Personally, I like the idea of splitting up Norway, Sweden, and Denmark into different historical eras for representation. Norway can be early medieval (Viking age). Denmark can be high/late middle ages (around the time of the northern crusades), and Sweden can be renaissance/early industrial.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Personally, I like the idea of splitting up Norway, Sweden, and Denmark into different historical eras for representation. Norway can be early medieval (Viking age). Denmark can be high/late middle ages (around the time of the northern crusades), and Sweden can be renaissance/early industrial.

i’d be fine with that if it wasn’t taking so many slots from other civs, namely non-european, non-medieval/renaissance civs

 

[SirMediocrity]

i’d be fine with that if it wasn’t taking so many slots from other civs, namely non-european, non-medieval/renaissance civs

Yeah, I agree. I was mostly speaking under the assumption of representing all three at the same time (there are at least a dozen civs not yet in the game that I would want over Denmark).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

i’d be fine with that if it wasn’t taking so many slots from other civs, namely non-european, non-medieval/renaissance civs

At this point in the franchise we are getting a lot more civs that aren't necessarily from Europe such as more in Africa, Southeast Asia, and the Americas etc.

But at the same time I think it's expected in the future that there are certain civs from Europe that seem inevitable at this point such as Poland becoming the new "Ethiopia" of Europe, a Celtic civ whether it be a modern nation or Classical Era tribe, a non-Viking Scandinavia civ, and a Central European power whether it be Austria, Hungary or even Bohemia in the future, in addition to the staples.

At the same time in the future we can at least expect SE Asia to be represented by maybe more than 2 civs and South America to not only have the Inca as a Pre-Columbian civ.

 

[Hunyadi]

He would be interesting indeed but we basically got him with the Sanguine Pact in the Secret Societies game mode as the vampire unit.

Either you're joking or you're incredibly uneducated. Fictional vampires have nothing to do with Romania or Vlad Dracula. Vampires are western pop culture based on an Irish novel. The real Vlad Dracula is far more interesting than some blood sucking fantasies.

Eastern Europe in general is vastly underrepresented not just in Civ but in all history-based games. And before you say that it would make the game too Eurocentristic, keep in mind that Eurocentrism (or the criticism of it) has never stopped the devs from ALWAYS including England and France in the game - look it up, they're virtually in every historical game.

So if it's so Eurocentristic, why not kick out England or France for once in favour of Bulgaria, Lithuania or Wallachia? Heck even Hungary barely made it in and they have an amazing history.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

So if it's so Eurocentristic, why not kick out England or France for once in favour of Bulgaria, Lithuania or Wallachia? Heck even Hungary barely made it in and they have an amazing history.

Um, because england and france were the predominant world superpowers for quite some time? I'm all for more inclusion but let's back up a few steps here.

 

[Birch617]

I personally don't mind if we got more "obscure" European civs that give more flavor to the game, for example i wouldn't mind civs like the Sami, the Basque or the Moors (but i tbh i prefer more non-europeans overall)

 

[SirMediocrity]

I personally don't mind if we got more "obscure" European civs that give more flavor to the game, for example i wouldn't mind civs like the Sami, the Basque or the Moors (but i tbh i prefer more non-europeans overall)

Some non-European civs I'd love to see include Malaysia, Angola (led by Ana Nzinga), Siam, Nepal, Madagascar (led by Ranavalona), Tupi, Ashante, Ghana, and Afghanistan.

 

[SnowKomodo]

tbf, if you requested the majapahit specifically you probsbly are a history buff. The main reason why indonesia got in (namely named as indonesia) is because ppl requested indonesia (and it was a good marketing opportunity, considering it’s the 5th largest country by population)

Good point. Also, Indonesia is 4th largest by pop

 

[Zaarin]

a non-Viking Scandinavia civ, and a Central European power whether it be Austria, Hungary or even Bohemia in the future, in addition to the staples.

I think @Kimiimaro and I are more or less alone on this, but I would love to see a Bohemia civ.

I personally don't mind if we got more "obscure" European civs that give more flavor to the game, for example i wouldn't mind civs like the Sami, the Basque or the Moors (but i tbh i prefer more non-europeans overall)

I think Europe is full enough of A-listers and B-listers to leave the more obscure civs to other regions. (Though TBH I wouldn't consider al-Andalus culturally European, and geography only matters on TSL. As for the Basque, a Kingdom of Navarra civ might be interesting, but it's got a lot of competition if we're going to Balkanize Spain--speaking personally, I'd rather Balkanize France than Spain, though. A Frankish, Norman, Breton, or Languedoc civ would have a lot to offer, for instance.)

 

[8housesofelixir]

I don't remember who said that, but I recall someone saying that governors - and most especially Ibrahim, because Suleiman basically has no intrinsic ability, all is done through his governor - might be a test for Civ VII, where you don't have just one LUA and CUA but several that unlock along the game. That would be interesting and could be linked to dynasties (except that for countries that didn't had dynasties - Denmark and Dutch would have solely the Oldenburg and Oranje respectively, and Japan has apparently the same since two thousands years) and make your civ evolve and adapt to new challenges appearing in the game.

Separating LUA, CUA and sub-UAs is a great idea, it can add more depth to the strategy of a civ, and let some of the niche characteristics shine.

Japan can have different Shoguns as special governors. Imagine choosing between a militaristic Oda, a wonder-obsessed Toyotomi (he love building cities and palaces), and a diplomacy/espionage-focused Tokugawa. We can even have a more realistic Hojo with a bonus to forts - he didn't rely on kamikaze to defeat the Mongols, he literally built Great Walls along the coast for defense.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Either you're joking or you're incredibly uneducated. Fictional vampires have nothing to do with Romania or Vlad Dracula. Vampires are western pop culture based on an Irish novel. The real Vlad Dracula is far more interesting than some blood sucking fantasies.

Eastern Europe in general is vastly underrepresented not just in Civ but in all history-based games. And before you say that it would make the game too Eurocentristic, keep in mind that Eurocentrism (or the criticism of it) has never stopped the devs from ALWAYS including England and France in the game - look it up, they're virtually in every historical game.

So if it's so Eurocentristic, why not kick out England or France for once in favour of Bulgaria, Lithuania or Wallachia? Heck even Hungary barely made it in and they have an amazing history.

I'm not joking and I'm educated as far as I'm aware.
The matter of the fact is you can see in the design that the Sanguine pact is actually inspired by him and others of similar backgrounds from Hungary and Romania. Two of the possible names for the vampire unit are Vlad and Tepes, not to mention the civilopedia article for vampires even mentions Elizabeth Bathory as a possible real-life vampire.

I never said I never wanted him in the first place, or that I'm complaining that the game is too Eurocentric. I just don't think Romania with him as a leader is likely at this point because of what they put in the game.
If you see my signature and the posts my number one civ I want is Italy which is very Eurocentric.

 

[Birch617]

tbh when i think of a Basque civ i think more of pre-christianization early Basque tribes; like more on the foundation of Lordship of Biscay, still with Basque religious tradition( like the use of Aquelarres) and they would be led by Jaun Zuria

 

[Zaarin]

tbh when i think of a Basque civ i think more of pre-christianization early Basque tribes; like more on the foundation of Lordship of Biscay, still with Basque religious tradition( like the use of Aquelarres) and they would be led by Jaun Zuria

I'm not an expert on the subject, but as far as I can find the Lordship of Biscay was a vassal of Castile, and Jaun Zuria was mythical--which seems unnecessary when there are attested Basque kings of Navarra.

 

[8housesofelixir]

What would be the UA of the Basques? Off the top of my head I can only think of whale-catching and Martin Guerre.

 

[Zaarin]

What would be the UA of the Basques? Off the top of my head I can only think of whale-catching and Martin Guerre.

If we're going to have a civ built around whaling, I want the Nuu-chah-nulth or Makah. But it could also make sense for a sort of "grand tour" Basque civ. Because I'm a language nerd, the first thing that comes to my mind with the Basque is Basque-Algonquian pidgin that Basque whalers used to communicate with the Montagnais and Laurentians. I think they had a pidgin they used with the Icelanders, too.

 

[SnowKomodo]

So it seems the most popular guesses for the remaining civs are:

Vietnam
Byzantium
Portugal
Native American civ
Babylon or Assyria

However, sometimes we get thrown a curveball. If this were to happen, which of these is least likely to make the cut and which "unexpected" darkhorse civ would you guess takes its place?