[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[8housesofelixir]

I'm still annoyed that they turned the serious (one might even say grim), introverted Philip II into Don Juan meets d'Artagnan played by Antonia Banderas.

I also feel like El Escorial as a world wonder would suit him better.

For the record, I really like the Casa de contratación, it is probably the most historically accurate wonder in the game, in terms of bonuses and effects.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

there’s a non-zero probability that September will be Portugal and a mainland Europe civ other than Byzantium, like Ireland, the Goths, Austria (unlikely), Tuscany/Florence, Bohemia, Croatia, etc. and November will be Byzantium as a Middle East Civ (or there is no byzantium and november is Babylon or Assyria)

 

[AaronTBD]

I'm going to say something possibly controversial, but I think that it's likely that if a returning civ (like Portugal or Byzantines) goes to the NFP, the other civ would almost certainty be a brand new civ (like Ireland, Finland, or Bulgaria). I may be wrong though, but it's my theory.

 

[ElectRonin]

I'm going to say something possibly controversial, but I think that it's likely that if a returning civ (like Portugal or Byzantines) goes to the NFP, the other civ would almost certainty be a brand new civ (like Ireland, Finland, or Bulgaria). I may be wrong though, but it's my theory.

I was thinking about that too. Another thing that came to my mind is that if there's a Bulgarian civ I somehow doubt it will be under Simeon I. I'm not sure Firaxis would add two leaders with very similar names Simeon vs Simon (Bolivar) relatively soon one after the other.

 

[AaronTBD]

I was thinking about that too. Another thing that came to my mind is that if there's a Bulgarian civ I somehow doubt it will be under Simeon I. I'm not sure Firaxis would add two leaders with very similar names Simeon vs Simon (Bolivar) relatively soon one after the other.

Maybe, but I don't know who else. He defeated the Byzantines, which was a power of Europe at the time, he ordered a new alphabet that would become one of the most popular in the world (Cyrillic), and made Bulgaria a powerful nation. So I don't know who else would be leader. I'd say he's a good pick even if Simon and Simeon are similar.

 

[ElectRonin]

Maybe, but I don't know who else.

There's a lot of cool choices here actually.

Asparuh - The father of Danubian Bulgaria.
Tervel - Dubbed "The Saviour of Europe"
Krum - Made a drinking cup out of a Byzantine emperor's skull.
Samuil - The last great ruler of the First Tsardom, even though they were contemporaries with the Bulgar-Slayer.
Kaloyan - Dude wanted to be called the "Roman-slayer" so much he basically spent half his time ruling out slaughtering and being a general c*nt.
Ivan Asen II - Probably the standout ruler during the Second Tsardom. Bulgaria reached its territorial peak under him as well as a cultural golden age (but not as big as the one Simeon had achieved).

Others like Kubrat, Ivaylo, Omurtag, Boris I, Petar I are also viable options, though much less popular.

 

[AaronTBD]

There's a lot of cool choices here actually.

Asparuh - The father of Danubian Bulgaria.
Tervel - Dubbed "The Saviour of Europe"
Krum - Made a drinking cup out of a Byzantine emperor's skull.
Samuil - The last great ruler of the First Tsardom, even though they were contemporaries with the Bulgar-Slayer.
Kaloyan - Dude wanted to be called the "Roman-slayer" so much he basically spent half his time ruling out slaughtering and being a general c*nt.
Ivan Asen II - Probably the standout ruler during the Second Tsardom. Bulgaria reached its territorial peak under him as well as a cultural golden age (but not as big as the one Simeon had achieved).

Others like Kubrat, Ivaylo, Omurtag, Boris I, Petar I are also viable options, though much less popular.

Man this tells me two things

1) How much Bulgaria hated the Byzantines
2) There's a lot of good leaders

While I would still pick Simeon I, most of them, minus Kaloyan cause he seem like a d*ck, are pretty good choices!

 

[ElectRonin]

1) How much Bulgaria hated the Byzantines

Frenemies is a great word for it imo. There were a lot of battles and hostility (45 named battles across 600 years), but there were also examples of cooperation, peace and even friendship. Some of the greatest Bulgarian rulers were notorious Byzantophiles.

 

[AaronTBD]

I wonder what the Unique Building and Unique Unit of Bulgaria would be. Maybe the Literary School for the UB?

 

[ElectRonin]

I wonder what the Unique Building and Unique Unit of Bulgaria would be. Maybe the Literary School for the UB?

Literary school would probably be it, yeah. As for UU, either a heavy cavalry (we have enough of those imo) or an infantry (Opalchenets, Hush, Hajdut etc.).

 

[Falkman]

We know it's unlikely to be Asia because pack #5 has been "soft leaked".

Exciting! As someone who has been away from these forums for a bit, which civs/region has the soft leak said will be included in pack 5? Or is this the same as the "Venice means Portugal" information?

 

[SMcM]

Pretty sure I said that I don't think the devs are going to go with contemporaries of Philip, and Manuel, Joao II, and Joao III are only about fifty, sixty years removed from Philip's reign. The further back they go, the more Portugal's exploration efforts seem exceptional rather than something to soon be eclipsed by Spain.

Civilization IV had Joao II and Isabella, that's reasonably contemporary- I honestly don't think leaders from a similar time period in neighbor states is a major issue for them. We have Cyrus and Tomyris in this game. And even if there is a case to be made for Joao I, 'almost certain' is clearly not remotely true.

Also Phillip II was in Civilization II iirc, so not a new leader choice.

I don't see any point in choosing anyone later than Philip either, when Portugal's appeal and arguably sole reason for being in the game at all is mostly rooted in the exploration era.

Except for the fact that you said Maria seemed like the second most likely choice- my point is she's hardly the only option for later leaders, or the best really.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Exciting! As someone who has been away from these forums for a bit, which civs/region has the soft leak said will be included in pack 5? Or is this the same as the "Venice means Portugal" information?

Asia (probably). If I remember correctly, in the last patch, there was a file where it was written about Vietnam and Kubilai Khan. We supposed it was pack 5 because it's the only one with one civ and two rulers (meaning a ruler for another preexisting civ), and Kubilai Khan has been supposed to be a dual leader for both China and Mongolia. We already kind of knew it was Kubilai Khan because pack #5 needed Rise and Fall, not Gathering Storm; the only difference between the two is the Civs (because all mechanics from R&F have been added in GS: loyalty, governors...). This must mean the alt leader would be for a civ from R&F. Mapuches/Scotland/Cree/Georgia are great but not the kind of civs that would need a second leader before, says, China, Egypt, Rome, Germany or India (I refuse to see Gandhi as a true alt leader). An alt leader for Netherlands, Korea or Zulus would be neat (and asked) but 1) Netherlands are a maritime trade civ and another leader would not bring new experience 2) same for Zulu and warfare 3) same for Korea and science. The only choice is Mongolia.

Now we go further into the speculation thread but there was a LUA/CUA that has been in some files for a while being "Gain a free Eureka and Inspiration each time you finish a Trade Route". It would be perfect for Kubilai Khan, first for historical reasons (he used the Silk Road as a way to improve cultural/scientific exchange between Orient and Occident) and secondly and most importantly for me, it would synergize incredibly well with both Mongolia and China CUA.

China: gain +10% from eurekas and inspirations, meaning that if you gain some free they would be free 50% to a tech and civic each time you end a trade route.
Mongolia: Örtöö is already a CUA pretty much entirely focused around trade routes (trade post at the beginning rather than the end, bigger diplomatic visibility from trade posts), so having on top of that another LUA revolving around trade routes would be the cherry on the cake.

I really hope I'm right about this, but it screams to be in the game. It would be an incredibly simple yet incredibly effective and fun mechanics without it needing to be overly complicated. A perfect design, if you want my opinion.

 

[Vilvatiktan]

Asia (probably). If I remember correctly, in the last patch, there was a file where it was written about Vietnam and Kubilai Khan. We supposed it was pack 5 because it's the only one with one civ and two rulers (meaning a ruler for another preexisting civ), and Kubilai Khan has been supposed to be a dual leader for both China and Mongolia. We already kind of knew it was Kubilai Khan because pack #5 needed Rise and Fall, not Gathering Storm; the only difference between the two is the Civs (because all mechanics from R&F have been added in GS: loyalty, governors...). This must mean the alt leader would be for a civ from GS. Mapuches/Scotland/Cree/Georgia are great but not the kind of civs that would need a second leader before, says, China, Egypt, Rome, Germany or India (I refuse to see Gandhi as a true alt leader). An alt leader for Netherlands, Korea or Zulus would be neat (and asked) but 1) Netherlands are a maritime trade civ and another leader would not bring new experience 2) same for Zulu and warfare 3) same for Korea and science. The only choice is Mongolia.

Now we go further into the speculation thread but there was a LUA/CUA that has been in some files for a while being "Gain a free Eureka and Inspiration each time you finish a Trade Route". It would be perfect for Kubilai Khan, first for historical reasons (he used the Silk Road as a way to improve cultural/scientific exchange between Orient and Occident) and secondly and most importantly for me, it would synergize incredibly well with both Mongolia and China CUA.

China: gain +10% from eurekas and inspirations, meaning that if you gain some free they would be free 50% to a tech and civic each time you end a trade route.
Mongolia: Örtöö is already a CUA pretty much entirely focused around trade routes (trade post at the beginning rather than the end, bigger diplomatic visibility from trade posts), so having on top of that another LUA revolving around trade routes would be the cherry on the cake.

I really hope I'm right about this, but it screams to be in the game. It would be an incredibly simple yet incredibly effective and fun mechanics without it needing to be overly complicated. A perfect design, if you want my opinion.

Woa this is a really great analysis and explanation. I hope we'll see this in the game too!

 

[FinalDoomsday]

I would love Goths with some kind of 'Inheritors of Rome' where they could get the culture or science of civs they conquer? Maybe a bit like Assyria in civ 5. They could also do something with dark ages.

Hope at least one civ brings a new architcture style or at least some more love to the art side of the game.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Asia (probably). If I remember correctly, in the last patch, there was a file where it was written about Vietnam and Kubilai Khan. We supposed it was pack 5 because it's the only one with one civ and two rulers (meaning a ruler for another preexisting civ), and Kubilai Khan has been supposed to be a dual leader for both China and Mongolia. We already kind of knew it was Kubilai Khan because pack #5 needed Rise and Fall, not Gathering Storm; the only difference between the two is the Civs (because all mechanics from R&F have been added in GS: loyalty, governors...). This must mean the alt leader would be for a civ from GS. Mapuches/Scotland/Cree/Georgia are great but not the kind of civs that would need a second leader before, says, China, Egypt, Rome, Germany or India (I refuse to see Gandhi as a true alt leader). An alt leader for Netherlands, Korea or Zulus would be neat (and asked) but 1) Netherlands are a maritime trade civ and another leader would not bring new experience 2) same for Zulu and warfare 3) same for Korea and science. The only choice is Mongolia.

Now we go further into the speculation thread but there was a LUA/CUA that has been in some files for a while being "Gain a free Eureka and Inspiration each time you finish a Trade Route". It would be perfect for Kubilai Khan, first for historical reasons (he used the Silk Road as a way to improve cultural/scientific exchange between Orient and Occident) and secondly and most importantly for me, it would synergize incredibly well with both Mongolia and China CUA.

China: gain +10% from eurekas and inspirations, meaning that if you gain some free they would be free 50% to a tech and civic each time you end a trade route.
Mongolia: Örtöö is already a CUA pretty much entirely focused around trade routes (trade post at the beginning rather than the end, bigger diplomatic visibility from trade posts), so having on top of that another LUA revolving around trade routes would be the cherry on the cake.

I really hope I'm right about this, but it screams to be in the game. It would be an incredibly simple yet incredibly effective and fun mechanics without it needing to be overly complicated. A perfect design, if you want my opinion.

I...actually don't think the leaked ability will be for Kublai, for two reasons:

1) It actually synergizes too well and practically breaks both civs. So far I don't think any alternate leaders have abilities which directly compound with civ abilities to that extent.

2) Silk road feels like an ability that would grant luxuries or diplomacy, whereas the leaked ability is more about techs/civics. It just feels flavorfully off if that was what they were going for (especially for Mongolia), whereas I could totally believe the leaked ability works for a civ we would expect to have an edge on eurekas/inspirations like Byzantium or Italy.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

snip

This is probably the best summary and analysis I've seen about the upcoming Pack 5 DLC here. If anyone has questions on why Mongolia and how do we know, I'll refer them to this post.

 

[Leucarum]

1) It actually synergizes too well and practically breaks both civs. So far I don't think any alternate leaders have abilities which directly compound with civ abilities to that extent.

On the other hand when talking about game balance in NFP we have exhibit B. B stands for Bolivar...

 

[PhoenicianGold]

On the other hand when talking about game balance in NFP we have exhibit B. B stands for Bolivar...

Except the two broken aspects of GC don't directly compound. Ejercito Patriota buffs all units indiscriminately so is equally a civilian unit buff. And Commandante Generals are just an op unit that GC has too much access to. Both are broken ideas in isolation but neither pointedly interacts and conflates the other, like say great persons getting additional movement from EP or units that move their full range getting adjacency bonuses from CGs.

A design decision like that would be so hamfisted because it would not only encourage Mongolia and China to lean harder into narrow playstyles they already favor, but also completely obviate Genghis and Qin as leaders.

 

[pokiehl]

@Republic of San Montuoso I was thinking before that the eureka from trade routes would suit Portugal. But you're absolutely right, it would have synergy with both Mongolia and China. That'd be a really elegant design. Hopefully you're right!