civIV Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire (RFRE)

I tired that picture, but it's tall so looks too fat from the simple conversion utility I've been using :/


Still cleaning up. The navy has been pruned down to what was in civIII (mostly quinqueremes). Regular wonder + improvement expirations have been added. The timer tech tree has been fully generated. Added castrum * + associated units (eg castrum celtica + miles celtica). Rome only has a handful more units to add (allied germanic, sagitarius, cataphract, stratios), but these aren't needed now anyway. The enemies are only ~50% sorted out so far.

Auxilliary troops which were spawned in civIII will cost no support, have to be built (are cheap) in the presence of a suitable castra, but will be limited in number (ie national units). Servus will also be national units. Slaves will be unlimited, but slow, and only after suitable python code is added. Other exciting python will be (at least based on) the real forts mod. This is how the limes forts + (radio tower) castums can be handled. This is much later, but it's nice to see it is possible.

next up to do:
figure out why Rome isn't in the "era_rise_of_rome"...
figure out some "great library" python code
figure out how to implement min/max research times
figure out AI relations (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=177450) and contacts [causes 30% crashes when Roman, Carthage works every time]
figure out what controlls maintinence cost.. Carthage starts at -58gpt @ 100% research with 12 cities.

Overall I think it's >80% done with the straight port (same tech tree, same units, same..). 1 more day to sort out the rest of the units, and then hopefully just 1 day to figure out how to get research working, and then 1-2 days of basic tuning before a phase1 release :cool:
 
Not yet, but I'm pretty sure it will be necessary just for the # of civilizations. The great generals have already taken care of (heros/armies), so that will have to be crippled somehow..

Is the differnece just some more XML tags? If so it will be very easy to write a conversion script, esp if someone has a list of all the differences.
 
It's distressing how just xml and the map can CTD civ4 so much :mad: It would be grand if *anything* got logged, so progress has been slow of late. I thought all of the CTDs wouldn't come till the custom python code was added :/

AI Autoplay has been installed to help with quick testing :D Pyyrus is still to difficult for the AI to defeat rapidly. More legions!
 
The xml and map are complete enough for phase1. However, some python is necessary before the mod will be functional.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4560451#post4560451

I'm hoping for some help with this. For example, onTechAcquired sounds helpful, but it's triggered after the tech is aquired, so doesn't actually show how to give a tech :(

That said, the player doesn't need to know the early timer events, so right now the game is basically playable up to the 2nd punic war. Hannibal spawning code does not exist yet, but AmRev provides example code so that shouldn't be too hard. AIautoplay is able to defeat Pyrrus most of the time, but niether AI will instigate the 1st Punic War, despite being furious. Ballance needs work (I've played through the 1st Punic War, but that is it), and there is missing text, more units to be added, etc.. but it is mostly there.

If anyone is interested in playing around with this I'll post it. Right now I'm looking for adjusting production costs, and basic map edits.
 
Primordial Stew, I can't help you with the modding (much beyond my capacity), but be sure I am also quite curious on what RFRE will give in Civ IV. Don't give up; I am sure there will be a lot of feedback as soon as you can upload an alpha!

EDIT: Didn't mean to kill the thread though :blush:!
 
The rfre "Great Library" function is working :cool:

Now to figure out how to implement min research times.. a big question in that is how to store variables. While the game is running it isn't a problem, but suppose the player researches for 6 turns, and then re-loads the game. How does the game know there should be at least 6 turns left?????

Another example is randomizing events. I would like some variance on when the event actually happens, but how to make it so they are not missed?

The only thing I can think of is to create a building off in some unreachable barbarian city (surrounded by mountains) in which status buildings can be created. When the event is created, a building is added to that city.

But for a min of 12 turns for research that won't work. Do I need to hard code in the allowable turns when research can be completed? This won't strickly enforce a min of 12 turns for a given tech, but over all techs it will work out. Basically the player can't get ahead, but if has fallen behind it will be possible to catch up.
 
I'm afraid I can't help you there. I don't know anything about XML coding. Makes me wish for a civ4 editor like in civ3.
 
Some editors would be nice, like for the tech tree, and a better map editor too. But I think most would simply like (more) documentation on the games functions and data types.

enslaving is working, except that 3 slaves are generated each time.. only 1 entry in the log, but 3 slaves are generated :confused: I let AIautoplay go for 10 turns and now there are slaves everywhere! Just like the AI, 1/job, and at slave work rates it will take a long time to get anything done.

Events are working. Hannibal's invasion and Spartacus' revolt are now occuring :mischief: The Social War needs to be added. Unfortunately I've not played the 100BC scenario yet :/


The 2 big python projects coming up are the min 12 turn, and dealing with the civ # limitation. civIV provides slots for 18 civs (+ barbs), so my plan for now is to make sections barbarian (or maybe a placeholder civ?) and then convert them into nations when slots become available. For example Caspia Gallia, Epolites, Carthage, Hispania, Magna Gaceia all should be dead in the first 150 turns, so that makes room for the Cimbii, etc.. Numidia turns into the Vandals, Persia turns into the Sassinds, Scythia turns into.. Hopefully this is just more python, otherwise I'll have to employ some help. Rhyes mod does what is necessary. Maybe there is a mod component?

Woodelf created a building for the CircusMaxiumus/Hippodromus :cool: but no hits on getting a variety of legion graphics. There are a few other same-era mods not released yet (eg SPQR), but they're not posting art independently. Not much to do here but wait and hope usefull stuff pops up.
 
Here is the Civfanatics file database link:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2965


This is a version of rfre to show where it is at. The primary motivation being to get some help with various parts of this! Like art, python, ballance, history... lots of potential for input!

A toned down Spartacus will fire around 268BC, this is just to show an event in action. Hannibal should fire around his historical time if you actually play that far.

The most obvious thing wrong is the game runs slow. The next is ensalving slaves creates 3 instead of just 1. Servus Seditious enslaving only creates 1 unit, but for some reason 3 slaves are created :confused: Both are probobly simple solutions to someone more familiar with python and the game.

The mod was founded on the TAM mod files, but most things have been changed already. The leaderheads all come from the AnnoLHstatic file. Various graphics have been pulled from the Civfanatics file database (eg spartan hoplite, circus maximus, armenian legion), and some buttons I've converted over from civIII rfre using the GIMP. AIautoplay is included. To utilize it just use the key combo "ctrl+shift+x".


Here are some things needing work:
1. fix whatever python problem is making the game slow
2. fix slavery
3. evaluate production costs vs actual production
4. figure out the python to enforce a min of 12 turns for research
5. disease/plague python code - simulate disease. A common occurance which could devastate cities, as well as armies. As trade blossomed, so did disease.
6. art, art, art. Unit graphics (eg early legion) are the most important, but buildings (eg Pantheon) are welcome too!
7. figure out how to make civil war useful
8. set war weariness appropriately. It takes too long as is.
 
I have actually downloaded the files and gave it a very quick try before getting back to my mailbox. Very impressed on how fast you put all these things together. My only comment at this stage is very fundamental. I understand you like RFRE Civ3, I am proud of that :), but do you really need to stick to this funny mechanisms we had set in place for the Civ3 version, considering the game engine limitation then? I understand Civ4 can be coded to do about anything we like right? E.g. 12 turns limit research in Civ4 - why not rather grouping the "techs" by period, and giving a bonus or penalty to the research consiering if the player it late or too advanced compared to history? Or things like the governments (hostile, amiable), these were making sense only in the Civ3 context. I guess there must be better way to ensure animosities and friendship through coding no?! This probably sum up how little I know about Civ4. I wish I had time to learn. Anyway, I repeat, great work on having that alpha available. Now, I hope 1 or 2 veterans with Phyton will step forward to help.
 
That is a good part of why the tech tree isn't all there, and why I wanted to post something reasonable before going too far in the civIII direction. As is goverments really only sets how many free units there can be, and worker rate, and GPP rate. Civil war as a govt will most likely go away, since useful things can't be tied to the govt, but the battles during those civil wars will indeed become live via python. I have the basic framework setup now, so adding stuff is pretty easy. This will be all brand new stuff, "legio seditious", etc.. It's very easy to add variataion to the events, which turn, warning/no warning, how many units, which units, this is all very easy to do. For example the servus seditious can enslave to another, or a miles celticus, or a tribe, or even a horse. This was always a big debate in civIII since enslaving to the same could result in geometric catastrophies. This could still happen, but only if you are very unlucky!

Monarchy, or hostile monarchy probobly won't matter in civIV, but in Warlords it can probobly be used to determine who can become a vassal.

I've just started converting some of the civIII graphics to buttons since there just isn't enough appropriate unit art avaiable, so everything was looking the same :( Just look at how many "praetorian" units there are! The legio button does show what I hope to get a graphic of someday!

Relations can be set in python by modifying the attitude. If you contact Numidia you will find them very friendly. Carthage is predispositioned against Rome, and Iberia. I really want them to exapand into Iberia as they did. In the map Carthage is set to be furious with Rome, but after playing (AIautoplay!) for some 50 turns, still no war :/ Soon I'll try worsening the attitude each turn and see how that leads to war. Scicily needs more resources so the AI will be willing to fight harder for it. Maybe some olives, and salt if I can find some graphic.

It's probobly not much work to setup virtual vassals. Just keep giving + attitude. If the civ is very friendly they will give open borders, and give resources for free, which may be enough. The problem then is the civ # limit. Civs need to die so thier slot can be recycled!! Maybe there is some way to get them to disband thier army so they can be conquered in a turn??
 
As Pink said, I had the same general impression that you were trying to imitate civ3 a bit too much, especially in the tech tree form. I had thought of a way where there is no effective research. Instead, all "techs" are given at a precise date or after certain events such as the fall of Cartage. Research never really made sense in RFRE as it was in fact history. Thus, the research function can be used for something else, such as "Great projects" or "Special powers". Suppose that your research tree is only 20-30 techs and for example, the first would upgrade all your trireme into corvus. The second could be giving Legios +25% against mounted units. With no particular prerequisite, it would let the player choose his own way : you want to invade Persia before Egypt? Then, research "Mesopotamia" which give gold bonus for mesopotamian cities instead of "Cleopatra" which give Egypt some of your Legios (they can't resist her beauty...) but makes Egypt become a vassal states if you capture the capital (which is more or less what happenned after Cleopatra killed herself).
It would allow more flexibility instead of always conquering ennemies in a particular order. Of course, don't ask me how, I know nothing about anything in Civ4, just that it allows me to make the most outrageous demands and actually expect you do code all that bug free by tomorrow morning :D .

I'll check out what you did so far during the weekend :) .
 
I didn't like research in the Rise of Rome, or in Alexander (or the complete lack of research in the American Revolution). Just research new promotions, yay. IMHO the research is a tie to the timeline, it tells the story. To keep on track wo/ going bankrupt the player must build schools/biblotecha/etc.. why else would these be built? In civIII there was the same issue with government type. I always skipped the Principate govt, just ride the Triumvirate till Absolute Principate is available! The high WW was too much to bear (same with Christian Principate) since we were almost always at war, and the 6 turns of civil war just to change.. it didn't make sense to me. This can be fixed by forcing the govt when the tech is aquired. Anarchy is set per civic, so going into a Triumvirate can take a few turns, but going to Principate can just be a single turn. So even when things look the same, they really will be different. No need to build a wonder to get Spartacus, he's coming no matter what! A crisis in the 3rd centrury, wait and see!


Lets explore a grouped and parallelized tech tree. All techs in a group need to be researched before the next group can be started. This would make it all look like what follows the Age of Augustus. There would be parallel options, and then a synch point.

Suppose each thing was broken out into it's own track. The legion track could be:
1. leadership & tactics
2. non-citizen recruitment
3. professional army
4. feodatori recruitment
5. mobile reserves
6. farmer soldiers

Naval:
1. land tactics at sea
2. profesional navy
3. greek fire

Slavery:
1. entertainment OR latifundia

Urban:
1. roads (+1 trade route)
2. city planning (lower building costs) OR preator
3. water mastery (+2 health, +1 culture)
4. city guard (lower maintinence?)
5. move capital OR improved city defenses (aka soldier emperors)
6. greek fire (+15% city defense)

etc...

Under such an arrangement beakers would be throttled as is done with the AI, so that all research takes 12 turns. Just pick what you want next.

civIII had 40 things to research. There would need to be a similar number. What could they be??? And which techs would survive as the synch points?

ex) Crisis till Christian Faith
move capital
mobile reserves
foedatori recruitment
soldier emperors (pallisades + soldier emperors city def bonus)


It would only take a good hour to re-vamp the tech tree and other related XML changes. That is, once a suitable tree is planned out!


Any thoughts on play yet?
 
Ok I just played a couple of turn and here are my main thoughts :

1) Tech tree : whatever happens with it, make the place between the roman techs shorter! Why are the 2 last techs so far away that you got almost to scroll during 2-3 minutes to see them ;) ? Just need a bit of reordering. Also, some techs got so many things in them that the little pictures of buildings/units given are going over the next techs. For the cost of the first tech, I believe it is okay. 11 turns at 90% and 13 at 80% doing -3gpt and +1 respectively.

2) Speed : I really don't understand why it is so slow simply to move my units. It seems that their is a lag of about 2-3 sec between when I right click a unit to move it and the moment I see the white thing saying the number of turns to go there. Maybe it is an issue with too many coding : if the comp must check every turn things such as where certain units are or if certain things have happened, it is going to slow down the entire game. And I don't want even to think about the nightmare this is going to cause when we have all the cities placed.

3) Buildings : I was surprised to see all the buildings available to me! I understand most of these are from TAM but some of them souldn't be buildable by the Romans. Ex : burial mound which seems more like a barb building or Obelisk which should be Egyptian. Also, I can build 3 obsolete wonders from the start, mainly Stonehenge, Oracle and the Tower of Babel. You also forgot to add the religious temple for Rome and its monastery to convert other cities to Roman faith.

4) Slaves revolt : Perharps you should rename this as in RFRE civ 3, it was a Peltastae Samniti which spawned and servus seditiosus spawned if the first unit was victorious in combat. A more apropriate name would be local tribes revolt. Also a little bug : a tribus barbarus appeared with the Servus seditiosus. I don't know if it is intentional or not.

5) Units : The missionary for the roman faith doesn't exist so I can't spread my faith. The multiple bonus/minus that all units receive can become confusing at times as I don't know who is a light/medium/heavy unit. I also think that you could add perhaps another velites in every city and add a Legio up north at start. The hero/consular lego unit is cool but not that powerful. Basically it only add +20% withdrawal chance and +20 strength. Maybe add directly 1 or 2 attack power to make the legio go from 7 to 9. The ram and siege towers are cool but you should allow more of them. 2 rams and 2 siege towers will not be enough when faec with multiple fronts war such as taking on Greece and Iberia or Gaul and Parthia.

6) Battles : The battle with Pyrrus is well balanced. I didn't lose any units althought it came close. It takes then 3 turns to take out their 2 cities if you ahve no initial loss. I haven't started the Punic war yet but I'll tell more later on.

7) Religions : too many religions in the state religion panel makes them go over the screen to the right. Also, it makes everyone hate me since we all have different religions.

8) Diplo : I can't do anything here. Everyone is cautious with me and no one wnats to trade maps or open borders. Since there is also no ressource to trade and no one has gold, it is a bit boring on that level.

9)Civics : The governements civics are a bit redondant. Plus, there is only one which is good, namely the Republic. The legal needs to be revamped. There was a justice system in Rome at 275Bc and it wasn't barbarism. Perhaps a good starting legal civic for every civilized nation would be "Court of law" (low upkeep, +10% commerce in every city because people are more willing to trade if their rights are somewhat protected). As a nation expands like Rome, Praetor would be needed to supress the growing city upkeep. Then, Imperial administration instead of forum. However, Imperial administration effect need to be stronger then those of Praetor, else why would I change? I propose :
Praetor --> medium upkeep, -25% distance to palace maintenance, -50% number of city maintenance
Imperial administration --> high upkeep, -10% commerce per city (corruption), -30% distance to palace maintenance, -65% number of city maitenance
Ius Civiles --> low upkeep, -15% distance to palace maintenance, -25% number of city maintenance, +100% culture, +2 happyness per city, +20% commerce, +1 trade route
Somewhere along those lines should be a nice progression from city states to Republic to Empire to Byzantine kingdom/empire.
For labor civics, I propose :
Tribalism --> no change, barbs initial civics
Peasantry --> free peasants work the field, low upkeep, +10% commerce per city as they support the economy, -1 happyness from being concripted every now and then, allows rushing with gold
Slavery --> high upkeep, +1 gold per farm/mine (they are cheap labor), -2 happyness (from citizens with no work and unhappy slaves), +100% gold upon city capture (confiscate ennemy property), +1 free slave for every 4 pop point upon city conquest, allows rushing with both pop and gold(as such this civic is supposed to be good as long as you keep capturing cities, if your momentum stops, it should start costing you a lot)
Serfdom --> medium upkeep, +50% slave rate, stops the creation of new slaves, +50% enginneer rate, -10% science per city (doesn't encourage thinking), +20% commerce per city (allows a more efficient economy than slavery), +1 food per farm/mine, +1 happyness per city (poor are convinced by the religion that they will go to heaven), allows gold rushing, -5 happyness per city in civ that do not have serfdom (this ensure that barbs eventually change from migration civic to serfdom)
Migration --> no change, barb invasion time civic
For economy :
Traditional --> barb initial civic, low upkeep, -1 trade routes
Coinage --> civilized starting civics, low upkeep, +1 trade routes, +10% commerce in 6 biggest city (big cities are natural commercial center)
Plutocracy --> Rome's economy has developed to a new level, medium upkeep, +20% commerce per cities, +5% science, no foreign trade routes, -1 happyness per city (resentement toward the ruing class), +1 gold per cottage/hamlet/village/town, +25% hammers when constructing a building
Centralization --> Rome is supported by the provinces (Pax Romana), high upkeep, +60% commerce in 15 biggest city, -10% commerce in every city, +6 happyness in 15 biggest city, -2 happyness per city, no foreign trade routes, +1 trade route per city, +2 gold per village/town, +50% war wearinness, +1 food for workshop
Aristocracy --> warrior-class aristocracy, answer to the barbs advance, medium upkeep, -4 healthyness per city (toward the end, rich people preferred to make huge offerings to God and build temples rather than build public bath and such), -10% number of city maintenance, +25% military unit production, -50% war wearinness, roads give +1 commerce (hopefully, barbs will take care of remaining roads :) ) as they became vital mean of communication/movement, +1 hammer per village/town, +25% rate of return when building wealth in a city (meaning instead of converting 50% hammers into gold, you get 75% converted)
For Religious :
Druidic/barbarous faith --> low upkeep, barb starting civic, +50% culture
Organized religion --> starting civics for most civilized civs, low upkeep, -75% temple/sancutaries/whatever-religious-building build cost in city with your religion, missionaries can be built without a monastery, double happyness effect of temple, temple/monastery produce 1 gold if it is your sate religion, -1 gold if it is not
Theocracy --> high upkeep, -20% science, +6 happyness per city (we all go to heaven!), -2 diplo with every civ (your people is feeling too superior toward others), +1 food per farm/mine/workshop (make babies, lots of them, and work to feed them! so says god), unlimited priests specialists, -10 happyness in city without your religion, +4 exp per new units, no non state religion spread, +10% for units defending a city with your religion
God king --> medium upkeep, ???, haven't thought that one out
Free religion ??? Crusade??? I really don't know for a fifth
I just realised that I forgot to play with the number of specialists! Maybe free merchants for some or free artists, etc.
What would be interesting also is a 6 column with military civics. Mainly, they could change waht happens with newly conquered cities or change the way you produce your army (1 gpt cost per unit for this civic and 2 gpt cost for this civic) I won't lauch myself into that one for now.

10) Cartage accepted to give me 2 gpt in tribute when I asked. I think they think they aren't strong enough to declare war on Rome. Perhaps giving them the equivalent of animus barbarus would help or making the city of Messana a high priority with them.

That's all for now. I can tell you more later. I hoped it helped :) .
 
Just forgot :
11) Promotions : Legio can't get city assault? why not? ram and siege towers can get city assault even though they can't attack. Little bug here I think.
 
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