civIV Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire (RFRE)

[Ajidica]

1>I didn't see zoroastrianism in any of their cities. It still doesn't explain why the first religion they converted to was Olympian Gods. I could see them converting to Christianity as it is very powerful in game.
2>I just wanted to make sure Arianism didn't fall off your radar.
3>I don't think the WRE expelled all of the goths from the balkans, but regardless, Rome didn't keep two field armies in Thrace and the Balkans because they looked pretty. There needs to be a reason for the ERE to keep their legions there.
4>I think the wealthiness derives out of them having no initial enemies. Persia is too busy with the hunnic strikers and the Goths just sort of sit there.
5>I mistyped, I wan't getting the troops out of the alliances, but I was halfway to finishing the Justinian tech in 450, a bit too early.
6>When I checked worldbuilder I didn't see alaric, and when I played as the WRE in my AAR, I didn't get alaric. (I am still playing p9, I haven't been able to dl p10 as the site hates me.)
7>After thinking about it, I'm not sure if Persia needs to be stronger if they attack earlier. I was able to build moenia and fortresses so I was able to repell almost any persian attack. I can't seem to find the latin name of fortresses, but fossa (ring of ditches) might work.

Pseudo-bugs:
1>The vandals are key to the Huns. The Vandals should be given more units because currently they just get holed up in Kimberi and don't ravenge Gaul, leaving it open to the Huns. The WRE should also get a few barbarian units at Flavius Aetius was able to persuade the Franks and the Visigoths to loan him parts of their armies to repell the huns.
5>Okay, it just feels sort of empty looking up there.
7>It was just an idea I had as it was a bit odd for me to be able to build Comitatenses in the middle of Asia Minor. This is also tied in with the lack of early war for the ERE though.
>With the second screenshot, I meant to show the Saxons invading england. It didn't appear like you scripted them (The had no unique names), so I was impressed with history repeating itself. I already knew how to handle the black improvement issue.

 

[primordial stew]

>> 5>I mistyped, I wan't getting the troops out of the alliances, but I was halfway to finishing the Justinian tech in 450, a bit too early.

Oh, that is because both WRE and ERE are advancing the counter. There is a fix posted on page 43.


> I haven't been able to dl p10 as the site hates me

ok, try this:
http://www.filefront.com/14985477/RFRE.beta1p10.7z/

And attached is the latest rfre.py. It removes the Jewish revolt from the 1st turn of the 200AD scenario (was debugging this, forgot to remove it), and gives the Vandals an unconquerable city. The easy was to eliminate the vandals was to let them take a city, and then take it back before they took another. This wipes out any civ... so the workaround is to give them a city in the mountains that no on can get to.

Also fixed in this is the double advancement of the Roman tech counter (both WRE and ERE were advancing it each turn).

> >With the second screenshot, I meant to show the Saxons invading england. It didn't appear like you scripted them (The had no unique names)

They are "Saxons" until they reach their objective, and then they get renamed to nothing. Not all of them actually reach it, so some might keep the name.

 

[primordial stew]

Blitz!

> I was really suprised at how far along this has come and how close in intent this Mod is to RFRE.

Well, I have been at it for 3 years! Not full time, but it has actually been that long. And lucky you it's only in p10 where Hannibal is pretty much what he was. He he, let me know what you think when you get that far

Also, probably go over the FAQ on page 1.


>> map

Actually if you want to just edit it and post it go ahead. Or put together a list of changes.

Pink's map was expanded in some areas (like Greece) and was larger, so some things have to be mashed into the available area.


>> -somebody probably has mentioned this, but the ships / sea units seem to use cannon-like attack animations...

Now that you mention it, it is rather strange that no one has created an animation of ships trying to ram each other, which is mainly what they did for 100s of years.


>> -are there any anti-elephant / mounted troops? it says in the Civilopedia that certain units replace spearmen, but they don't have the bonus against mounted troops, right? so mounted units are not supposed to have a direct counter? elephants are extremely powerful in this respect

The 2nd legion on does get +20% vs elephants. This represents the evolution of the manipular system where the Romans realized they could just leave channels and the elephants would just run through them.

If you play Rise of Mankind it took a similar approach around 2.6 or 2.7. The swordsman suddenly got much more powerful to where axeman and spearman don't make sense for certain lengthy periods.


>> -you probably know this, but currently, Rome doesn't need any research % and it automatically gets a tech per 12 turns..

Consider research a flat tax

It avoids the big problem of trying to get the beakers set right so that the game is both playable (even if you are behind) and the treasury doesn't explode too much (well it did in p9, but that should be under control now).

 

[Rathvilly]

Played this a couple of times and get a crash when resistance ends in last reconquered Gallic Empire City (11 of 11) - something to do with reverting back ? I realise this is a work in progress and its really neat by the way !

I'm only an occasional CIV IV player and this plays quite different to Pink's RFRE - I have to relearn things but was really keen to try this. Maybe some time in the future a few walk throughs ? Once again great stuff !

 

[primordial stew]

> Played this a couple of times and get a crash when resistance ends in last reconquered Gallic Empire City (11 of 11)

Can you post a savegame prior to this?


> Maybe some time in the future a few walk throughs ?

Ajidica posted an after action report (AAR), which is the closest thing. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8410044#post8410044

Overall it should progress something like history, so that is a pretty good guide Not everything can be done, and some parts are missing or different. Like the Gallic campaign always takes too long, and the war against Numidia tends to get pushed way back. The war against Aegyptus/Antony will play out properly. He marched a few legions into Greece, but got surrounded and had to flee by ship. Agrippa was there to destroy his fleet, although he and Cleopatra broke out and made it back to Alexandria. With the naval loss Antony's army began deserting, so when Augustus arrived in Aegypt there was no one to fight. In game turns you need to defeat Antony's fleet and then Aegyptus becomes yours. Note that you will need to ship some troops down to keep order.

Vassals are enabled with the Philosophy and Poetry tech. Historically the Romans were spread very thin around the 100BC time, which is around when you can get this tech. So they took on vassals (client Kings) till they could absorb all the territory. Try to get involved in the Greek wars, and give them resources to gain favor. Your most potent enemies will never become vassals (Persia, Germania), but Thrace/Bithnia/Galatia... it is possible. Pergamum and Judea will automatically become your vassals at the appropriate time.

The Jews will revolt too! Actually there are quite a few revolts. That is probably the biggest difference from civIII.

 

[Ajidica]

>An idea on making the WRE fall: Around 460, (when attila should be on the defensive) the Visigoths should be set to go to war with the WRE and gain a few units in the pyrennies becuase the mainly went south. Gaul was to devestated. I don't know if we should have the franks go to war because although they were invading the WRE, it was in the classic barb style of smash and raid. Besides, I like the little WRE holdout in Gaul. It reminds me of the Empire of Syagrius.
>I personaly feel the Visigoths should loose their northernmost spawn city and gain one in spain to prompt them to move south.
>In addition, a lot of actual barb units should spawn after 460 to show the disintigration of the Hun Confederation. The reconquest needs to happen.
>If you want, I can type up a few walkthroughs if you want. Any one you want to particurly see?
>I've also started work on getting RFRE a new soundtrack, mainly its by switching the era tracks. No more church chants in the rise of Rome and no more renniassance dances in the dark ages! Most of the music is coming from a Rome:Total War mod, Wars of the Diadochi.

 

[Rathvilly]

Thanks all for advice. I didn't keep a save but I'm playing the 200 AD scenario again (3rd time - its really good) and will post if the crash happens again. After that I'll have another go at the 275 BC. My initial trouble with it was I think trying to play it like Pink's Civ III. I'm collecting all the tips that have been posted in the thread so I can get a feel for the tricks. I'm guessing I don't need to obsess so much on the 12 turn thing ?. I've come across a few possible bugs/inconsistencies - is it useful to post them ? As I said I know its a work in progress so don't want to bug you with things you're probably already aware off. I'm really impresssed by the work thats gone into this !

 

[Ajidica]

Post all bugs/incosistancy reports, if only to remind pstew and me. Pstew, you still need to replace armoured slinger and slinger with the funditor art. Also, please rename armoured slinger. Slingers were rarely armoured as their job as to be light, fast, and mobile. It didn't help that they were often from the lowest class. IIRC, early rome recruited its slingers from the damnati.

The 200AD scenario is pretty fun, the immense size of the empire can be a pain though. The 200AD scenario actualy got me interested in RFRE.

I played a few turns as the Ostrogoths to test out my soundtrack, a few comments:
>Alaric did spawn, however I would make him a Visigoth. The Visigoths under alaric migrated into Italy, and then into Gaul where they settled down. IIRC, the Ostrogoths were a relativly minor tribe until the collapse of the Huns where the migrated into the ERE. The Emperor Zeno eventualy kicked them out under Theodoric (Accompanied by roman bribes)
>I was unable to get alaric into italy because of the Roman cities in the way. This wouldn't have been a problem, but Uldin took Narona(city between the Adriatic and the Alps) so I was unable to get my troops in (I cheated and made a small land bridge). The troops should also spawn further north, a bit ahistorical but since we don't have Flavius Stilicho, it fits. (IIRC the goths were already there because Stilicho was executed in 401 IIRC)
>Ravenna needs better defences! It was built on a salt marsh with immense walls surrounding it. There was a reason Honorius fled there. Currently it only gets a +25% bonus for having a cultural defense.

Pseudo-bugs:
>Chndomarius (Germanics) was a warlord around the time of Julian, about 50 years early. I'll see who I can find, but Germania was pretty quiet.
>Spawn the Heros through python, it was wierd seeing me be able to build Theodoric.

 

[Ajidica]

I have completed the soundtrack mod and have uploaded it to filefront.
Beyond Roman Glory
Pstew, please add it to the front page so it doesn't get lost in the clutter.
I gave it the name 'Beyond Roman Glory'. I don't remember where I heard it, but if someone knows where its from, please let me know so I can credit them. Theres more info in the readme. Please offer your comments on it.

I played a bit of the 400AD_Goths_in_Greece, and I like it. Thw WRE starts out more powerful than the ERE, which is relativly accurate, the west had a better military than the ERE. With the goths, there are a few things I would reccomend.
>They should be no farther south than Thermopolae and should not control Thessalonica (The city had quite impressive walls and forced the Goths back.)
>A slightly ahistorical idea is to make them ostrogoths. That way it is less likely the ERE would defeat the Visigoths in one go because they border them.
> A historical error is that Flavius Stilicho is commanding the ERE consular armies in Constantinople. He should be in the west. IIRC the magister millitum of the ERE at this time was Aspar/Aspimar. Im not really sure.

 

[primordial stew]

>> Beyond Roman Glory Pstew, please add it to the front page so it doesn't get lost in the clutter.

Done!


>> 400AD_Goths_in_Greece

My dates were off some, so it's really like a 395AD scenario. Edits stopped after realizing this..


>> Heros

The hero units in the game are all like the Consular armies in that they can be rebuilt.

Perhaps not all of them should have this ability though? Germania and Persia need to rebuild (actually Persia can only build Surena, not the later one), but for Gaul and Dacia perhaps 1 time is all?

>> Ravenna

How about the plot is just made into a hill (+20% non-destructible defense)?

 

[Ajidica]

Ravenna>That works, possibly add walls to. The Goths initialy bypassed it for 3 reasons:
1>You couldn't take the city, it was built on an island.
2>It was easy to get ERE reinforcements there.
3>It held little cultural signifigance for the Roman Empire.

Heros>My question probably is this, which Theodoric are you referring to? If it is the one that killed Odoacer the Scirii and established Ostrogothic Italy, than he should be Ostrogoth only and spawn with a decent sized stack to take the italian peninsula.

scenario start date>It might make more sense to push it back just after Adrianople. Alaric and Stilicho could finaly be given decent 'screen time', the last major civil war (Battle of the Frigidus (Frigid River), and a bunch of other important events could be included.

 

[Rathvilly]

Hi - played the Third Century scenario twice more and it crashes at the same point (save attached) - I see you recommend only playing the first 50 turns so this might not be a big deal. Only other things I noticed were minor eg Victory Conditions say the highest score at 11BC, a few missing wonder graphics, etc. This scenario is really challenging - very addictive and easy to get wrong. You have to harbour your resources, balance your economy, and fight - good stuff. One thing I notice is that you have the Avars in this scenario - shouldn't this should be the Sarmatians - who controlled the area until the arrival of the Goths? When the Huns arrived the Sarmatians became part of their confederacy and/or fled west (the Alans were one such Sarmatian tribe). The Huns were defeated by a Gepid led confederacy in 454. The Gepids in turn were largely crushed by an alliance of Lombards and Avars in 567. The Avars first appeared in the Balkans/Black Sea region during the 550s.

I read Ajidica's AAR on 400 AD WRE and so tried this out. Again it was really good - the scripted events are well done and work great. Attila in the West just happened to attack the city where most of my army was stationed - beat them reasonably easily (they did better against the ERE and were smashing through the Balkans). I actually did quite well and was reasonably effective till early 500s when I simply ran out of money to support any troops. Italy got taken and near the end ERE declared on me and invaded Italy ! Game wise how will you determine victory conditions ? Tried out the ERE and this was a lot smoother - just a war against the Huns and then pretty quiet. Not had much success with 275 BC yet - can deal with the Carthaginians but terribly behind time wise and canned the games - played up to early ADs. More practise will resolve this ! Once again thanks for all the work on this.

 

[jcb]

it looks and plays great. you guys are doing a great job.

one thing I noticed playing the 200ad scenario:
the "capture 12 gallic cities" tech/goal never goes away. after I capture the cities and the empire flips back, the tech stays in the bar (even while I advance with other techs).

other than that, keep up the good work guys.

 

[primordial stew]

it looks and plays great. you guys are doing a great job.

one thing I noticed playing the 200ad scenario:
the "capture 12 gallic cities" tech/goal never goes away. after I capture the cities and the empire flips back, the tech stays in the bar (even while I advance with other techs).

other than that, keep up the good work guys.

The Gallic city conquest counter will stay up till the Crisis ends, which is when both Gaul and Palmyra have been defeated. Or use the attachment. It will change it so that the counter goes away when just Gaul is defeated.


>> File Type: civwarlordssave Septimius Severus AD-0370.CivWarlordsSave

This is happening because the WRE is to receive troops, but WRE does not exist yet. WRE is created in 395. The techs are early. A workaround is to go into WB and unset the Christian Faith tech, and then switch research to it. That should get you pretty much back to being on time.

If you can post the turn/date you were getting the 4th century techs (Franks/Goth/Conversion/Christian), that would help. Or just post a save from around 300AD.


>> Victory conditions

Actually, there really aren't any yet. Nothing appropriate anyway. I suppose it should be based on owning a list of cities at the end. That would be easy, but how to tie that into the game victory scheme (Dan Qualye, etc) I've no idea how to do this.


>> One thing I notice is that you have the Avars in this scenario - shouldn't this should be the Sarmatians

Yes, but effectively it makes no difference so I didn't bother with that detail.

 

[jcb]

Couple more things:
1) I can't declare war on my capitulated vassals. Is is supposed to be like that?

2) The Skutatoi ability to "build farm" doesn't work. It says something like "2746457 turns to build" and doesn't build.

3) Are slaves disabled after a certain year? It becomes very difficult to redevelop resources after all the invasions without a supply of labor. Maybe build this into Skutatoi or allow more Operarii?

 

[Ajidica]

I believe no new slaves are allowed after Conversion to Constantine (It should be renamed to Conversion to Christianity or Constantines Conversion) but the legions can take care of most of the basic builds.

 

[primordial stew]

Couple more things:
1) I can't declare war on my capitulated vassals. Is is supposed to be like that?

2) The Skutatoi ability to "build farm" doesn't work. It says something like "2746457 turns to build" and doesn't build.

3) Are slaves disabled after a certain year? It becomes very difficult to redevelop resources after all the invasions without a supply of labor. Maybe build this into Skutatoi or allow more Operarii?

The iWorkRate for Skutatoi is set to 0. It should be 100 or so.

No, but only certain unit types enslave slaves. Some of the later units enslave units instead, or none at all.

 

[lorenzodercole]

Hi all,
first of all thanks for this mod.

I am playing the 275 scenario (p10) and I destroyed Hannibal Army before they conquered 4 cities and for this reason I didn't get Legio Scipio. What do you think, is it "historically" correct?
Why don't we link that unit to the conquest of Spain?

 

[Rathvilly]

Hi - playing the 275 BC scenario I got a CTD on getting Goth alliance tech (save attached). A bit annoying as I was really enjoying this game. I'm a long way behind in conquests but was making progress and pressing north. I presume it’s a similar issue to my last post - ie getting a tech slightly before I'm supposed to ? Only tech that went fast (I think) was Severan Dynasty - I was late switching to Principate and after the Anarchy I got it in one or two turns. Does research still run when you're in anarchy ? I tried unsetting the tech in WB but when I reset research to it I still get it in one turn - am I missing some step here (I'm still a bit of a CivIV noob) - do I have to click a save somewhere - ie to undo the research ? Help appreciated !
View attachment Consul AD-0285.CivWarlordsSave

 

[primordial stew]

Hi all,
first of all thanks for this mod.

I am playing the 275 scenario (p10) and I destroyed Hannibal Army before they conquered 4 cities and for this reason I didn't get Legio Scipio. What do you think, is it "historically" correct?
Why don't we link that unit to the conquest of Spain?

Is a man born who he is, or is it the journey that makes a man who he is?

From Wikipedia:
"The young Scipio survived the disastrous battles at Ticinus, Trebia, and Cannae. According to Polybius, he saved his father's life when he was 18, by "charging the encircling force alone with reckless daring" at the Battle of Ticinus [4] . Scipio's would-be father-in-law Lucius Aemilius Paullus was killed in 216 BC at the third of these battles, the Battle of Cannae. Despite these defeats at the hands of the Carthaginians, Scipio remained focused on securing Roman victory. Scipio was never again to see a Roman force defeated, for once given command at the age of 25 he never lost a battle [4][5] ."


Another way to look at is that if you're strong/focused enough to defeat Hannibal early on, then the services of Scipio are not necessary.