Civs discussion thread

[Rhye]

Etruria seems to be indeed an obstacle to Roman expansion. They make peace immediately, causing Rome to be locked in southern Italy forever.
If we want to keep Etruria playable, do you have any ideas to help Roman AI to get rid of it?

 

[Rhye]

As I've said, I'd prefer an earlier end date that eliminates the need for Byzantium and the Huns.

Actually, Huns and Germanic tribes have been the most fun thing of the games simulated so fat. They bring blood and destruction thanks to a snowball-effect

 

[Bonci]

Etruria seems to be indeed an obstacle to Roman expansion. They make peace immediately, causing Rome to be locked in southern Italy forever.
If we want to keep Etruria playable, do you have any ideas to help Roman AI to get rid of it?

is it possible to disable the peace treaties only between 2 civs?

Actually, Huns and Germanic tribes have been the most fun thing of the games simulated so fat. They bring blood and destruction thanks to a snowball-effect

so why don't have at least one germanic civilization playable?

 

[Jet]

Etruria seems to be indeed an obstacle to Roman expansion. They make peace immediately, causing Rome to be locked in southern Italy forever.
If we want to keep Etruria playable, do you have any ideas to help Roman AI to get rid of it?

In Hecataea they started at war and (I think) had a Worldbuilder attitude penalty. I adjusted the starting units until:
1. When Rome and Etruria are both AI, Rome usually wins. It often left one or two Etruscan cities as a vassal.
2. When Etruria is played by a human, you can usually whip enough Axemen to hold your border city and block the Roman invasion.

Collateral damage was a consideration. I didn't actually debug the C++ to see the exact AI effect of collateral damage units, but I did experiment in autorun tests with:
* whether Rome had the ability to build collateral damage units
* whether Rome started with some collateral damage units already built

That is partly why I put an early collateral damage unit in the tech tree: basically, 3 National Unit catapults at Masonry. I didn't want a lot of civs to start with Construction, because I wanted to lengthen the classical era, but I did want to make early wars and conquests more likely.

I did roughly the same thing with Rome and the Greek Colonies, at least for the Greek Colony cities with easy land access from Rome.

To encourage Rome to keep expanding after conquering Etruria, I gave it attitude penalties against some of its neighbors, especially Gaul. That did seem to help a little.

 

[Arkaeyn]

Etruria seems to be indeed an obstacle to Roman expansion. They make peace immediately, causing Rome to be locked in southern Italy forever.
If we want to keep Etruria playable, do you have any ideas to help Roman AI to get rid of it?

I'm not super-interested in a playable Etruria (though Zachscape certainly is). Is it possible to make it a perma-war, or would that be too deterministic?

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

or would that be too deterministic?

Yep, I think Jets above post has a good suggestion though.

 

[Rhye]

I've finally seen Rome taking over Ethiopia and Celts.
May have been the extended flip area, or the 10 turns ban for ending wars, I don't know.

 

[Omega124]

Hi Rhye!

So with the removal of the Etrurians, that leaves one civ left.

I vote the new opening to, (Yes, I'm still pushing for it) Saxons. I've made many points before, so no need to make more, but i'd highly appreacatie it if you at least consider it.

 

[Steb]

What removal of the Etrurians?

It seems Rhye has a fixation with Ethiopia over Etruria

 

[The Q-Meister]

Oh yes, I know that the limit helps with game speed, and I'm all for that. I was just wondering if it could go to 19 or 20 if need be. If we're sticking with 18...

Rhye's list again:

Egypt
Babylonia
Phoenicia
Hittites
Israel
Celts
Athens
Sparta
Persia
Macedonia
Carthage
Rome
Huns
Byzantium
Etruria (not playable, minor nation)
Germanic Tribes (not playable, minor nation)
Independent (not playable, minor nation)
Independent2 (not playable, minor nation)​

Here's what I'd change. By-and-large, civilizations in Civ4 and RFC are at some level expansionists. That is, they put pressure on or took over their neighbors. Most of these are, but not anywhere near all. Israel in particular stands out as a civ that should be an independent. I'd replace them with Assyria, a major power in the ancient middle east.

Etruria, especially as unplayable, just makes so sense. Well-defended Independent (or barbarian) cities in northern Italy would accomplish the same thing. I would replace them with an unplayable Sumerian faction, to build up cities for the Babylonians, Egyptians, Hittites, Assyrians, and Persians to pick off.

As I've said, I'd prefer an earlier end date that eliminates the need for Byzantium and the Huns. Parthia would be the most welcome addition in such a case. They take an important part of the map, and if the game works well, would be Rome's primary rival in the end-game.

I have to agree with this: Israel just doesn't work with the civ dynamics and is so radically different than almost every other civ I see it being almost impossible to implement correctly and if implemented accurately would only make it easy for another civ to conquer it so if that is the case why not make them independent and use their spot for a more expansionist civ?

 

[The Turk]

I have to agree with this: Israel just doesn't work with the civ dynamics and is so radically different than almost every other civ I see it being almost impossible to implement correctly and if implemented accurately would only make it easy for another civ to conquer it so if that is the case why not make them independent and use their spot for a more expansionist civ?

Ya I would have to agree to, I think having Israel cramped into the Levant is a bad idea, plus it will give Phoenicia more room to grow and expand (leading to a more powerful Phoenicia that will create colonies)

 

[mollari]

Why not add the minoans as a playable civ? They were far more important to early greek peoples and east Mediterranean as a whole than most people realize...

 

[The Turk]

Why not add the minoans as a playable civ? They were far more important to early greek peoples and east Mediterranean as a whole than most people realize...

Thats actually a really good suggestion, so why not just take out the Israelites and add in the Minoans, but then again, there are other more suitable civs for this mod. Mollari, what would you think would be good UHV's for the Minoans?

 

[Rhye]

Thats actually a really good suggestion, so why not just take out the Israelites and add in the Minoans, but then again, there are other more suitable civs for this mod. Mollari, what would you think would be good UHV's for the Minoans?

would a civ on a 10-tiles island be any better?

 

[Arkaeyn]

Yeah. Taking out Israel for not being expansionistic and replacing it with another non-expansionistic civ isn't going to do a whole lot. A single independent city on Crete would do roughly the same thing.

 

[The Turk]

ya i have to agree, the minoans would be good but as Rhye and Arkaeyn have said there can be problems, but I still think they can be replaced by several other countries, which would better fit this mod.

 

[onedreamer]

Etruria must be playable IMO. Etruria stops Roman expansion ? Good, that's historical. Rome fought 14 wars with Veii and in the end managed to take it after an epic siege only thanks to betrayal. I mean, the epic siege of Troy is nothing compared. Only after winning Veii Rome started to really expand in Italy.
The weakness of Etruscans was also that of the Greeks, their non unitary nature, even during wars, something that the Romans exploited. We could find a way to represent this weakness, and for City States civs in general, or implement other artificial tools, like permanent war between Rome and Etruria or an event that simulates the end of the last siege of Veii.

 

[Rhye]

As it is now, Ethiopia survives 50% of the times and creates a good empire. It all depends on how many cities flip on Roman spawn.

 

[The Turk]

As it is now, Ethiopia survives 50% of the times and creates a good empire. It all depends on how many cities flip on Roman spawn.

Ethiopia? If the map extends to Ethiopia why not include Britian and have the Celts, which would be a really cool civ to play as

 

[Bonci]

I think he means Etruria

and btw...celts are already in