Clash of the Warmongers

[ABigCivFan]

1400AD: Battle of Tenochititlan. My attack was speedy, Monty did not get a chance to rush many defenders to his capital.



1400AD: Combat log. After some collateral damage delt by the trebs, my super Cavs could kill those CG rifles with no problem. Got another GG.



1400AD: 33 GPT from the shrine!



1400AD: Another HUGE bonus from Shrine is giving valuable Military Information from all Budda (33 at the time) cities and terriories about city garrison forces and large troop movements through these surrounding territories. You do not even need spies lol. This makes my following conqesting of the Budda cities much much easier.



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1400AD: Bribed Nappy to attack Cathy, just wanna make sure her Cossacks are in check by 2 strong civs.



1400AD: Building Lumber mills in Production cities and converting all suitable tiles to cottages in commerce cities to pay for increasing maint and WW and research. Note I was building Budda and Tao missionaries from 2 cities for Shrine gold and free city views.



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1430AD: Monty send a strong counter attack force to Xochi, his forces are on a hill, I only had 1 cannon. So I retreated to the hill 1S of the city(no as indicated in the picture). I left an open city for him to take. Here are the reasons:

* 1S hill is easy to defend
* My cannon had CR promo, the bonus only applies to attacking city
* let him take the city(plain), and I could kill his units much easier by using my CR cannon and Cavs.
* I can take back the city within 1 turn with much smaller casulties.




1440AD: Monty went for the city. And I am ready to take it right back, start with CR2 cannons.



1440AD: killed 4 Rifles, 1 Cav, 1Treb and 1 cat for the loss of 1 cannon. We have to rely on superior battle tactics to offset our severe production disadvantage.




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1470AD Dem Chart: Look at the production lead, this is necessary for war on high levels. Army is about 2/3 size of the leading AI. But mine has much better quality.



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1490AD: 19 cavs+4 cannons against 9 well promoted Aztec Rifles + 3 Gren in a Hill city.



1490AD: After pounded city with CR cannons, my lvl6 cavs went in for the kill. They have very good adds even against damaged CG2, Combat3 rifles.



1490AD: After the kills and retreats, I only lost 2 cavs for capturing this city.



1490AD: I checked to see if Monty want to surrender, here is the reason he would not!?!?!? Are you kidding me? So you are not afraid of me who is sacking all your cities? Nice sense of humor Firaxis haha.



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1510AD: Nice Shrine gold with city improvement after resistance. This is without the Market yet.



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1520AD: Nappy asked me to join the war against Cathy, I accepted (phony war). Monty capitulated to Alex. Here is my forces against at another Major Aztec city. Well promoted Cavs + CR3 cannons is a great combo and it is super effective for a Charismatic army.



1520AD: Attack plan. This city is on a hill, so I attacked with 2 CR cannons first. For the toughest defender, I reserved my CR3+Guerilla3 Grenediers for a 96+ winning odds. I saved these guys just for these tough hill defenders. I always try to use the most suitable units to do the job they are designed for. This Grenediar sucks in any other battle situiation, but for this particular attack, there isn't any better unit.



1520AD: Attacked with Cannons and a few specialized Grenediars first.



1520AD: Cavs do a fine job at mopping up weakened defenders.




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1525AD: By empolying good battle tactics and careful planning, you can manage to increase the suvivalbility of your troops, especially for a Charismatic civ, that means more and faster promotions which translate to more wining battles and a sick powerful army.

Just after a few battles, I have many lvl6 cavs and CR3 cannons in my offensive forces.

With barracks+stable+Vas+Tho+1 instructor:

Defensively, I can build Combat2+Pinch, or CG3 Rifles stright from multiple barracks.

Offensively, I can build CR3 cannons, Combat2+Pinch+Formation Cavs stright from multiple barracks.

My HE/WP city is churning out 1 Combat3+Pinch+Formation Cav every 2,1,1,1,2 turns. Aggressive civs has no chance against this kind of potential.

Look at the below picture, can you count how many promotions I am getting from this 1 turn? Still anyone arguing Aggressive is better than Charismatic?




Soon to come: The great battles against Greeks and Vikings....

 

[ABigCivFan]

1525AD: WW starts to hit(Aztec war got carried over to Greek+Aztec War). Changed civics to Emancipation and OR to grow some new cottages and help building happy improving buildings and commerce buildings. Strating here, I would switch civics every 5-8 turns from Econ-war and back. Since my Mil prod cities all have capatility to produce units within 3 turns, so each cycle I could mass produce 2-3 quality units from each of these cities. It is so much fun to be able to switch All 5 categories every 5 turns to get ALL War or ALL econ civics. Spiritual is immensely powerful on high levels/large maps/Long games.




1525AD: Power Curve. I wonder how much they pay per turn for those haha. Nothing to be scard about since most of those curve represend slow moving Rifles guarding their cities. Their large stacks of Cavs are the only threat, but I have many formation Cavs ready for them.



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1535AD: The Aztec city I took got swallowed by Viking Culture. Ragnar decided to take advantage and declared on me. He Sent a large SOD of Cavs/Trebs. His cavs looks like those cheap upgrades from knights as they had Shock promos.



1535AD: Viking cavs are no match for my formation cavs.



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1550AD: Civic Change to Econ mode. Need to rush buy some courthouses, Grannary and some happy impov buildings. I think Representation+Mec is actually the best for me since I have large # of cities with Ank Wat priests as specialists which give very sorely needed hammer and gold boosts for those low prod cities. With 20 cities, 20+ GPT over Engineers is great.



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1555AD: Alex+Ragnar is tough born to chew. I Gave JC a tech to buy out his peace with Cathy(who is very weak already). And gave Steel to JC to war with Monty(Alex)+Ragnar+Shaka.



1555AD: Nappy already made peace with Cathy. I gave him steel as well to war with Ragnar+Monty(Alex). Note I bribed him against Monty, the Vassel of Alex, he would not accept had I pitched him directly against Alex, or at least for a higher gold fee. But by getting him declaring on Monty, he indirectly declare on Alex, so the result for me is the same.



1555AD: Alex and Ragnar went from Pleased with Nappy and JC to Furious. EXCELLENT!! That is what I had worked on for the whole game! Steel did the trick. Now effectively we are 3 on 3 (Me+JC+Nappy Vs. Alex+Ragnar+Shaka). This is the Ideal situiation for me since now I have true powerful allies for the rest of the game.

JC is friendly to me, Nappy is pleased. Strategically, I consider this game won at this point. But decided to play on for those fun and epic battles still to come.




1565AD: World War in full swing.




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1565AD: Alex pulled off a landing! He diverted some of my resources to defend my back door. Not bad for an AI! Again the mobility of Cavs helps a lot with these kind of contingence situiations. Gunpower defenders will not be able to get there in time in this particular situiation.



1575AD: Note I used some workers to occupy some coastal tiles so Alex could only land near my designated "kill zone". Alex landed more troops including Yamamoto! what the heck? The GG suicide Cav...... He died miserablely.....

Also Note my Research is at 0%, 70% culture to deal with huge WW. Alex's Vassling Monty did the great harm since the Aztec WW got carried over for a very long time.



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1575AD: Switched to the "Ultimate War Civics". Need to carry on the fight until I could offer peace with Alex. I have nothing to gain at this point against him. And JC and Nappy is already doing the job trimming his power.



1575AD: War productions in cities.



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1580AD: Finally Peace with Alex.




1580AD: "Hot Zone" on Ragnar's land. Everyone is putting up a fight.



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1600AD: After peace with Alex, switched civics(FS+FF) back to Research mode.



1600AD: After the civic change, research Doubled.



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1605AD: Battle of Niadros the Viking Capital. Still Cannons+Cavs are the backbone of my attack forces. Niadros fell the next turn.



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1610AD: Note the steady stream of highly-promoted reinforcing Cavs rushing to the front. They really kept the pressure on the AIs.



1610AD: My Lvl7 commando Cav in action, getting in and out of enemy territory to kill a wonded enemy cav and getting back in safety.

 

[ABigCivFan]

1615AD: The last city I took from the Vikings is extremely strategically important as it has Fur (+2 happy) and deer. So I split 2 task forces to raze those 2 viking cities to erase their culture influence over this city.

More Cavs are healing and will catch up to these 2 task forces. With my Medic3 Cav, the wounded cavs can all heal within 2 turns, and can catch up to the 2 task forces just when the cannons bring down the cultural defenses to 0%.



1615AD: Got Nappy out from his war with Ragnar. His troops are pillaging too hard and I want to preserve some mature viking cottages for myself to capture. Also I want him to focus on Alex.



1615AD: Dem Chart. Still leading prod/Land.



1615AD: Financial/Research summary. Cottages start to contribute to my research.




1615AD: Kill-Loss summary. Look what a Charismatic army in a good warmonger's hand is capable of.

You don't really need a huge army but definely a quality and well balance army. See how fast a mobil army can mow through Aztec and Viking lands. It would have been impossible for a Gren/Rifle/Cannon army to conquer at this pace on a map this size against enemies this strong.

It does not matter if you have only 1/2 the power curve of the AIs, as long as you command numeric and quality superiority at where the decisive battles occur, you will win. Fast and strong units are the best in terms of executing these battle plans.

In this particular game, there is no good counter for large numbers of highly promoted Cavs which move at twice the speed of their best counters.

From the pic we can see, it was 421 kills Vs. 68 losses or 6.2 : 1 Ratio. And all the kills are against Aggressive civs.



From here I might Vassle Ragnar, stay peaceful and go for a space victory. Not worth the time to conquer the world at this point.

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[InvisibleStalke]

Extremely impressive. Maybe I'll be convinced Charismatic>Aggressive yet. I think the Combo of Spiritual + Charismatic is pretty awesome - lots of ways of getting highly promoted units, although I love Spiritual + Aggressive too.

Anyway thanks - I have learnt a lot about high level warmongering from this thread.

 

[CivSetä]

Don't go for space, keep on fighting. We want to see more action!

 

[0R4NG3]

Great game, thanks for doing this! Good demonstration of the Cha/Spi combo.

Don't go for space, keep on fighting. We want to see more action!

Yeah I'd like him to finish it with a domination too, but considering that the game has already lasted for 49 (!!!) hours I think it is only fair for him to finish it the quickest possible way.

 

[madscientist]

Great game!!! War mongering extreme. I think you could have gotten results with any leader, it's the ability to play and utilize what is available. Bet you could have this with Ghandi!

 

[ABigCivFan]

Great game, thanks for doing this! Good demonstration of the Cha/Spi combo.
Yeah I'd like him to finish it with a domination too, but considering that the game has already lasted for 49 (!!!) hours I think it is only fair for him to finish it the quickest possible way.

Yeah, I probably already spent over 24 hrs on this game, too many decisions to make, too many little things to do to improve the winning odds. (worker actions/diplo/what to do with the 7-8 GGs/war plans & executions/city management and etc).

I leave the game running during the whole weekends whether playing or not, hence the 49 hrs timer.

I will spend some time at the beach the coming weekends, summer is short. If I find time to finish this game, will definitly post the report.

I think many of the battle tactics can be applied on all levels. Well-executed military compaign can often make up for the AI bonues, and get you out of all sorts of trouble.

 

[tycoonist]

great stuff, don't stop the conquesting!

 

[Honkoid]

Impressive indeed! You don't really want to win a space race in a game called Clash of the Warmongers, do you? Go for domination!

 

[Kev]

I agree with the masses. This has been an extremely entertaining and educational thread, and I'd love to see the battles continue into even more modern units! All this done with Brennus who I think people often turn their noses up at given what they feel are weak uniques.

Take a break and rest if you must, but I do hope that you continue with the supremely played warmongering.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Thanks for your kind words guys.

I thought about ending this game quickly because I consider this game won strategically.

Now I am motivated by your words to go full scale world domination!

I dont get to play much modern warfare since most games are determined before modern weapons are available. But I do have some unfinished business with Alex and Shaka.

I kinda feel bad about the inevitable of my good old pal JC ...

 

[tycoonist]

yay! war, war, war!

 

[ds61514]

Great Game.

I hope some of the people see how well you leveraged diplomacy here. Bribing AIs to attack other AIs is sooo fun.

 

[bluedevil99]

Absolutely terrific thread. I agree with ds61514, I was as or more impressed with your diplomacy as with the warmongering. I'm almost motivated enough to go back through the thread and count up the total wars declared/ended then ask how many of them were at your (direct or indirect) manipulation... I'll bet it would be a pretty impressive ratio.

 

[madscientist]

Excellent!!!!

 

[ABigCivFan]

Great Game.

I hope some of the people see how well you leveraged diplomacy here. Bribing AIs to attack other AIs is sooo fun.

Bribing AIs to war is the most effective way to slow down their research imo. That way I can always be sure I have slight tech lead, just enough to bribe them into the next round of World War

Without that 1 or 2 tech lead, I won't be able to bribe at all.

 

[JayBirds]

I must say I am really impressed the strategy showed in this thread. I am no where near the playing lvl that you are. But I tested the playstyle you showed here on a bit easier settings same leader. And I must say I am really impressed with my results. I haven't finished my game yet. But its pretty much over in the late 1500's. I am just mopping up the rest of the map to see how long it takes me. non customized game, Huge map, marathon game speed.

You convinced me that quality > quanity. Not to mention I have ALOT fewer losses than I am use to. So replaceing them is really easy.

I am only building my main Army from 1 city. I put HE, 2 drill instructors and west point in my biggest production city dedicated to troops only. I assigned my third Great General to a cavalry. I also Have a Warlord asleep waiting to see if I can get to fascism first. Then If I do I will settle one warlord for the 50% production bonus and the other as a drill instructor in the same city for 4 more promotion points if I get The Pentagon built.

So If I am not mistaken I should be able to give my units 5 promotions right out of the box in the near future. =D

This really should be linked in the guides section. Since it has so many gameplay visuals along with explanations. Its truly helped my game play out being a newbie to Warlords.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Great! JayBirds.

A few things I want to add.

Spiritual means easy access to War civics (The+Vas), this means less need for settling multiple instructors into 1 city. The 1st instructor is immensely more important than the subsequent instructors as he brings your troops to 2 promotions in early warfare.

The value of each additional instructor in the same city diminishes greatly as the xp required to get the next promotion is not proportional to the 2xp they each give.

GGs are rare, I almost never settle more than 1 instructor per city. On a large map, Mil Academies are very valuable as you need more troops faster in larger scale warfare.

In this particular game, Barracks+Stable+the+vas already gives 3 promotion Cavs. So having 3 Mil Academies pumping out 3 promotion Cavs fast + (HE/WP/MA+1 Instructor city) pumping out 4 promotion ANYTHING is MUCH MUCH better than the single (HE/WP/MA+4 Instructors city) pumping out one 5 promotion cavs since I do need the quantity to fight multiple foes.

So using the GGs are often dependent on settings and different situiations. But I am glad you learned something from this thread.

 

[JayBirds]

Great! JayBirds.

A few things I want to add.

Spiritual means easy access to War civics (The+Vas), this means less need for settling multiple instructors into 1 city. The 1st instructor is immensely more important than the subsequent instructors as he brings your troops to 2 promotions in early warfare.

The value of each additional instructor in the same city diminishes greatly as the xp required to get the next promotion is not proportional to the 2xp they each give.

GGs are rare, I almost never settle more than 1 instructor per city. On a large map, Mil Academies are very valuable as you need more troops faster in larger scale warfare.

In this particular game, Barracks+Stable+the+vas already gives 3 promotion Cavs. So having 3 Mil Academies pumping out 3 promotion Cavs fast + (HE/WP/MA+1 Instructor city) pumping out 4 promotion ANYTHING is MUCH MUCH better than the single (HE/WP/MA+4 Instructors city) pumping out one 5 promotion cavs since I do need the quantity to fight multiple foes.

So using the GGs are often dependent on settings and different situiations. But I am glad you learned something from this thread.

Noted I planned on spreading them out my next games to take better advantage of them. Not sure why I stacked them like that tbh. Well main reason I guess is I didn't have West Point by the time my second GG came about or all the civic's needed for +3 from just a stables. So I planted him there.

Tho I could have built westpoint in another city as well, when it became available but again wasn't thinking long term, So I didn't.

Also by then the WW was pretty much in full effect. Thanks to that Incan swapping who he vassalized to 3 or 4 times sending them to war with me. I could not bribe him with anything the call to off his crusade against me. And I didn't stop the war with his previous Vassalers because I wanted to farm GG points. Eventually I killed him off, It took awhile before I worked my offensive stack over that way. When I figured out what he was doing. He was just in a odd part of the map where tactically pulling my offensive units that far wasn't the best of options. I had hostile citys inbetween the cultural boarders of my citys that needed to be delt with to open up trade routes.

My military was far better than any of my attackers. So at that time I didn't think there was a reason to stop fighting due to the few losses I was taking.

I just turned my remaining production citys to wealth to keep my Science up along side the 5 cottage city's I owned who were already generating wealth. To get money to upgrade my existing units that were not Melee/Archer specific to gunpowder units. I had The Pyramids, so happiness wasn't a factor on my mind for trying to pause the war and take a breather. To develop a bit more.

The only reason I got away with it this game is the difficulty level. And what you pointed out wasn't to obvious in my game, because of the lower lvl for sure.

A good part of this for me I guess is. Getting 5 promotions out of the box this game will let me play around with promotion combinations and stack combinations a bit for my next game thats gonna be on a higher difficulty. So I do not have to think as much about upgrade and unit combinations.

I will definately turn the level up a few notches my next game. So mistakes like poor building/ GG placement choices are more appearant.