[RD] Colin Kaepernick

[rah]

Stop pretending it's about ability. It's all about money. If an owner thinks it's going to hurt revenue, it's an automatic decision, and that's their right.

 

[metalhead]

Sure. But their thought process in making that decision matters. As does whether that's a rational conclusion to reach. They have a right to do whatever they want. I have a right to call them out for BS and/or racism.

 

[rah]

Considering the percentage of blacks in the NFL, I'm more inclined to believe that it's not racism.
[not saying there is no racism in the NFL, just saying that money trumps it]

 

[zxcvbob]

I guess I have been living under a rock but I peek out every now and then -- I am just barely aware of the Kaepernick thing, and I don't know if he's black or white.

As far as sitting or kneeling during the flag ceremonies at a football game as a show of disrespect, that's his right when he's a spectator at a NASCAR race or whatever. But at a football game, he's being paid (and paid pretty well) to do a job. He doesn't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance nor sing the National Anthem, but he can stand out of respect for the salary he's getting.

(Didn't the whole Cleveland Browns team pull some kind of stunt like this? P-off the fans, P-off the owner, what could possibly go wrong?)

 

[onejayhawk]

Stop pretending it's about ability. It's all about money. If an owner thinks it's going to hurt revenue, it's an automatic decision, and that's their right.

BS

It's all about winning and the status that comes with it. These guys are already throwing money away to own a team. Kaepernick will not help you win.

J

 

[Commodore]

They have a right to do whatever they want. I have a right to call them out for BS and/or racism.

The fact that a bunch of other black players have done the same type of protest as Kaepernick and haven't faced any repercussions kinda kills your "OMG RACISM!!!!!" argument though...

 

[Arwon]

As far as sitting or kneeling during the flag ceremonies at a football game as a show of disrespect, that's his right when he's a spectator at a NASCAR race or whatever. But at a football game, he's being paid (and paid pretty well) to do a job. He doesn't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance nor sing the National Anthem, but he can stand out of respect for the salary he's getting.

Right but this is a completely weird take. Standing but not singing, being a participant and not a spectator, those are completely arbitrary lines about how much of the usual patriotic ritual should be observed if you don't want to observe them.

 

[Berzerker]

not really, he's an employee of the NFL, not a spectator at a Nascar event

 

[Arwon]

But they're completely arbitrary "be semi-respectful, of parts of the ritual, sometimes" lines. Why is standing important, but singing not? What about arm position, headwear, and other aspects of body language... which of those are important minimum patriotism standards and when? Why is greater patriotic ritual performance important when participating in an event versus when spectating it? What does employment status within a private entity have to do with performing patriotism in certain ways?

What if he laid on the ground face down, but sang with enthusiastic and tearful gusto while draped in an American flag?

What if he stood, but made a silly face the whole time or wore a mask or something?

What if he performed every other aspect of formal patriotic respect but sang the anthem in Spanish?

What if he stood, but chose to face Mecca or the direction of the city where the most recent police murder of a black kid took place, instead of the same way everyone else was facing?

What if he sang the anthem at another venue (perhaps at the cinema, or his kid's soccer game) but chose not to do it while at his place of employment because of views about how closely tied to military recruitment propaganda the NFL had become?

What if he stood for the Canadian anthem but then knelt for the US one?

So many arbitrary lines.

 

[zxcvbob]

It's not really all that arbitrary. Is it obvious to a casual observer that you are not participating? Kneeling during the anthem is pretty obvious. Standing but not singing nor saluting is not obvious; he can blend in.

All this would be moot if he was an extraordinarily good player. Make enough money for the owners and they'll overlook a lot of foolishness.

 

[rah]

BS

It's all about winning and the status that comes with it. These guys are already throwing money away to own a team. Kaepernick will not help you win.

J

Not all teams. The chicago bears are owned by a family that this is their income. (probably one of the main reasons they suck, by I digress)

And winning leads to more revenue also. Just another aspect of it.

 

[onejayhawk]

Fine. There is an exception. Regardless, the bulk of team owners are buying in because of the status it brings. It is a well respected hobby, like say yachting. Financially, they do poorly for the most part. Teams tend to operate very close to break-even and franchise appreciation lags the stock market severely, even "rich" teams, like the Yankees.

J

 

[rah]

For the NFL I'd need a citation of some sort for that type of claim considering now much TV money each team gets. It was my understanding that between that and the hard salary cap, that almost every team was making money.

 

[caketastydelish]

Fine. There is an exception. Regardless, the bulk of team owners are buying in because of the status it brings. It is a well respected hobby, like say yachting. Financially, they do poorly for the most part. Teams tend to operate very close to break-even and franchise appreciation lags the stock market severely, even "rich" teams, like the Yankees.

J

You should add the Green Bay packers to your list of exceptions.

 

[Lexicus]

Considering the percentage of blacks in the NFL, I'm more inclined to believe that it's not racism.
[not saying there is no racism in the NFL, just saying that money trumps it]

Out of curiosity, do you know how many NFL teams are owned by black people?

 

[onejayhawk]

Out of curiosity, do you know how many NFL teams are owned by black people?

That's more an NBA thing.

You should add the Green Bay packers to your list of exceptions.

The City of Green Bay is not an exception. More a case in point. I grant they are another instance of legacy owners, but that does not exclude them.

J

 

[Traitorfish]

As far as sitting or kneeling during the flag ceremonies at a football game as a show of disrespect, that's his right when he's a spectator at a NASCAR race or whatever. But at a football game, he's being paid (and paid pretty well) to do a job. He doesn't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance nor sing the National Anthem, but he can stand out of respect for the salary he's getting.

I think that says more about America than you ever meant it to.

 

[JollyRoger]

Wait, the anthem and flag represent the collusive salary cap?

 

[caketastydelish]

In my honest opinion an athlete not standing for their pledge/anthem at a local game is not a big deal. If it is in an international setting, like the Olympics or the US mens soccer team, or something like that, and he isn't standing for the anthem, then I'd get pissed. Everywhere in the NFL is just as American as the rest of it, so there is not an "us versus them" mentality in the first place. As far as I'm concerned since he 'represents' San Francisco (while he was still with them) he could even fly a rainbow flag, if it would make him happy.

 

[Arwon]

Playing the anthem at every single domestic sporting event does seem kind of excessive. Then again, the Australian practice of playing during the anthem only for finals is kind of a weird line, too.