Communism alive and kicking in Wales

[Cheezy the Wiz]

communism is a bad idea anywhere, communism is a way for the powerful to keep power and supress the little guy, it was seen in the USSR and is still seen in China, Korea and Vietnam, communism is evil, and will not work as long as man controls it.

From what I understand, Commie-nism is working better in Vietnam than in most other Red countries. The only famines there are the ones that we caused with Agent Blue.

 

[ParkCungHee]

whenever stalin`s evil spirit possesses a welsh politician. duh!

Gee, Stalin must be busy to explain all those communist purges, even it seperate countries and at the same time, even in countries that hated the Soviet Union, Stalin was the only bad communist, who of course wasn't a "real" communist, despite what the opinion of every involved at the time was

 

[CCA]

There is no variety: Communism is the furthest left on the political spectrum. Communists advocate for the abolishment of private property and state control of economy in a very short term... and by force, if necessary. And now to contradict myself, the Welsh Communists don't seem to be pursuing violent means to secure their position... so there appears to be two varieties of Communism. Tops.

*Sigh*

It's a simple matter of looking in wikepedia.
Lets see:
Marxism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism
Leninism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leninism
Left Communism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_communism
Council Communsim:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_communism
Religious Communism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_communism
Anarchist Communism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism
Stalinism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism
Trotskyism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism
Titoism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titoism
Maoism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maoism
Eurocommunism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocommunism

If you've been to any gathering of leftists you would know that these guys sqabble all the time.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

*Sigh* . . .
If you've been to any gathering of leftists you would know that these guys sqabble all the time.

Because everybody had a different idea on how 'the people' should rule. We seem to be misinterpreting each other. When I say 'there is no variety', I am referring to the general goal of Communism:to establish a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production. I'm not sure how many of the links you've provided can be classified as 'variety', rather than 'interpretation'. In any event, I see Stalinism and Maoism as too totallarian to be considered left-wing in any way.

...Stalin was the only bad communist, who of course wasn't a "real" communist, despite what the opinion of every involved at the time was

To quote Ozymandias J. Llewellyn: "Although one could argue that Stalin proved Fascism could exist in a Communist society..."

 

[Mega Tsunami]

Communism alive and kicking in Wales?

According to a poll in yesterday’s Times, the Communists in Wales were not even mentioned in the list and were included in ‘other’ column, the total of which is 3%.
And the total for communists in the UK as a whole is <1% (ie communism were not mentioned but the total of ‘other’ for the UK as a whole is 1%).

Hardly alive and kicking.

What did surprise me was that the Conservatives seem to be alive and kicking in Wales with voting intentions of:
Conservatives 38
Labour 31
LibDems 12

Here is the link to the Times where I got my info. If you click on the link in the first para you will get a pdf file with loads of other interesting breakdowns of voting intentions etc.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1626706.ece

 

[ParkCungHee]

To quote Ozymandias J. Llewellyn: "Although one could argue that Stalin proved Fascism could exist in a Communist society..."

One could arge that it is unwise to get political analysis from a cartoon character. Stalin was no Fascist.

 

[Norseman2]

its not, communism is not evil, the idea is great, but the problem is man, man is greedy in nature, he wants power, and if you give one man that power he will do as he pleases with it, thats why communism doesnt work, you trust all your freedoms to a group of people that you trust and in the end your poor and they are rich, want proof look at every communist nation.

How about look at every nation with a government? If man is so inherently bad, you're going to find problems everywhere, and you do. Has there been one week without a new scandal from the White House? I'm somewhat apprehensive about these "communists" in Wales, just as I have been the "communists" in almost any country. Quite rarely do they actually support communism. They usually support a more powerful government, when communism aims for statelessness. The USSR and the PRC are more like state capitalist nations than they are communist. They all faced one fundamental problem, and that's that people who want power will do anything to get and maintain it. This has been a problem in every mode of government. If these people were actual communists, they wouldn't want to get elected. They would want to teach the people of Wales that their government is corrupt as hell, just as their economic system is, and that they should overthrow it, and anyone who wants to exercise control over them. It makes me to no end when bad people use the good name of communism for their own personal greed and power.

 

[Volum]

It makes me to no end when bad people use the good name of communism for their own personal greed and power.

The good name of communism?

 

[Norseman2]

It makes me to no end when bad people use the good name of communism for their own personal greed and power.

The good name of communism?

Oh right, Russia, Vietnam, China, Cuba, France, Hungary, North Korea, Cambodia, Laos, Mozambique, Angola, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Grenada, and Nicaragua, have all had popular communist revolutions because they thought communism was a bad thing!

 

[ParkCungHee]

Oh right, Russia, Vietnam, China, Cuba, France, Hungary, North Korea, Cambodia, Laos, Mozambique, Angola, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Grenada, and Nicaragua, have all had popular communist revolutions because they thought communism was a bad thing!

Thinking its a good thing, and it Being a good thing are two totally different things.

 

[Norseman2]

Thinking its a good thing, and it Being a good thing are two totally different things.

Notice I was quoting someone who said "The good name of communism?", we are discussing opinions of communism, not communism itself.

Edit: And, as I mentioned in my first post, communism is now thought of as bad in some countries because they pretend that what happened in Russia, China etc. was actually communism. This is from people who have never read The Communist Manifesto

 

[Volum]

I believe that most countries think of communism as a "bad" thing. Thats why i found the good name of communism a bit humorous.

Thats all.

 

[Mise]

What did surprise me was that the Conservatives seem to be alive and kicking in Wales with voting intentions of:
Conservatives 38
Labour 31
LibDems 12

Here is the link to the Times where I got my info. If you click on the link in the first para you will get a pdf file with loads of other interesting breakdowns of voting intentions etc.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1626706.ece

Those results weren't from Wales they were from the whole of the UK.

A Tory victory in Wales is absolutely unthinkable. Just look at the 2003 National Assembly popular vote share:
Labour .............................. 40.0 %
Plaid Cymru ........................ 21.2 %
Conservative ...................... 19.9 %
Liberal Democrats ................ 14.1 %

 

[ParkCungHee]

Edit: And, as I mentioned in my first post, communism is now thought of as bad in some countries because they pretend that what happened in Russia, China etc. was actually communism. This is from people who have never read The Communist Manifesto

Or, people who have read the Communist Manifesto and Lenin's work.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Those results weren't from Wales they were from the whole of the UK.

A Tory victory in Wales is absolutely unthinkable. Just look at the 2003 National Assembly popular vote share:
Labour .............................. 40.0 &#37;
Plaid Cymru ........................ 21.2 %
Conservative ...................... 19.9 %
Liberal Democrats ................ 14.1 %

Ah, I see that MT is using the typical Tory/New Labour trick of distorting figures.

If you actually look at Wales and Scotland and be realistic, your'll see that most likely outcome for both places is Lib-Lab coalitions.

As for english local elections, I expect the Tories will get 40odd %, with Labour and the Lib Dems both around the 25-30% mark.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Left Communism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_communism

Left Communism! That is funny, as Communism is the left government!

 

[nonconformist]

Oh right, Russia, Vietnam, China, Cuba, France, Hungary, North Korea, Cambodia, Laos, Mozambique, Angola, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Grenada, and Nicaragua, have all had popular communist revolutions because they thought communism was a bad thing!

Edited for sure.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

Those results weren't from Wales they were from the whole of the UK.

A Tory victory in Wales is absolutely unthinkable. Just look at the 2003 National Assembly popular vote share:
Labour .............................. 40.0 %
Plaid Cymru ........................ 21.2 %
Conservative ...................... 19.9 %
Liberal Democrats ................ 14.1 %

I admit, I found it difficult to believe, but have you actually looked at the pdf?

I thought the results (of the poll) were:

UK Eng Wales Scot
Con 39 42 38 15
Lab 31 31 31 29
LD 16 17 12 13
Other 14 11 19 43

How have I misread that?

BTW – having thought about it, it was not so much ‘Tories are alive and kicking’, but more a case of ‘Labour is dead and buried’ in Wales.

Maybe they are thinking about the time Blair shouted at the TV (when Labour lost a by-election to independent whassisname): “F****** Welsh” (without the asterisks).

 

[Mise]

I admit, I found it difficult to believe, but have you actually looked at the pdf?

I thought the results (of the poll) were:

UK Eng Wales Scot
Con 39 42 38 15
Lab 31 31 31 29
LD 16 17 12 13
Other 14 11 19 43

How have I misread that?

I didn't look at the PDF, just the article (which commented on the whole of the UK, not just Wales). Your post was correct, then.

However, one thing to note is that the sample size of the poll was 2200, but only 114 of those polled were Welsh. The minimum sample size for this sort of thing is 1000, as the error is ~3&#37;; the error in a sample size of 114 is ~9%, which is a huge error for a poll like this! It means that the Con vote is 38% +/- 9%, in other words, somewhere between 29% and 47%. I doubt you can draw any meaningful conclusions from the poll about what will happen next election.

If you can find a poll of Welsh voters (i.e. a poll where the sample size is > 1000), then I'd like to see it . I will not, however, be taking a Tory defeat in Wales for granted, this time round.

 

[warpus]

Oh right, Russia, Vietnam, China, Cuba, France, Hungary, North Korea, Cambodia, Laos, Mozambique, Angola, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Grenada, and Nicaragua, have all had popular communist revolutions because they thought communism was a bad thing!

What? When did Hungary or France ever have "popular communist revolutions" ?????