Computerized brains

[El_Machinae]

Sure, there will be hardware degradation and obsolescence, as with any other device. Perhaps even option to hot-swap some of the hardware components, idk. Software development, updating going alongside and the marketing forces spinning whirlwinds around all that. Imagine, a window pops up in the top left corner of your... (field of view?), despite the adblocker, a sexy voice pitches you the all new underwear merch. Later that day, before going to sleep a deeply concerned voice emerges from the depths: please update your brainware to v1.0.666, two options pop up: “Yes”, “Remind me in 15 minutes”.

This creates an amazing set of market incentives.

People who upgrade will have an advantage. People who delay an upgrade will have a future advantage. And then the original people will create market demand for the ability to upgrade/replace what they already have. So, removable hardware will be a long-run goal. Being able to add (painlessly) to existing infrastructure will be a goal.

Gamers are used to this dilemma: do we buy the +1 sword now, making future grinding easier. Or do we grind longer, so that we can get the +3 sword. ... I don't have an analogy for swapping out the +1 sword for a +3 sword, lol. I betcha, with brain wiring, this won't be pleasant.

 

[Kyriakos]

This creates an amazing set of market incentives.

People who upgrade will have an advantage. People who delay an upgrade will have a future advantage. And then the original people will create market demand for the ability to upgrade/replace what they already have. So, removable hardware will be a long-run goal. Being able to add (painlessly) to existing infrastructure will be a goal.

Gamers are used to this dilemma: do we buy the +1 sword now, making future grinding easier. Or do we grind longer, so that we can get the +3 sword. ... I don't have an analogy for swapping out the +1 sword for a +3 sword, lol. I betcha, with brain wiring, this won't be pleasant.

If you are still using the Bates 1000 you might as well be selling your body for used heroin needles. You need the Bates 9000, El Machinae.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Second, would you be willing to put a computer chip in your brain?

2 million people in the USA have pacemakers and can't go near microwaves.

I'm not sure how well computer chips in the brain would work out.
Maybe if Microsoft handles the updates.

I was pro-biochip until that one part in the game of Deus Ex: Human Revolutions.

 

[amadeus]

2 million people in the USA have pacemakers and can't go near microwaves.

NHS says microwave OK, but stay 2 feet from your electric toothbrush.

I’m not sure how that works...

 

[Commodore]

Second, would you be willing to put a computer chip in your brain?

No but if possible I'd be willing to upload my consciousness to some digital platform to effectively achieve immortality.

 

[AmazonQueen]

NHS says microwave OK, but stay 2 feet from your electric toothbrush.

I’m not sure how that works...

Its actually 6 inches away, 2 feet is induction ranges.
Not that its going to be easy to be sure when brushing that you keep your toothbrush at least 6 inches from your chest

 

[amadeus]

Well I’m the last person to understand how electronics work.

Can’t stand electric toothbrushes though.

 

[El_Machinae]

The main risk of a microwave to a pacemaker would be the electrical current that's at the back of the machine. Even there, you're not getting much induction. It's definitely there, though. The microwaves themselves are captured by that grid that makes the door hard to see through.

The base charger of the electric toothbrush is trying to deliberately create electomagnetic waves that evoke current in wire (so that it can charge the battery), so it's a completely different beastie

This entire course was designed for intelligent students of the humanities, and here's the lecture on electromagnetism.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Musk has a long history of over-optimistic timeframes for technology and how close we are to having them available in any capacity, let along commercial. Still, it's nice some people are willing to pursue it.

I would be willing to gamble on an electronic brain over dying, especially when I'm old and starting to lose the viability of a non-electronic one. Continuity of consciousness is something we lose under anesthetic/other periods to some extent, and people continue despite substantial direct brain damage. I'd be interested in why functional electronics would be different from such example.

 

[Nylan]

2 million people in the USA have pacemakers and can't go near microwaves.

I'm not sure how well computer chips in the brain would work out.
Maybe if Microsoft handles the updates.

As a techie with a background in safety and complexity, you've just given me a ton of nightmare fuel. Please, no Microsoft updates.

 

[warpus]

This is the only way somebody like Musk can become immortal. You can't just make a copy of his consciousness and copy it into a machine (even if we could do such a thing), because then the original Musk still dies, even if you have a virtual version of him kicking around on some server farm.

The only way to achieve immortality is figure out a way for the human body to just not die. I don't know if this will be possible unless you either continue servicing the body with nanobots and keeping everything in check.. which seems messy.. or it's just some billionaire who keeps getting new organ implants.. which doesn't seem very fun either, and doesn't address the question of what to do with a deteriorating brain.

The solution is to connect the brain to a computer, figure out the protocols required to do that and then go from there. Eventually the tech would allow you to "upgrade" your brain by connecting it expanded digital storage and infrastructure. The next step after that is figuring out how to create digital storage like that will allow your brain to truly expand into that space, taking some of the consciousness with it, if that makes sense. Then as your neurons die, your consciousness slowly migrates over to the digital part of you, i.e. the upgrades. Then one day your body dies but you remain conscious inside the machine.

That's really the only way, unless we figure out some miracle cure that keeps the human body alive forever.. And it seems that this is even further away than a digital brain.. or so Musk probably hopes anyway.

I suspect this will take longer to solve than he anticipates, but he's of course a guy who lives by unrealistic timelines (some of which pan out, most do not)

I bet this is his main motivation. He not only wants to set up all these companies.. he wants to see them flourish. Dying would get in the way of that.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The only way to achieve immortality is figure out a way for the human body to just not die.

There's no reason to assume this to be true. Cells die all the time, and others replace them in function.

 

[El_Machinae]

Only some cells die, though. But yeah, Ship of Theseus when it comes to the organismal whole.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

^ Even in those cases you get some compensation from remaining living cells when those that don't usually regenerate die. We haven't observed any clear lines of personhood/consciousness at the level of components nearly that small.

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah, replacing neurons is a potential pathway. Hence my PD funding recommendation

 

[warpus]

There's no reason to assume this to be true. Cells die all the time, and others replace them in function.

But that's just an example of the human body not dying, right? If you could figure out how to get the human body to just continue repairing itself and staying healthy, that's immortality. But then that's just a case of the human body not dying, which is what I said initially.

Elon must think it's easier to figure out how to trasfer consciousness to a digital storage medium (over time) in a way that allows your consciousness to slowly migrate from your brain to the new digital reality. If they figure how to do this, then you don't need your body anymore. Heck, you could spend the rest of your life in a robot body. If you're a billionaire then that would be an option.

 

[Kyriakos]

But that's just an example of the human body not dying, right? If you could figure out how to get the human body to just continue repairing itself and staying healthy, that's immortality. But then that's just a case of the human body not dying, which is what I said initially.

Elon must think it's easier to figure out how to trasfer consciousness to a digital storage medium (over time) in a way that allows your consciousness to slowly migrate from your brain to the new digital reality. If they figure how to do this, then you don't need your body anymore. Heck, you could spend the rest of your life in a robot body. If you're a billionaire then that would be an option.

Some small animals are supposed to be biologically immortal - but they are really simple organisms, compared to humans. I think a type of small jellyfish is argued to be like that.
Also, afaik some relatively complex animals can regenerate lost limbs (but not a decapitated head ^_^ ).

 

[warpus]

Some small animals are supposed to be biologically immortal - but they are really simple organisms, compared to humans. I think a type of small jellyfish is argued to be like that.
Also, afaik some relatively complex animals can regenerate lost limbs (but not a decapitated head ^_^ ).

Yeah, I think all these animals don't have such complex central nervous systems like we do. I was reading about this a while ago so I could be wrong about how complex some of them are though. And I think there's a "catch" too, but I can't remember what it is. Some random guy educated me about this on reddit a while ago when I threw out that some jellyfish are immortal. He had sources so it was legit, but I can't remember what the catch was

edit: ahh okay, so most of these jellyfish do die from natural causes at some point or other. Their "revert back to an earlier form" process that makes them biologically immortal is triggered by certain events like starvation. The process has never been observed either it seems, so I guess the deal is that these creatures CAN be immortal, but in practice they all die eventually anyhow.

I guess if we had such powers as humans, we could indeed live forever. But basically what the jellyfish do is revert back to an earlier stage.. so it'd be like me turning back into a fetus again? Which given how our brains develop doesn't seem possible at all.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

But that's just an example of the human body not dying, right? If you could figure out how to get the human body to just continue repairing itself and staying healthy, that's immortality. But then that's just a case of the human body not dying, which is what I said initially.

Elon must think it's easier to figure out how to trasfer consciousness to a digital storage medium (over time) in a way that allows your consciousness to slowly migrate from your brain to the new digital reality. If they figure how to do this, then you don't need your body anymore. Heck, you could spend the rest of your life in a robot body. If you're a billionaire then that would be an option.

Yes, that is the implication. Robot body wouldn't necessarily be bad, but it also depends on assumptions so far unconfirmed. Perhaps we'll find out in our lifetimes, perhaps not.

 

[Ferocitus]

I'm not sure how well computer chips in the brain would work out.
Maybe if Microsoft handles the updates.

The short scifi series H+ showed what could happen with Microsoft-type updates in a transhumanist world.