The_Inforcer
Silent Assassin
Hey does anyone know if you can see these randomly entered seed name maps in the editor?
Conquests Beta Patch Now Available
- Thread starter dojoboy
- Start date
Tavis
Firaxian
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 146
Save Games - You can continue your save games. However, the problem is the save includes the corruptionandwaste for each city so when you load it thats where it continues the calculation. As your progress through turns the calculation will take affect.
It should be noted that Forbidden Palaces are not supposed to 'eliminate' corruption in the home city. They just 'reduce corruption' and act 'like a 2nd palace'. A city that has a Forbidden Palace will not be corrupt-free. However, combinations of good trade ways, city placement, government choice, local military forces, and other buildings can reduce your corruption to a minimal amount.
Also, this 'minimal corruption' is amplified when playing on higher difficulty levels.
Keep the feedback coming! We hurried to get this out and couldn't run through the lists making more fixes. You will see the focus more heavily on the issues you have been announcing.
Thanks,
Jesse
It should be noted that Forbidden Palaces are not supposed to 'eliminate' corruption in the home city. They just 'reduce corruption' and act 'like a 2nd palace'. A city that has a Forbidden Palace will not be corrupt-free. However, combinations of good trade ways, city placement, government choice, local military forces, and other buildings can reduce your corruption to a minimal amount.
Also, this 'minimal corruption' is amplified when playing on higher difficulty levels.
Keep the feedback coming! We hurried to get this out and couldn't run through the lists making more fixes. You will see the focus more heavily on the issues you have been announcing.
Thanks,
Jesse
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
Thanks Jesse! 
I have to admit confusion at the FP statement. Certainly prior to Conquests they acted like a second palace with regard to city rank and distance corruption. How are they different to the Capital where corruption is set at 5% (distance 0, rank 0)? Is this changed since Civ3 and PTW?
I have to admit confusion at the FP statement. Certainly prior to Conquests they acted like a second palace with regard to city rank and distance corruption. How are they different to the Capital where corruption is set at 5% (distance 0, rank 0)? Is this changed since Civ3 and PTW?
JazzToucan
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2003
- Messages
- 261
While I do agree that excessive complaining is in somewhat poor taste, you have to remember this is a business we're talking about and Atari/Firaxis isn't some community service or non-profit organization.
While I do not blame the individual programmers who are probably working as hard as they can, I do blame the company itself. They are in the business of providing quality entertainment software and they are compensated quite handsomely in exchange for their product. We're not talking about the United Way or Salvation Army, we're talking about a large multi-national corporation. In my opinion, it is rather inexcusable for the game to be released with the glaring bugs it had. That is not a slap at the employees but a slap at the company who should have hired more programmers if they were crunched for time.
Overall, I think the product was good, but I can understand why some people complain and, quite frankly, they have the right to complain as they have spent their money on a product that has flaws.
No offense to the programmers, but I don't view them as martyrs or going above and beyond the call of duty, or whatever you want to call it. They're doing their job, period. I'm an attorney, and I work anywhere from 60-70 hours a week... but guess what? That's my job. I'm paid quite well to perform it and if I slip up or make a mistake, the bosses don't pat me on the back for trying hard.
Just my two cents.
For all you sheeple who seem to think that Firaxis did us a "favor" by putting out this patch, I suggest you remove your head from your posterior, blink a few times, wake up and smell the dollar bills growing out behind the firaxis studios.
Maybe instead of allowing software companies to put out these half-finished products, consumers(you and me) should stop buying their crap so they spend a few extra bucks on quality before they misrepresent their product. I don't know about everyone else, but when I buy a chair for my house, I don't expect to have to wait until the chair company gets around to "doing me the favor" of making it work. Why should we expect any less from software companies?
Sure, if we keep buying their shoddy products, they'll just keep crunching the numbers and see just how much they can get away with. I mean, I'm truly happy that firaxis was able to get its half-finished game out before Christmas. It lifts my spirits to know they conned everyone into buying a product that didn't work, and that they didn't even have the integrity to fix competently and quickly.
Reality check people--the only favor they are doing is fixing the game just enough for themselves to keep selling the copies that we walmart sheeple flock blindly to buy.
Maybe instead of allowing software companies to put out these half-finished products, consumers(you and me) should stop buying their crap so they spend a few extra bucks on quality before they misrepresent their product. I don't know about everyone else, but when I buy a chair for my house, I don't expect to have to wait until the chair company gets around to "doing me the favor" of making it work. Why should we expect any less from software companies?
Sure, if we keep buying their shoddy products, they'll just keep crunching the numbers and see just how much they can get away with. I mean, I'm truly happy that firaxis was able to get its half-finished game out before Christmas. It lifts my spirits to know they conned everyone into buying a product that didn't work, and that they didn't even have the integrity to fix competently and quickly.
Reality check people--the only favor they are doing is fixing the game just enough for themselves to keep selling the copies that we walmart sheeple flock blindly to buy.
JazzToucan
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2003
- Messages
- 261
It's not a favor so much as it is a contractual obligation. Of course, since we all implicitly agree to waive all claims for breach upon opening the package there technically is no contract claim.
Or just go to the original capital of the civ you are playing and reset the governor. This causes all the cities to recalculate production/commerce/happiness.
So... Civ3, and PTW were the programs with the bug... hmmm. Looks like we have a new game to learn folks!
To those who complain about "shoddy" products:
I have been working in software development fo over 20 years. I know haow difficult it is to get a quality product out the door. I know what it's like to "burn the midnight oil" to make sure the product is finished on time. I know what it's like to finish my product, hand it over to testing, and have it returned with pages of bugs. I know what it's like to have the product pass my testing, my company's testing organ, and hit the stereets, only to be faced with pages of bug reports from unsatisfied customers.
Currently I work with critical system software, where a mistake can cost lives. We TRIPLE-check everything, from requirement statements, to design, to code, to integration, you name it. And still occasional bugs get through.
Software development is a very complex process, with a myriad of ways errors can creep in undetected. I am not going to complain when a game company releases a product that is *almost*, but not quite, perfect for what I want, and then releases free fixes for it. They are not charging a dime for the fixes. How can I complain that they are money-grubbing, lazy bums when they go out of their way to satisfy their consumer?
I have been working in software development fo over 20 years. I know haow difficult it is to get a quality product out the door. I know what it's like to "burn the midnight oil" to make sure the product is finished on time. I know what it's like to finish my product, hand it over to testing, and have it returned with pages of bugs. I know what it's like to have the product pass my testing, my company's testing organ, and hit the stereets, only to be faced with pages of bug reports from unsatisfied customers.
Currently I work with critical system software, where a mistake can cost lives. We TRIPLE-check everything, from requirement statements, to design, to code, to integration, you name it. And still occasional bugs get through.
Software development is a very complex process, with a myriad of ways errors can creep in undetected. I am not going to complain when a game company releases a product that is *almost*, but not quite, perfect for what I want, and then releases free fixes for it. They are not charging a dime for the fixes. How can I complain that they are money-grubbing, lazy bums when they go out of their way to satisfy their consumer?
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
So wait, is it true that the FP DOUBLES the effect of the Palace? This is huge...
I didn't find that in my test because I onlyhad one ring of cities around the palace...
I didn't find that in my test because I onlyhad one ring of cities around the palace...
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
So Padma, if you bought a new car and and when you drove it away you found you couldn't select top gear. Would you just drive home and carry on using it or would you turn round and drive straight back to the garage and demand that the problem be fixed or a replacement provided?
Civ is a product. It's on the shelf in your local games store. The same laws govern it's sale as the hypothetical car above. In what way is software entitled to be treated as a special case?
It's the "It's only a game" attitude that allows publishers and producers to continue to pass off unfinished goods as retail product.
How much longer are we, as consumers, supposed to put up with shoddy, not fit for purpose goods?
Ted
Civ is a product. It's on the shelf in your local games store. The same laws govern it's sale as the hypothetical car above. In what way is software entitled to be treated as a special case?
It's the "It's only a game" attitude that allows publishers and producers to continue to pass off unfinished goods as retail product.
How much longer are we, as consumers, supposed to put up with shoddy, not fit for purpose goods?
Ted
JazzToucan
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2003
- Messages
- 261
Again, I don't mean to be difficult, but the fix should be free. It would be an outrage if they charged to correct errors in the initial product.
As TJ mentions above, if a company selling a product that is defective or faulty, they will usually send whatever necessary item there is to fix it to the consumer free of charge.
And, again, I'm not blaming the employees/programmers as much as I am blaming the company itself.
As TJ mentions above, if a company selling a product that is defective or faulty, they will usually send whatever necessary item there is to fix it to the consumer free of charge.
And, again, I'm not blaming the employees/programmers as much as I am blaming the company itself.
Arrogant
Prince
I think we have to compare similar products. Software to software. Games to games. But still, I am afraid that the comparison isn't too favorable for Firaxis. The bugs were too many for this type of game. They were fixed inadequately and too late.
Can you imagine any other game going out WITHOUT multiplayer as the original Civ3 did ? Especially a strategy game ? And having to pay extra money for this feature ?
No, Firaxis capitalized big time on the success of the previous games, but is currently dancing on a very slippery slope. I don't think that the Civ community will tolerate many more mistakes.
Can you imagine any other game going out WITHOUT multiplayer as the original Civ3 did ? Especially a strategy game ? And having to pay extra money for this feature ?
No, Firaxis capitalized big time on the success of the previous games, but is currently dancing on a very slippery slope. I don't think that the Civ community will tolerate many more mistakes.
TedJackson:
First, your analogy is faulty because a faulty car is a safety hazard. lives are at stake. The same is certainly not true of this game.
Second, Conquests is playable out of the box, bugs and all. In fact, it's a helluva lot of fun.
Third, according to the developers, the FP is not bugged, it is changed, in this patch. So, in fact, the major bugs very well might be fixed.
And lastly, i don't see any point in antagonizing the only people who can help. I imagine they have a very long ignore list to sift through the venomous rage they get with every release and announcement.
To them i say, kudos. keep up the great work!
First, your analogy is faulty because a faulty car is a safety hazard. lives are at stake. The same is certainly not true of this game.
Second, Conquests is playable out of the box, bugs and all. In fact, it's a helluva lot of fun.
Third, according to the developers, the FP is not bugged, it is changed, in this patch. So, in fact, the major bugs very well might be fixed.
And lastly, i don't see any point in antagonizing the only people who can help. I imagine they have a very long ignore list to sift through the venomous rage they get with every release and announcement.
To them i say, kudos. keep up the great work!
etj4Eagle
ACME Salesman
Of course that gear box is always the same and installed in the same chasis with the same engine. I also take it that you have never seen the list of issues that are posted by car manufactures, ie bugs. There are often hundreds of them and only if they are something major does a recall get issued so that the problem gets fixed. Otherwise it is just your cost to fix the bug plus any additional damage that it might do to the car when that part fails.
You guys are a joke--are you so lost in your world of Civ that you've lost perspective of the real world?
It is not ethical business to release an unfinished product to the public and tell them they're getting the real deal. The Conquests that you all paid (sorry for my trivial irregular verb tense mistake, Mr. GED) for was a beta and should never have been released, just like this patch. Is not "beta" a term used for something in testing? Sure it is--so what the hell does the public want it for? It's not our job to do the testing; test it out yourselves, Firaxis: then fix it, then test it again, then fix it again, and then release it when it's of use to us.
Good things take time, and this Civ project certainly did not take time.
It is not ethical business to release an unfinished product to the public and tell them they're getting the real deal. The Conquests that you all paid (sorry for my trivial irregular verb tense mistake, Mr. GED) for was a beta and should never have been released, just like this patch. Is not "beta" a term used for something in testing? Sure it is--so what the hell does the public want it for? It's not our job to do the testing; test it out yourselves, Firaxis: then fix it, then test it again, then fix it again, and then release it when it's of use to us.
Good things take time, and this Civ project certainly did not take time.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
It's simple. Goods do not perform as advertised. There is no safety issue so don't try to cloud the waters.
Not for me, it isn't.
Who mentioned the FP bug?
So you're firmly in the apologists camp then? Well, I'm not.
We obviously have very different definitions of "great work".
Ted
kettyo
Seeker of Reality
So could you tell me please whether it counts where the FP is built or it's indifferent with the new rules.
Thank You!
Thank You!
Ringo
Chieftain
Conquests was a great expansion, even if a little buggy. Having played my way through most of the historical scenarios, I don't feel the least bit slighted or ripped off because it has a few bugs. The added features were worth the money spent. If you disagree, there's always ebay.
You, the player, have choice. The patch is beta. Don't want to be a beta tester? Don't use it. The bad in conquests outweighing the good? Go back to PTW. I'm happy with conquests, happier with a patch of some kind, even if beta.
You, the player, have choice. The patch is beta. Don't want to be a beta tester? Don't use it. The bad in conquests outweighing the good? Go back to PTW. I'm happy with conquests, happier with a patch of some kind, even if beta.
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
I didn't really mind the bug in the main game. Bugs happen, its a fact.
But when they release a patch who's sole (or almost sole) purpose was to fix said bug and they don't do it, then I get annoyed. Don't say "its just a beta patch" because they SAID it would work and it DIDN'T, plain and simple.
I want my PTW and Civ3 corruption back, please. Don't ruin FPs by making them not a second palace, that was their whole point...
But when they release a patch who's sole (or almost sole) purpose was to fix said bug and they don't do it, then I get annoyed. Don't say "its just a beta patch" because they SAID it would work and it DIDN'T, plain and simple.
I want my PTW and Civ3 corruption back, please. Don't ruin FPs by making them not a second palace, that was their whole point...
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