Conservative values?

Askthepizzaguy

Know the Dark Side
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Family values social and cultural Conservative:

  • Means being able to cheat on your wife and not be thrown out of office. Or, all things being equal, decrying Bill Clinton's behavior and then doing the same thing years later, or in Newt's case, at the same time.
  • Means being able to speak out against the evils of gayness while hiring gay prostitutes. Oooh scandalous!
  • Means being for a constitutional amendment to "protect marriage", while cheating on your spouse, soliciting gay sex, or getting several divorces, while Vegas drive-thru marriage "chapels" remain open and polygamous cults have their liberties protected, because that's religious freedom.
  • Means comparing homosexuality to bestiality, and that's why it shouldn't be allowed.
  • Means preaching about immorality while being addicted to painkillers.
  • Means speaking out about the evils of illegal immigration while hiring illegal workers yourself.
  • Means talking a good game about the Bible while not actually following through on any of it.
  • Means saying we've got to respect our commander-in-chief in a time of war (unless he's a Democrat)
  • Means murdering abortion doctors because murder is wrong. Or saying that while you don't condone that behavior, you don't condemn it either.
  • Means forming pro-Christian cop-murdering militias.... I'm sure Jesus would have approved.
  • Means having openly gay police officers, firefighters, congressmen, businessmen, and having anti-discrimination laws in all sectors... except of course, in the main institution which is meant to defend such protected freedoms, the military.
  • Means being so concerned about national security, you contract out port security to foreign countries. And of course, firing desperately-needed Arabic translators for being gay.
  • Means being able to tap anyone's phone whenever you want without a warrant, but flushing millions of government emails so no one knows what you were doing.

Freedom-loving, lower-taxes, free-market, fiscal Conservative, all-American capitalist:

  • Means endorsing and supporting a market where, when you gamble with other people's money, you win big and pay very few taxes on it. Unless you lose a lot of money, then "we're all in this together", so gimme a bailout with public money so I can do it again.
  • Means suggesting that mandated health care would lead to death panels and no health care for grandma, while under the current system, any insurer can just toss grandma out on her wrinkled old behind for no reason other than to protect profits, never mind how much she spent on that insurance over the years. Oh, let's not forget, denying coverage to children for pre-existing conditions when many are born with them. Too bad, so sad, let them die. But the government, who wants to cover those people, is the source of the DEATH PANELS.
  • Means turning a budget surplus into a massive federal deficit, then complaining that there is a deficit under (the very next) Democratic administration.
  • Means no-bid government contracts for stuff we don't even need, while ignoring better armor for the troops, while complaining about the budget.
  • Means being against raising the minimum wage while voting yourself a pay increase.
  • Means private jets and trips to Hawaii and spending money on lesbian nightclubs with RNC contributor dollars, in a recession.
  • Means endorsing a mandated arrangement for consumers of the private insurance industry, then turning around and rejecting the idea as socialist.
  • Means endorsing government bailouts of the automotive industry when they couldn't compete in the "free" market.
  • Means bailing out or buying up lots of corporations when they cannot meet their debts, but leaving homeowners and insurance holders and cardholders out to dry, then calling it socialist.
  • Means voting against government works projects in a recession with high unemployment, but accepting the money anyway and showing up at ribbon-cutting events with a big check, smiling, and taking credit for it, while actively sending letters requesting MORE federal dollars for those same projects, in private, and talking up all the jobs it would create, while saying it doesn't create jobs.
  • Means being for reducing or ending unemployment benefits in a recession with high unemployment.
  • Means using special privileges as a Senator to delay vital benefits for devastated families because of the impact on the federal debt, while accepting millions of dollars in pork spending for YOUR district, while not caring about the deficit then.
  • Means being for farm subsidies and military bases in your district, while saying the federal government can't be trusted with our money and never does anything right.
  • Means being for repealing or privatizing Medicare... but not being for repealing or privatizing federally funded transportation projects in your state, or privatizing the F.B.I or homeland security. Just privatize things that other people need, not things you want.

Conservative Republican politician:

  • Means being for your own health care plan before you were against it.
  • Means telling the opposition to be bi-partisan while making no concessions whatsoever.
  • Means being for the bailouts before you were against it.
  • Means being for the bridge to nowhere before you were against it.
  • Means asking people for money to repeal a bill that you will never repeal, then using that money to pay for private planes to give paid political speeches and sell books and autographs.
  • Means saying Obama lacks the experience to be president, then having Sarah Palin as your running mate.
  • Means campaigning on "Drill baby drill" and then being unsupportive of a Democratic president who expands offshore drilling.
  • Means being for Nuclear power, except when Obama does it.
  • Means giving Bush unprecedented unchecked executive power, while being for smaller government and not trusting Washington.
  • Means going to war in Afghanistan to get Bin Laden "dead or alive", then abandoning that war in favor of Iraq which had nothing to do with 9-11, and saying that capturing Bin laden wouldn't matter.
  • Means being for money to prop up foreign governments, and then saying unemployment benefits and medicare for Americans is wasteful spending.
  • Means being fiercely in support of the sanctity of the Constitution and the law, while proposing changing the Constitution in order to make sure gays can't get married, and doing illegal wiretaps and torturing prisoners, which is against domestic and international laws, respectively.


Religious Conservatism and fundamentalism:

  • Means polygamous marriages are okay, straight marriages are okay, divorce is okay, but homosexual unions are not. What if gays had a church? Would it be protected religious freedom then?
  • Means Scientologists who leave the Sea Org compound and complain about beatings and forced labor aren't protected, but the church's tax-exempt status and massive profits from selling fraudulent medical consultations, hundreds of books and related products, and practicing mental therapy without a license are protected.
  • Means reading a book which asks you to take care of the poor, the needy, and the sick, but then being against putting that into practice with tax dollars.
  • Means reading a book which preaches peace, non-violence, and tells you to turn the other cheek, while supporting an offensive war and polishing up your guns.
  • Means reading a book which says being gay is an offense to God, in the same chapter which says that eating certain animals is forbidden, and embracing one while ignoring the other.
  • Means "God said it, I believe it, that ends it" and science are directly incompatible, so stop trying to teach religion as an alternative scientific viewpoint.
  • Means teaching that pedophilia is wrong, but not lifting a finger to stop it in your own church, that's fine. The church can police itself, after all.
  • Means having the infallible word of God directly contradict itself.
  • Means having an infallible Pope, when supposedly only God is infallible.
  • Means having an infallible Pope which repeals policies of previous infallible Popes.
  • Means unnecessary, often-irreversible elective genital surgery which sometimes results in urinary fistulas, chordee, cysts, lymphedema, ulceration of the glans, necrosis of all or part of the penis, hypospadias, epispadias and impotence, forced upon an infant without any painkillers is okay!
  • Means being especially skeptical of any scientific field of study which directly contradicts your creation mythology, even though organized religion has amended itself in the past, but not against other scientific fields of study which don't directly contradict it.
  • Means being able to say with a straight face that religion helps turn sinners into morally upstanding people, when atheists and non-believers are not any more likely to commit crimes than religious people, or more likely to start offensive wars.
  • Means denying that you can be a good person without religion... not good enough for your particular peaceful afterlife, anyway.
  • Means when earthquakes and hurricanes hit, it is just God's punishment for "pagans, homosexuals, and fornicators". Even when it kills religious people. It's funny how sexuality and lack of belief makes you evil, but actual crimes aren't the main focus. Just once I'd like to see an anti-pedophilia campaign larger than the anti-homosexual campaign.

Prominent conservatives:

  • Rush Limbaugh, overweight, divorced several times and was addicted to painkillers, complains about other's personal flaws on a regular basis.
  • Pat Robertson, spewer of hatred towards non-religious people and homos.
  • Glenn Beck, shill for gold selling companies and ridiculous conspiracy theorist.
  • Mitt Romney, supporter of healthcare reform in his state that was more progressive than the healthcare bill that went through Congress which he was against.
  • Sarah Palin, who is still learning her big girl words, and sellin' books and telling us ordinary, regular, true Americans all about the fairness and the balance there, ya know? Too bad she didn't even know what the Bush doctrine was. Very qualified to be President. Couldn't go one full term as governor. Quit during ongoing investigations into her unethical activities.
  • John McCain, who sold out his moderate leanings and record to become a two-faced partisan hack who frequently tried to tie Obama to terrorists. Classy.
  • Newt Gingrich, the living, breathing, walking parody of conservative values.
  • Karl Rove.

What they all agree on:

  • Obama is a socialist ideologue who "did many of the things Hitler did", who laughably also needs "to tone down the rhetoric", "listen", and "be more bipartisan".





When crazy gets popular enough, it doesn't realize it is crazy anymore.
 
Is this anything like the "pro-choice" crowd that wants the federal government to control what school your children go to, how much salt you can eat, if you can smoke in public, what kind of car you can drive, etc., etc.?
 
Needed to be added on the list: Tea Partyers
 
Is this anything like the "pro-choice" crowd that wants the federal government to control what school your children go to, how much salt you can eat, if you can smoke in public, what kind of car you can drive, etc., etc.?

Of course, that's a strawman misrepresentation. So has no bearing on reality.
 
<insert obligatory post about liberal hypocrisy here>
 
Great post, mate. Note how no conservatives here actually refute any of these claims. Sure, the Democrats are horrible, naive, spineless weaklings, but at least they're not unbelievably hateful "patriots" who despise anyone who disagrees with them and tells people how to live while refusing to practice what they preach.
 
Moderator Action: There is actually something to discuss here; please try do so. Spam posts deleted.
 
Moderator Action: There is actually something to discuss here; please try do so. Spam posts deleted.

What's to discuss? That people are hypocrites?

Unity to Barack Obama is dividing the country as much as possible.
Obama vowed to make Washington more transparent, but has done nothing but erect walls that eliminate transparency.
Obama has taken lobbyists out of Washington by hiring lobbyists.
Dissolving racism to liberals means instituting policies that are racist.
Feminine power is staying with your husband that cheated on you in the white house.
Liberal's believe that 13 year old girls are responsible enough to get abortions without their parent's consent, but that nobody is responsible enough to own a gun.

What do we accomplish with this insipid crap? OMG! Politicians are hypocritical liars.

Next.
 
I am sure the OP hates hypocritical and extremist liberals just as much. He just hasn't gotten around to posting his long rant about them yet.
 
Great post, mate. Note how no conservatives here actually refute any of these claims. Sure, the Democrats are horrible, naive, spineless weaklings, but at least they're not unbelievably hateful "patriots" who despise anyone who disagrees with them and tells people how to live while refusing to practice what they preach.

Because there is no point in trying to argue with so many strawman arguments.
 
Liberal's believe that 13 year old girls are responsible enough to get abortions without their parent's consent, but that nobody is responsible enough to own a gun.

Point. Said thirteen year old girl can't hurt anyone else with her abortion. The thirty year old with no criminal record can still hurt someone with his gun. (I'm not saying that guns should be illegal, but this stance isn't as hypocriticle as you think).
 
Respectfully, what is there to discuss? Somebody posts a litany of things that some high profile people who espoused conservative beliefs perpetrated? Does that really, in any way, actually have any bearing upon how the millions of people who call themselves conservatives actually behave?

Well, at least the thread wasn't started by some random :):):):) of a kiwi who has some apparent ax to grind against America (and I think we know who I mean.)

Btw, I laugh at the 'charge' hurled against Romney. If anything, that's federalism, which is a fine conservative virtue. State does it, not the Feds.
 
Point. Said thirteen year old girl can't hurt anyone else with her abortion. The thirty year old with no criminal record can still hurt someone with his gun. (I'm not saying that guns should be illegal, but this stance isn't as hypocriticle as you think).

The thirteen year old certainly hurt herself. And in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. Not punished because of the things you can do. Thanks for driving my point him a little more.
 
Respectfully, what is there to discuss? Somebody posts a litany of things that some high profile people who espoused conservative beliefs perpetrated? Does that really, in any way, actually have any bearing upon how the millions of people who call themselves conservatives actually behave?

When you have an agenda, yes, yes it does. My mother is a conservative, but of course she must be some raving anti-gay, bloodthirsty lunatic just because some of her fellow cons are. She also must be EXTREMELY religious, despite the fact she never taught us anything about the Bible!

So, which member of the conservative clique here will fire back with their list of bad things liberals have done, just to demean all liberals? If only to prove the point of how generalizations suck when you're on the receiving end.

---

On the OP:

Wouldn't it make more sense to critique conservatism as an ideology, and not so much those who practice it(at least in theory)?

You can't really argue against ideology x simply by looking at some of those who have adopted it(especially politicians; politicians =/= their average voter), but you can argue against it by looking at the principles themselves. Screw Pat Robertson, Osama Bin Laden and all other religious crazies; you can argue against fundamentalists by attacking their wetdream violations of the separation of Church and State.

You can argue against social conservatism merely by saying it often bans things with no real basis in hard logic, but on moral values. Similarly, you can argue against social liberalism by saying it often allows things with no real basis in logic, but based on moral values. And bans some stuff itself, as well.

Bad apples don't spoil the batch and whatnot.. though of course, the bad apples should be removed. I sincerely doubt these politicians represent all of conservatives. And I should know: I have to live with a family of them all.
 
I can't stand abortion unless it's to save the mother's life. I believe people ought to have the right/privelege/whatever you call it to own firearms, but draw the line at civilianized assault rifles and think armed protests should be outlawed.

As for the discussion value of this thread, I think it has some merit. A few certain posters here will defend anything and everything the GOP does, or at least, will not criticize its actions under any circumstances, and the same can be said about some posters and the Dems. In this thread, we might at least get to see why. Criticisms of Dems/ them evul librulz are useful as well. Nobody should blindly defend any party/political ideology, though.
 
Respectfully, what is there to discuss? Somebody posts a litany of things that some high profile people who espoused conservative beliefs perpetrated? Does that really, in any way, actually have any bearing upon how the millions of people who call themselves conservatives actually behave?

Well, at least the thread wasn't started by some random :):):):) of a kiwi who has some apparent ax to grind against America (and I think we know who I mean.)

Btw, I laugh at the 'charge' hurled against Romney. If anything, that's federalism, which is a fine conservative virtue. State does it, not the Feds.

I agree. Apparently someone desires to engage in a simple, but large ad hom and thats it. Why not recognize that there are indeed prominent republicans that do indeed live those values and are simply not hypocrites?

Taking a small handfull of examples and applying it broad brush is never a wise thing to do. And that is simply what the OP does. Not to mention that its chock full of outright falsehoods.

Personally I simply view it as one big ad hom that blatently misrepresents conservatives as a whole.
 
religious conservatism and fundamentalism:


[1]means polygamous marriages are okay, straight marriages are okay, divorce is okay, but homosexual unions are not. What if gays had a church? Would it be protected religious freedom then?
[2]means scientologists who leave the sea org compound and complain about beatings and forced labor aren't protected, but the church's tax-exempt status and massive profits from selling fraudulent medical consultations, hundreds of books and related products, and practicing mental therapy without a license are protected.
[3]means reading a book which asks you to take care of the poor, the needy, and the sick, but then being against putting that into practice with tax dollars.
[4]means reading a book which preaches peace, non-violence, and tells you to turn the other cheek, while supporting an offensive war and polishing up your guns.
[5]means reading a book which says being gay is an offense to god, in the same chapter which says that eating certain animals is forbidden, and embracing one while ignoring the other.
[6]means "god said it, i believe it, that ends it" and science are directly incompatible, so stop trying to teach religion as an alternative scientific viewpoint.
[7]means teaching that pedophilia is wrong, but not lifting a finger to stop it in your own church, that's fine. The church can police itself, after all.
[8]means having the infallible word of god directly contradict itself.
[9]means having an infallible pope, when supposedly only god is infallible.
[10]means having an infallible pope which repeals policies of previous infallible popes.
[11]means unnecessary, often-irreversible elective genital surgery which sometimes results in urinary fistulas, chordee, cysts, lymphedema, ulceration of the glans, necrosis of all or part of the penis, hypospadias, epispadias and impotence, forced upon an infant without any painkillers is okay!
[12]means being especially skeptical of any scientific field of study which directly contradicts your creation mythology, even though organized religion has amended itself in the past, but not against other scientific fields of study which don't directly contradict it.
[13]means being able to say with a straight face that religion helps turn sinners into morally upstanding people, when atheists and non-believers are not any more likely to commit crimes than religious people, or more likely to start offensive wars.
[14]means denying that you can be a good person without religion... Not good enough for your particular peaceful afterlife, anyway.
[15]means when earthquakes and hurricanes hit, it is just god's punishment for "pagans, homosexuals, and fornicators". Even when it kills religious people. It's funny how sexuality and lack of belief makes you evil, but actual crimes aren't the main focus. Just once i'd like to see an anti-pedophilia campaign larger than the anti-homosexual campaign.
[/list]

Spoiler :
prominent conservatives:

  • rush limbaugh, overweight, divorced several times and was addicted to painkillers, complains about other's personal flaws on a regular basis.
  • pat robertson, spewer of hatred towards non-religious people and homos.
  • glenn beck, shill for gold selling companies and ridiculous conspiracy theorist.
  • mitt romney, supporter of healthcare reform in his state that was more progressive than the healthcare bill that went through congress which he was against.
  • sarah palin, who is still learning her big girl words, and sellin' books and telling us ordinary, regular, true americans all about the fairness and the balance there, ya know? Too bad she didn't even know what the bush doctrine was. Very qualified to be president. Couldn't go one full term as governor. Quit during ongoing investigations into her unethical activities.
  • john mccain, who sold out his moderate leanings and record to become a two-faced partisan hack who frequently tried to tie obama to terrorists. Classy.
  • newt gingrich, the living, breathing, walking parody of conservative values.
  • karl rove.

what they all agree on:

  • obama is a socialist ideologue who "did many of the things hitler did", who laughably also needs "to tone down the rhetoric", "listen", and "be more bipartisan".





when crazy gets popular enough, it doesn't realize it is crazy anymore.

1) Polygamy=bad, straight marriage=fine, divorce=bad, Homosexuals getting legal benefits of marriage through civil unions=not immoral
2) Scientology=fraud, we should legally go after them for those crimes
3)
Spoiler Matthew 25:34-46 :
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

4) Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
5) Kosher laws ended
6) Those people are lunatics
7) The church is actually working hard to cleanse itself
8) Huh? if it is NT vs. OT, NT always wins
9)
Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. It is also taught that the Holy Spirit works in the body of the Church, as sensus fidelium, to ensure that dogmatic teachings proclaimed to be infallible will be received by all Catholics. This dogma, however, does not state either that the Pope cannot sin in his own personal life or that he is necessarily free of error, even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the specific contexts in which the dogma applies.
stop misrepresenting it!
10) see above
11) circumcision is against the Church's teachings
12) huh?
13) IIRC I have never claimed that
14) never said that either
15) Earthquakes and tornados have a habit of happening in the same area over and over again

PS Limbaugh had viagra when not married
 
Where did you find such a nifty list? Most probably conservativesareevile.com :rolleyes:

Seriously some of the things you linked to in the Religious section are so stupid and have been answered many times, that you are not serious about trying see what Conservatism, but are living in your dream world.
 
Respectfully, what is there to discuss? Somebody posts a litany of things that some high profile people who espoused conservative beliefs perpetrated? Does that really, in any way, actually have any bearing upon how the millions of people who call themselves conservatives actually behave?

Well, at least the thread wasn't started by some random * of a kiwi who has some apparent ax to grind against America (and I think we know who I mean.)

Btw, I laugh at the 'charge' hurled against Romney. If anything, that's federalism, which is a fine conservative virtue. State does it, not the Feds.

But the point is, that while many perfectly decent conservatives may live perfectly decent lives, they keep electing scum. :) And how many times can people elect scum before you hold them responsible for doing so?

If people are voting for scum year after year, clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with their values.
 
But the point is, that while many perfectly decent conservatives may live perfectly decent lives, they keep electing scum. :) And how many times can people elect scum before you hold them responsible for doing so?

They dont elect 'scum' anymore than the democrats do. Please. Cease the ad homs.

If people are voting for scum year after year, clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with their values.

How can you make such accusations and turn an utterly blind eye when the dems do the same exact things?
 
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