Conservatives still not getting it

[AlpsStranger]

I've been following conservative forums and blogs feverishly since the election.

They still don't get it. They don't understand what's killing them. They won't even admit the epistemic closure exists.

I understand what happened. "Leftists" ( meaning people less conservative than the observer ) infiltrated the media. Every TV show, every news report, everything outside of the closure seems to be a constant attack on their values.So they've scurried into a labyrinthine underworld of talk radio, conservative blogs, and conservative forums. Home schools. Mega-Churches. Creationist theme parks. Places where predicting God's imminent wrath against America and barely-coherent ranting paired with Bible quotes is normal. They think that we'll all just 'get it' and become pro-life, anti-SSM creationists if we just "see the truth."

My schadenfreude is stifled by just how tragic it all seems. People think the Republicans didn't win because they "let the MSM bully Todd Akin." Ann Coulter is being branded a sellout now because of this bit:

The overwhelming majority of people -- including me -- are going to say the law shouldn't force someone who has been raped to carry the child. On the other hand, abortion should be illegal in most other cases.

Is that so hard for Republicans to say?

Purist conservatives are like idiot hipsters who can't like a band that's popular. They believe that a group with any kind of a following can't be a good band, just as show-off social conservatives consider it a mark of integrity that their candidates -- Akin, Mourdock, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell -- take wildly unpopular positions and lose elections.

It was the same thing with purist libertarian Barry Goldwater, who -- as you will read in my book, "Mugged: Racial Demagoguery From the Seventies to Obama" -- nearly destroyed the Republican Party with his pointless pursuit of libertarian perfection in his vote against the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

When Ann Coulter is the voice of reason who is being purged for impurity you know something is up. I know the usual suspects are about to come in and mock my "triumphalism," but don't minimize what's going on here. With gay marriage fresh off of winning its first real, firm victories they decide that it must be time to become more shrill, more apocalyptic, more starkly theocratic.

I'm skeptical that the people who are smart enough to figure out their next move will have the power to fix it. I think we're going to see an easy Democrat win in 2016 as the ballot will be Democrat vs Republican vs Libertarian vs <Theocratic third party yet to be named>.

When your party comes across as an airhorn directly to the eardrum it doesn't take much to defeat you.

 

[Quackers]

Thread title:

Conservatives still not getting it

In the OP:

They think that we'll(democrats) all just 'get it' and become pro-life, anti-SSM creationists if we just "see the truth."

nom

 

[Borachio]

Hmm. Trouble is, though, any party in power is only as good as its opposition.

The US needs a sound alternative view point to the Democrats, otherwise there's a danger of the Democrats abusing their position of dominance.

Still, this is a long term view. There's not likely to be a problem in the immediate future.

 

[AlpsStranger]

If Republicans focus on real freedom ( not the Jesus-only kind ) and their economic stances the Democrats are screwed. The SoCons aren't going to vote, perhaps, but I really don't think the country wants as much welfare as the Democrats do. We get by with it because of freaks like Akin and Mourdock.

 

[holy king]

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11...tm_campaign=is-this-child-dead-enough-for-you

Is This Child Dead Enough for You?

 

[Quackers]

"Real" freedom - thats quite a loaded term. Isn't it the Democrats who hate you if your not a black, lesbian, weed smoking, disabled transsexual?
The very same people who seriously say that a candidate is "too white"? Who are the real racists here?

 

[downtown]

How many threads do you need on this?

This circle-jerk of self congratulations and appraisals of imminent doom is just as ridiculous now as your doomsday proclamations of impending theocracy were a month before the election. Turn the amplifier down from 11 dude.

Republicans control more Governorships now than they ever had in their history, and thanks to distributing lines, will likely control the House for the next 5 years, at least. They aren't going to vanish anytime soon.

The abortion business hurt Republicans in 2 senate seats, but it didn't kill the party. Mitt Romney won married women by 7 points.

 

[AlpsStranger]

This is certainly the kind of talk you get from a political movement with a bright future.

"Real" freedom - thats quite a loaded term. Isn't it the Democrats who hate you if your not a black, lesbian, weed smoking, disabled transsexual?
The very same people who seriously say that a candidate is "too white"? Who are the real racists here?

I don't think the freedom to live by someone else's religion is real freedom. Sue me.

How many threads do you need on this?

Yeah, sorry. I guess I didn't need to make another one.

This circle-jerk of self congratulations and appraisals of imminent doom is just as ridiculous now as your doomsday proclamations of impending theocracy were a month before the election. Turn the amplifier down from 11 dude.

Aww, can't I have any fun

Republicans control more Governorships now than they ever had in their history, and thanks to distributing lines, will likely control the House for the next 5 years, at least. They aren't going to vanish anytime soon.

The abortion business hurt Republicans in 2 senate seats, but it didn't kill the party. Mitt Romney won married women by 7 points.

He won married women by seven points and still lost handily, you mean.

 

[Quackers]

This is certainly the kind of talk you get from a political movement with a bright future.

Oh wow, an unverifiable (could be a troll) individual on the idiotweb - sure that represents the entire movement.

I don't think the freedom to live by someone else's religion is real freedom. Sue me.

Sorry when did the Republicans propose amending the constituition to make the USA a one-religion theocratic state? Are mentions of God in public places really that bad?

NewsFlash Mr Alps: The republicans got thrashed in the electoral votes but if you look at the popular vote it wasn't a crushing victory of say Reagan-Mondale or Goldwater-Johnson. Perspective please.

 

[bhsup]

For others who were not familiar with the phrase epistemic closure as it relates to politics:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemic_closure :

The term "epistemic closure" has been used in US political debate to refer to the claim that the belief systems of political conservatives are closed systems of deduction, which cannot be affected by empirical evidence. This use of the term originated with blogger and commentator Julian Sanchez.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Sanchez_(writer) :

Sanchez has a weblog at juliansanchez.com. He has also blogged for Reason and The Economist. In the winter of 2005&#8211;06, Andrew Sullivan asked Sanchez and Ross Douthat to guest blog on his widely read weblog, The Daily Dish. Sanchez's work has been cited in blogs such as The Volokh Conspiracy, Marginal Revolution, and Instapundit. In a 2010 blog post he adapted the philosophical term epistemic closure to describe the effect that the rise of conservative media has had on right-of-center political discourse in the United States. His analysis sparked a spirited debate among conservative pundits that was eventually covered by the New York Times.

Thank you, Alps, I've learned my word/phrase for the day from CFC OT. That said, I cannot figure out what the hell MSM is from your post. Multi-Sex Marriage? A quick internet search comes up with a bunch of nutritional links.

Here's my problem with your post. You blow with the wind and are all over the place. YOU were the shrill one not long ago, convinced that Obama was gonna get his arse handed to him, forcing you to endure the indignity of living under a Romney administration. Now that he lost, you admit yourself taking great pleasure in the discomfort of others, have made multiple threads about it, and yet now expect any of us to read your post and think it's coming from the perspective of someone who is just sad about what's happening in the GOP? Sorry, I am not buying it.

You, and the rest of the country's leftist taking so much glee in your victory have shown me one thing. You cannot be reasoned with, period. I've been a traitor to my principles because I've usually voted for who I thought was the best person individually for a particular race, even if I didn't always agree with their views. This led me in this election, and in elections past, to vote for several Democrats for the position of US Senate, Governor, and so forth. Well no more, and I thank you and others like you for opening my eyes. It is you on the left who have made it abundantly clear that dialogue and compromise are simply no longer possible in America, and that saddens me.

That said, yes, the GOP does need to change. On abortion? No, certainly not. Innocent life should never be a bargaining chip. On gay rights, yes. On immigration, yes, open those floodgates (and I've said this repeatedly and consistently), but still we need to find those who entered illegally and get them out. Breaking the law should not be rewarded.

Thank you, Alps, for reinvigorating the spirit of an old conservative warrior who's been slipping of late.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Sorry when did the Republicans propose amending the constituition to make the USA a one-religion theocratic state? Are mentions of God in public places really that bad?

There are active theocrats in this country. If you don't consider Michele Bachmann a theocrat then you aren't being honest.

 

[Quackers]

Thank you, Alps, for reinvigorating the spirit of an old conservative warrior who's been slipping of late.

Look what you do Alps with your self-righteous attitude.

 

[AlpsStranger]

You give me far too much credit VRWCAgent. I'm just a crank poster who takes things too far and likes riling people up.

Still, don't let me discourage you from doing whatever you think is right. It's what we all have to do.

EDIT: Bonus: MSM is mainstream media. It's usually conservative jargon and is an acronym I picked up lurking on conservative boards and blogs.

 

[Tee Kay]

Aww, can't I have any fun

Not while you're being a blatant hypocrite lambasting conservatives for what you yourself are guilty of, ie, partisan hackery.

 

[bhsup]

Holy crap, Alps. You're original un-edited reply to me was much more thoughtful and deserving of respect. Don't undercut yourself like that! Wish I had quoted it now for posterity.

EDIT: Haha, we both had the same thing in mind. I caught it in my back button too and image captured it Behold, turnip green!

Spoiler :

 

[AlpsStranger]

Holy crap, Alps. You're original un-edited reply to me was much more thoughtful and deserving of respect. Don't undercut yourself like that! Wish I had quoted it now for posterity.

Sorry, I had an attack of self-doubt. I wish I could recover it.

EDIT: Hey, I found it with my back button!

Spoiler :

Thank you, Alps, I've learned my word/phrase for the day from CFC OT. That said, I cannot figure out what the hell MSM is from your post. Multi-Sex Marriage? A quick internet search comes up with a bunch of nutritional links.

Mainstream media. Sorry, I see the abbreviation MSM a lot on conservative blogs and such.

Here's my problem with your post. You blow with the wind and are all over the place. YOU were the shrill one not long ago, convinced that Obama was gonna get his arse handed to him, forcing you to endure the indignity of living under a Romney administration. Now that he lost, you admit yourself taking great pleasure in the discomfort of others, have made multiple threads about it, and yet now expect any of us to read your post and think it's coming from the perspective of someone who is just sad about what's happening in the GOP? Sorry, I am not buying it.

I didn't start out that way. You don't have to believe me I suppose. I probably wouldn't if I were you, for what it's worth.

You, and the rest of the country's leftist taking so much glee in your victory have shown me one thing. You cannot be reasoned with, period. I've been a traitor to my principles because I've usually voted for who I thought was the best person individually for a particular race, even if I didn't always agree with their views. This led me in this election, and in elections past, to vote for several Democrats for the position of US Senate, Governor, and so forth. Well no more, and I thank you and others like you for opening my eyes. It is you on the left who have made it abundantly clear that dialogue and compromise are simply no longer possible in America, and that saddens me.

I wish I could disagree, but you've got two cultures that I'm not even sure overlap anymore. I don't bear you any personal ill feelings and I understand what you're saying.

That said, yes, the GOP does need to change. On abortion? No, certainly not. Innocent life should never be a bargaining chip. On gay rights, yes. On immigration, yes, open those floodgates (and I've said this repeatedly and consistently), but still we need to find those who entered illegally and get them out. Breaking the law should not be rewarded.

Your party is far more likely to bend on abortion than gay rights from what I've seen.

Thank you, Alps, for reinvigorating the spirit of an old conservative warrior who's been slipping of late.

Not my intention, but I can understand what you mean. There's a real culture war raging around us and I don't begrudge you a stake in it.

Anyhow, I'm dropping it now. I would be royally pissed if the election had gone the other way and I should stop contributing the the ill will generated by the election.

 

[Tee Kay]

Behold, turnip green!

I'm now half-tempted to change to turnip green.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You, and the rest of the country's leftist taking so much glee in your victory have shown me one thing.

Do keep in mind that much of the glee you are encountering is due to relief at having won a very tight, contentious race where many issues of grave importance to the left were on the line. The glee will die down as the spectre of devided government will prevent the left from pushing the ball as far to the left as we'd like. This will happen very soon, I predict.

Also, in the alternate universe where Romney carried the day, the conservatives are going apes*** just like the liberals in the here and now. But it is mostly temporary.

There are two other things that I would like to make note of:

While the left has certainly vilified the right to the MAX, the right has done the same thing in reverse. Look at that Floridian pasture's leaflet for a good solid example, or just turn on Fox news or that crazy right-wing polling website that called us all traitors or whatever. The fact that the left is gloating today is like highly compressed steam exploding from a failing valve at the fracture points. The anger on the right before and after the election and the continuing villification of us (America is dead by Suicide, etc) is only adding pressure to that steam as it explodes outward.

Again, the left has done it's fair share of villification. But we won, feel vindicated by this and haven't seen a lot of contrition from conservatives (except you, you're statements to the effect of Obama is the president, let's rally around him, are a beautiful exception to the hackery we see posted here and in the media everyday). So we feel like we have won the right to gloat over our victories. But as I noted, this will pass quickly.

Lastly, I would add that it would be far more productive for all conservatives now to figure out what changes they should make to their party going forward instead of spending effort lambasting liberals and mourning the death of America. This isn't a comment on your comments specifically, more of a general statement to any conservative who will read this post.

I have said that I don't want nor expect the Republican party to just roll over and become liberal. But the extreme stances they have taken and the way they put partisan obstructionism over solving major issues have hurt them greatly. If they continue to go down the path of obstructing every Obama initiative, they are going to lose out in the long run as they lose the ability to actually influence any of those initiatives. If they continue down this same path, they will lose more elections and cede more power to the left.

I for one, do not want a country of one party rule. I want a loyal opposition to keep things in check and to help craft a new path forward for the country.

 

[Crezth]

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11...tm_campaign=is-this-child-dead-enough-for-you

Communists. War is civilization: without it, we are as apes in the mud.

 

[JollyRoger]

Mitt Romney won married women by 7 points.

And he won married men by a good deal more. You would think they would be for gay marriage so as to increase the base of this category.