Convert to Jesus or Die!

[Ansar]

Im a Christian who wants to take over the world!

 

[Swedishguy]

...their ignorance.

Thank you for your kind attitude against Atheists. Do you honestly think that all Atheists doesn't know a nickle about the bible? YOU are ignorant! Evolutionism, for example. It's being bagatellized by christians by some 'divine steps' that are planned by 'God'. Incidentially, do you 'believe' in Evolution.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Just because some Christians are ignorant doesn't mean no atheists are. I am not talking about "all atheists", just some on CFC. The fact is, as is being shown, a lot of atheists do not understand a lot of Christians. At least, I have seen a few atheists make broad statements about "all Christians" that do not apply to most Christians. I am not talking about the Bible, either, although I know that many atheists know about certain aspects of it.

As for evolution, what has that to do with it? And for an answer, just look at my posts in Perf's various KO threads to see what I think of evolution.

 

[nc-1701]

See, there you go displaying your ignorance. The fact is, you are criticizing a strawman. Okay, not quite, there are Christians such as you describe, but you appear to know little about what motivates religious people in general, and Christians in particular.

The fact is, I am religious because I really, genuinely, sincerely believe it to be true, not because I cannot handle the psychological consequences of being wrong. I am as comfortable with the prospect of nonexistence after death as any atheist, for example; I believe in an afterlife not because I have to but because I believe it to be the truth.

Well I'm sorry, but every christian I have ever known has just been in it as part of a mad dash for the chance of going to heaven. I have on numerous occasions been told if I don't convert I'll go to hell. The idea that they can scare me into joining them in this sickening orgy of prayer that they think will fastrack them into heaven. Many also refuse empirical thought and science on the grounds of it being "immoral"

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well I'm sorry, but every christian I have ever known has just been in it as part of a mad dash for the chance of going to heaven. I have on numerous occasions been told if I don't convert I'll go to hell. The idea that they can scare me into joining them in this sickening orgy of prayer that they think will fastrack them into heaven. Many also refuse empirical thought and science on the grounds of it being "immoral"

Let's all take a nice, deep breath, here.

Okay, you know me, in a sense. I am a Christian. (Well, some disagree, but the fact is I am.) I do not view my faith as a mad dash to get into heaven. I do not think all non-Christians are going to hell. Prayer, at least in my faith, is not a sickening orgy. Emperical thought and science are not immoral. I know you think that my faith is false, or a human construct, or whatever; that is fine by me. I know well that many disagree with my beliefs, and that is not a bad thing. It is okay to be an atheist if you really cannot accept the idea of God. But that doesn't mean that you have to dislike Christianity in all its forms.

 

[Swedishguy]

Well I'm sorry, but every christian I have ever known has just been in it as part of a mad dash for the chance of going to heaven. I have on numerous occasions been told if I don't convert I'll go to hell. The idea that they can scare me into joining them in this sickening orgy of prayer that they think will fastrack them into heaven. Many also refuse empirical thought and science on the grounds of it being "immoral"

Many people use fear as a protest against genetic food, calling it 'frankenfood' and actually claims that it makes the body grow extra limbs without any scientific support at all. If all genetically improved plants suddenly becomes 'normal' plants, the world can only support 4 billion people! What happens to the other 2 billions?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

To be fair, that is not an entirely religious argument; I know that there are plenty of secular protests against it as well.

(And since all food grown on a farm has been genetically modified by humans, it is a silly argument.)

 

[Katheryn]

Actually, many atheists have been convinced of the existence of God because of the amazing beauty of creation. Frances Collins, for one.

He was the lead scientist in the Genome Project.

The believer
Francis Collins -- head of the Human Genome Project -- discusses his conversion to evangelical Christianity, why scientists do not need to be atheists, and what C.S. Lewis has to do with it.

By Steve Paulson

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As the longtime head of the Human Genome Project, Francis Collins is one of America's most visible scientists. He holds impeccable scientific credentials -- a medical degree as well as a Ph.D. in physics -- and has established a distinguished track record as a gene hunter. He's also an evangelical Christian, someone who has no qualms about professing his belief in miracles or seeing God's hand behind all of creation.

The cover of his new book illustrates this unusual mixture: The book's title, "The Language of God," is superimposed on a drawing of the double helix. "The God of the Bible is also the God of the genome," he writes. "He can be worshiped in the cathedral or in the laboratory."

Collins hopes to stake out the middle ground between Darwinian atheists and religious fundamentalists. "Both of these extremes don't stand up to logic, and yet they have occupied the stage," he told me. "We cannot let either side win."

Unlike so many of those players most invested in this culture war, Collins sees no inherent conflict between science and religion. Yet his book is likely to alienate plenty of people on both sides of the debate. His frequent references to God's almighty power might be difficult for secular readers to swallow. And his scathing critique of both Young Earth creationism and intelligent design probably won't attract the hordes of readers...

http://www.salon.com/books/int/2006/08/07/collins/index_np.html

 

[El_Machinae]

Let's all take a nice, deep breath, here.

Okay, you know me, in a sense. I am a Christian.

Y'know, your faith is the first Christian faith that doesn't claim that non-Christians are destined to Hell (after they die), though.

You will agree that the "Jack Chick" Christianity seems mainly to be about fear-mongering.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

That's for sure.

And I do know that lots of denominations now recognize the idea of salvation for non-Christians. I did a paper on it in college once; it actually started with the Spanish conquests in the New World, but we have always been more specific, and more open, about it.

And yes, Jack Chick is about nothing other than fear. This is a disgrace; even his depictions of Christ - who should for a Christian be the symbol of love and hope - seem to draw on fear.

 

[nc-1701]

Let's all take a nice, deep breath, here.

Okay, you know me, in a sense. I am a Christian. (Well, some disagree, but the fact is I am.) I do not view my faith as a mad dash to get into heaven. I do not think all non-Christians are going to hell. Prayer, at least in my faith, is not a sickening orgy. Emperical thought and science are not immoral. I know you think that my faith is false, or a human construct, or whatever; that is fine by me. I know well that many disagree with my beliefs, and that is not a bad thing. It is okay to be an atheist if you really cannot accept the idea of God. But that doesn't mean that you have to dislike Christianity in all its forms.

Ok deep breath...

Well I guess I know why most christians think Mormons are heretics... You're to damn reasinable!

Anyway my view of christianity is of course affected by what christians I have met/seen. I suppose this has probably been heavily biased by the fact I have lived smack dab in the middle of the bible-belt my whole life...

The few times I have been to a church I have seen either Catholic) 'God loves us, God loves us, God loves, because he is all loving so we worship his great power, God loves us, God loves us, God loves us.' Talk about being self centered elitists
Evangelical) 'Repent! Repent! Repent! Convert now and worship his holiness forever or you will be smited!! Come be saved by the great lord Jesus Christ or ye' shall forever burn in hell! Repent!! For you are nothing without the lord who gives you everything!! Come be saved tonight or face eternal damnation!'

Talk about hell fearing...

 

[puglover]

Y'know, your faith is the first Christian faith that doesn't claim that non-Christians are destined to Hell (after they die), though.

Here I don't exactly agree with Eran (nothing personal ) But then again, my idea of Hell is a lot different from Jack Chick's Hell. The Bible is very vague on the subject, so there's a lot of room for interpretation. I do think, though, that the Bible says those who refuse to submit to Christ's authority will be cast aside to Hell, whatever it looks like.

Ok deep breath...

Well I guess I know why most christians think Mormons are heretics... You're to damn reasinable!

Anyway my view of christianity is of course affected by what christians I have met/seen. I suppose this has probably been heavily biased by the fact I have lived smack dab in the middle of the bible-belt my whole life...

The few times I have been to a church I have seen either Catholic) 'God loves us, God loves us, God loves, because he is all loving so we worship his great power, God loves us, God loves us, God loves us.' Talk about being self centered elitists
Evangelical) 'Repent! Repent! Repent! Convert now and worship his holiness forever or you will be smited!! Come be saved by the great lord Jesus Christ or ye' shall forever burn in hell! Repent!! For you are nothing without the lord who gives you everything!! Come be saved tonight or face eternal damnation!'

Talk about hell fearing...

I can see where you're coming from, but Christianity (ideally) is nothing like selfish praise or Hell-mongering. Christianity's true meaning lies in self-sacrifice. Jesus died for us, we are to dedicate our lives in service of Him, and service of others. There is no room for any selfish pride or fear-mongering under Christ's teachings.

Although, I think you may be misunderstanding the worship in the first example you gave. What's wrong with someone being thankful that God loves them? Is a child who says he loves his daddy a self-centered elitist too?

 

[El_Machinae]

Actually, many atheists have been convinced of the existence of God because of the amazing beauty of creation. Frances Collins, for one.

He was the lead scientist in the Genome Project.

This looks a bit like name-dropping.
Anyway, just because it wasn't clear when I read it, Collins converted before he helped crack the genome project. His readings of CS Lewis were his main conversion reason.

And we all know CS Lewis is the bomb, his writings are really excellent.

 

[nc-1701]

Here I don't exactly agree with Eran (nothing personal ) But then again, my idea of Hell is a lot different from Jack Chick's Hell. The Bible is very vague on the subject, so there's a lot of room for interpretation. I do think, though, that the Bible says those who refuse to submit to Christ's authority will be cast aside to Hell, whatever it looks like.

Here is my other problem with christians they hand over there soul to another being, or so they belive, how can I respect someone who will sell away there existence in exchange for a reward? Whatever happend to "Give me liberty or give me death!"

 

[El_Machinae]

Here I don't exactly agree with Eran (nothing personal ) But then again, my idea of Hell is a lot different from Jack Chick's Hell. The Bible is very vague on the subject, so there's a lot of room for interpretation. I do think, though, that the Bible says those who refuse to submit to Christ's authority will be cast aside to Hell, whatever it looks like.

Well, I don't plan on finding out about the afterlife, so I'm pretty well betting against the Second Coming.

Speaking of the Second Coming, and people's aversion to Christians (again, in general): there's a certain glee when Christians talk about the Second Coming. I remember it being palpable in the church. I couldn't help but think "does that mean that non-Christians go to Hell, when the Second Coming arrives?" I thought it a little selfish to look forward to an event which would damn my friends.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

That got your attention, didn't it?

Actually, what I'm really trying to say is that I don't understand why so many non-Christians seem to think Christians like me want to conquer the world. Apparently, our message looks imperialistic to them, like we want to convert everyone. They don't seem to realize that the Crusades were almost a full millenium ago.

Why do people seem to think Christians (or any religious people for that matter) are going to put them to the sword if they don't convert? What do they fear us?

Four times a year when I go to school, there are people out front handing out little books with quotes and psalms from the Bible, and telling us to accept the "Lord". We also used to get several people a month asking us to join their faith, I grant you many were Jehovah's Witnesses, but there were some that weren't.

I accept their right to spread their message, as I whole hearted support free speech, even if I don't like what you have to say. But this is starting to get out of hand, and some of the people that came to our house were over-zealous at trying to get us to join. The most extreme case I heard was when my grandpa tried to close the door on one of them, but they put their foot in the way. He was two seconds away from getting a free ride in a police car.

By all means spread your message, but bear in mind, something that is repeated, unwanted, and even offensive, is harassment, thus against the law. Also remember, it's not how you meant it, it was how it's percieved, and if I percieve it to be offensive, then you are trodding the Legal/Illegal line.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Here is my other problem with christians they hand over there soul to another being, or so they belive, how can I respect someone who will sell away there existence in exchange for a reward? Whatever happend to "Give me liberty or give me death!"

That is a theological difference. Christians do not see submission to God's will as the loss of liberty, because a) it is, it must be, voluntary, and b)because it is the path to real lasting happiness. I do what God wants me to do because He knows more than me; but if I were compelled to do so, or if I lost the ability to back away if I chose, then it would be meaningless. Liberty includes the liberty to obey.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Here is my other problem with christians they hand over there soul to another being, or so they belive, how can I respect someone who will sell away there existence in exchange for a reward? Whatever happend to "Give me liberty or give me death!"

Well, the religious are capitalists too. But you make an excellent point .

 

[ulsterman88]

Relating to the question in the thread, in northern ireland there is a hell of a lot of pressure on young people to go to church, believe in god etc. moreover most young people are forced to go to church right up until they're 16/17. Even in most schools evolution is laughed at and creation is taught as fact in useless religious education classes which are compulsary in some schools until you leave at 16 or 18 years old. If you ask me this shows how narrow minded christians are.

 

[warpus]

Actually, many atheists have been convinced of the existence of God because of the amazing beauty of creation. Frances Collins, for one.

He was the lead scientist in the Genome Project.

Yeah, and? There are instances of people dropping religion and becoming atheists.