COTM02 will start on the first day of the next month, ie tomorrow...
edit: X-post, I should've known..!
edit: X-post, I should've known..!
COTM 02: Pregame discussion
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
Roland Ehnström
Prince
civ_steve said:
I've concluded at almost exactly the same strategy as you for the first few moves (did it before I read you post, honest!
). Moving the worker (NW looks best to me, because 2 NW is definately coast, allowing us to see further) is worth it (barely), because IF we are on a peninsula rather than an island, I would settle my first city W NW rather than SE (and then later come back and settle SE). Now, assuming that this worker move shows that we are on an island, I will move the settler SE and settle on the BG. I usually never settle on BG, because that way you basicly lose 1 shield every turn for the rest of the game, but this time the extra whale and the extra space for a second city in the hills, makes it worth it. The worker will move back to the G and build a mine and then roads.
Build order for my first city (Amsterdam?) will be curragh, settler, curragh, warrior (for happiness). The second settler will settle my second city W NW from the original location, if that's hills (which it looks like to me), or W if W NW is something better than hills. The worker will mine and road the remaining tiles on the island, and then join the first city.
Assuming we start with Alphabeth and Pottery, I will research Writing flat-out from the start. Then Code of Laws, followed by Philosophy and hopefully Republic as a bonus. Then I should be able to trade for the rest of the ancient sciences.
-- Roland
Roland Ehnström
Prince
gozpel said:
You can't really use statistics this way. The point about disabling SGL is not that it's unfair to anyone in perticular, but that it doesn't allow for meaningful peer-to-peer comparison.
An example to highlight this: What if there was an "Über SGL" in the game, that automaticly wins the game for you and gives you a score of 10000, but the chance to get him was only 1 in 1000. Using your line of thinking above, one could say "Hey, that's still fair, 'cause anyone can get him and everyone has the same chance to get him". But quite obviousely, it would be crazy to have such a unit in the game.
Some randomness is fine, but with the point of a COTM being to allow more meaningful peer-to-peer compraison than the high-score tables, you need to disable the most unbalancing unit in the game: The SGL.
-- Roland
a space oddity said:
oh, i thought normal gotm's started on the 1st and cotm on the 16th... im sure i read that somwhere... oh well.
i started cotm1 really late and so havnt finished yet (i dont win games quickly as it is)
i may have to abandon it...
It's the other way round, actually.
COTMs span the month from 1st to last day, while GOTMs go from 15th to 15th.
COTMs span the month from 1st to last day, while GOTMs go from 15th to 15th.
Roland Ehnström said:
One of the advantages of forming the capital to the SE is that it automatically expands culture on its 10th turn, gaining the two Whales. Any other city would have to build a cultural building first, which is a lot of delay in using the 2 strongest tiles currently visible. Even if we are on a peninsula and this is a bad spot for the capital, it can be moved later.
I wonder if this is a little nudge of Ainwood to let people get some experience moving the capital. I know that I still have qualms doing that.
Something tells me that the difficulty level (monarch) would have been higher if we were NOT on a small island. The last two games have been regent, monarch already.King Of America said:The bonuses suggest to me that we're not on a tiny island--no point in giving bonus units in that kind of situation (unless you also plan to allow transporting units in curraghs
Roland E., welcome! The share of Swedes is quickly approaching 1/33...
I did move the Palace in my GOTM32.
It wasn't funny at all, with all those stones and the heavy furniture...
It wasn't funny at all, with all those stones and the heavy furniture...
I ran a test game as England, deity. Writing was reached in around 40 turns. I chose a slingshot to MapMaking and reached it around 1600 BC. Of course, this was a totally different map. I had 3 or 4 cities by the time the slingshot took place. This could have been more had it not been for raging barbarians. On Monarch, I'm considering researching Map Making and then sling-shotting to Republic as described by Cuivienen. This may work yet I see three important factors (apart from the obvious "are we on an island?"):
1. Not trading Writing to the AI?
2. Joining the worker?
3. Bonuses for town no. 2?
1. Not trading Writing to the AI?
2. Joining the worker?
3. Bonuses for town no. 2?
Email10
Swedish Viking
Megalou said:
I think it's a lot higher than that.. more like 1/10th
You, me, Roland E (Welcome along fellow Swede!), Gozpel, flexo, ...
It should be less than half as you're only eligable to play Conquest if you've never finished in the top half of the results.dmanakho said:
King Of America
Warlord
It's true that if you ever finished in the top half of a GOTM/COTM (say that five times fast), you can't play Conquest but if 40,000 people join today, they could all play Conquest.
Seriously, even though I plan to play Open, I only won cracker's last Monarchy GOTM in Conquest by the skin of my teeth, so I can't criticize nyone who takes the units and cash.
Seriously, even though I plan to play Open, I only won cracker's last Monarchy GOTM in Conquest by the skin of my teeth, so I can't criticize nyone who takes the units and cash.
Roland Ehnström
Prince
civ_steve said:
Yes, I thought about this too, but in the case of us being on a peninsula, it's likely that most of the settleable land is to the north (also see the minimap), which makes SE a terrible location for our capital corruption-wise. Quite possibly, in this scenario, my second and third cities would be inland (perhaps there is a river up there), leaving the SE location to be settled later, at which point it won't be much of a hassle to build a temple. It's either this, or moving the capital later, which I feel must be more of a delay than having to build a temple.
-- Roland
Roland Ehnström
Prince
Megalou said:
Thank you!
I've been a regular civ-player since 1991. I used to hang out on Apolyton for a while, but COTM drove me over here.
-- Roland
bradleyfeanor
King
Lots of differing opinions in this spoiler: excellent.
I plan to do the SE move with the settler: with both whales it is not a bad location at all. I am not concerned about the palace move later, because even it the start does open up to a large westward continent, I would probably wish to move a palace city founded on the hills also. In other words, the landmass would have to have a very odd shape to make either location good for the palace.
My worker will develop the start square, then move NW. His next move will depend on what he uncovers. I like civ_steve's worker-join, as that strategy worked well for me on a few archipeligo maps in the past, but only when there were very few tiles to develop. I ran a few test scenarios, and (given our limited knowledge) the worker-join appears to enable research of Poly about 5 turns earlier than without the join (with an initial build of two carraghs, warrior and research of writing > poly). But there are other possibilities of course.
So if the worker move NW reveals the end of the island, he will join the city. If he uncovers developable terrain, however, he will go to work on it for the second city. I think it will be worth researching Poly about 5 turns later in this case, because I will recover those turns in subsequent research by working the developed terrain around the second city.
PS: I would like to thank Ainwood and the GOTM team for always making decisions that ensure skill outweighs luck in the GOTM. There have been numerous such decisions in the past, from goody huts to scientific AIs to SGLs. Such luck and randomness in a regular single player game is fine, but it would detract from the GOTM. Comparing strategies to other players is one of the most appealing aspects of GOTM, but only as long as skill outweighs luck. For instance, if a player landed an early SGL or two, and built the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse before 3000 BC, there would be nothing to learn by studying their opening moves. Nor would their be any reason to compare their game to anyone else's.
So, thanks again guys. You put a lot of work and thought into this competition, and it shows.
I plan to do the SE move with the settler: with both whales it is not a bad location at all. I am not concerned about the palace move later, because even it the start does open up to a large westward continent, I would probably wish to move a palace city founded on the hills also. In other words, the landmass would have to have a very odd shape to make either location good for the palace.
My worker will develop the start square, then move NW. His next move will depend on what he uncovers. I like civ_steve's worker-join, as that strategy worked well for me on a few archipeligo maps in the past, but only when there were very few tiles to develop. I ran a few test scenarios, and (given our limited knowledge) the worker-join appears to enable research of Poly about 5 turns earlier than without the join (with an initial build of two carraghs, warrior and research of writing > poly). But there are other possibilities of course.
So if the worker move NW reveals the end of the island, he will join the city. If he uncovers developable terrain, however, he will go to work on it for the second city. I think it will be worth researching Poly about 5 turns later in this case, because I will recover those turns in subsequent research by working the developed terrain around the second city.
PS: I would like to thank Ainwood and the GOTM team for always making decisions that ensure skill outweighs luck in the GOTM. There have been numerous such decisions in the past, from goody huts to scientific AIs to SGLs. Such luck and randomness in a regular single player game is fine, but it would detract from the GOTM. Comparing strategies to other players is one of the most appealing aspects of GOTM, but only as long as skill outweighs luck. For instance, if a player landed an early SGL or two, and built the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse before 3000 BC, there would be nothing to learn by studying their opening moves. Nor would their be any reason to compare their game to anyone else's.
So, thanks again guys. You put a lot of work and thought into this competition, and it shows.
al_thor
Prince
Indeed. The starting position is a quandry. I will often move my initial settler one tile, and sometimes I will move 2 tiles. I don't know ainwood, but I suspect that there is an awesome location THREE TILES to the NW. Still, that's a gamble when the 1 tile SE as the capitol will expand to the 2 whales for "free". A secondary city at the SE location will require a cultural building in order to reach the whales - not a great prospect given the limited Bonus tiles in the immediate vicinity and no forrest to be harvested.
I'm torn between taking the risk of heading NW with the settler or just moving SE and "settling" for the somewhat tantalizing whales. Hmmmmmmm.........what to do? I may have to take several shots of "courage" (aka Tequila) before making those critcal first moves.
I'm torn between taking the risk of heading NW with the settler or just moving SE and "settling" for the somewhat tantalizing whales. Hmmmmmmm.........what to do? I may have to take several shots of "courage" (aka Tequila) before making those critcal first moves.
SniperDevil
Skipper of Barnegat Bay
i think im gonna go NW with the settler
