COTM 11: Second Spoiler

ainwood said:
the AI appears to be allowed to use deficit spending... Running huge negative GPT even with zero in the bank.
I remember seeing some analysis a while back that indicated that the AI sets its science slider to the highest percentage it can afford at the turn when it starts a new research project, and doesn't change it until the project finishes. Other gpt deals can end, specialists can be hired, and major changes can occur in territory or cities, but no slider adjustments are made until the next project starts.

I can't recall where it was, so its provenance is somewhat suspect, but it somehow didn't surprise me when I read it. If it's true, it's not surprising that the AI civs finish up in deficit quite often.
 
ionimplant said:
how can you know this? how AI spend their money has always been a big mystery to me... very often getting all the gpt from them (like 200gpt) will cripple their research completely but sometimes it doesn't.... and how all of a sudden they have a lot of gold from nowhere and then it'll be gone for no apparent reasons (lux trading, tech, etc.) and someone mentioned that AI doesn't use the slide bar and tackle the happiness problem by using entertainers. is this true?
I have ways and means of investigating... :mischief:

Seriously, I haven't looked in a lot of detail, but have done some investigation in to how the AI handles its economy. It might actually make a good war academy article at some point. :hmm:


AlanH said:
I remember seeing some analysis a while back that indicated that the AI sets its science slider to the highest percentage it can afford at the turn when it starts a new research project, and doesn't change it until the project finishes. Other gpt deals can end, specialists can be hired, and major changes can occur in territory or cities, but no slider adjustments are made until the next project starts.

I can't recall where it was, so its provenance is somewhat suspect, but it somehow didn't surprise me when I read it. If it's true, it's not surprising that the AI civs finish up in deficit quite often.
That sounds like useful info, Alan. I might have a more in-depth look at this. :)
 
OPEN, going for Domination

Since we were not allowed to post minimaps in spoiler 1. these are my maps during the AA:

Ronald_cotm11_3.JPG


The land I discovered so far had no horses at all. Nevertheless I researched all the way towards MT, since I had hope that there are horses somewhere.

Ronald_cotm11_4.JPG


My first try was the viking island, but no horses there.

Ronald_cotm11_6.JPG


Next I tried The Netherlands, but no horses there either.

At this time I was amost convinced that there will be no horses at all. Can Karasu be really that evil? Since it's a regent game why not?
So I rushed to fight the Indians, because if there are no horses, the only civ which can build a fast MA unit are the Indians with their war elephants and I did not want to have to fight them with my MI.

Finally, when I started my war against the celts, I found this:

Ronald_cotm11_7.JPG


At that stage I was not happy, I already set my mind to dominate the world with MI's, but now I switched my production to cavalry and finished the game 23 turns later.

That's the progress report:

Ronald_cotm11_5.JPG


It was a great map, but I would have really appreciated having no horses at all, this would have been even more fun for me.
Anyway, Karasu, thank's for this cotm.
 
Arrrr, after my AA, in which I'd hiked my settler 6 squares north in hope of a productive empire, I felt like I'd lost a bet. I'm a Palace-jump believer now. Anyway, enter the MA in 90BC, at war with Carthage, one city taken so far.
70AD -Meet Mongols. Yes, I didn't have boats for a long time.
110AD- Meet India
Now to make a long story short. Captured Carthage in 260. Researching toward Military tradition, but quite quite slow, intending to mostly pointy stick-it. Peace with Carthage in 460 AD. Scandanavia was targeted next for war, starting in 480. At first culture flips caused more casualties that battle (I was unlucky and not careful enough), but soon the foot-soldier death toll really added up. In 500 the Knights Templar was completed in Seoul. (Along with the SoZ, Seoul produced some units). Still, it took until 740 to capture Trondheim and the Great Wall (I'd have fought the Dutch, but they already had those swiss guys...). Around this time old Carthaginian cities flipped to me, 2 out of his remaining 3, which was nice for a change. Made peace with Vikings in 790 for some tech, and destroyed them soon after.
Wasn't sure which path to take from here, as everyone was wayyy ahead in tech and getting stronger. Horses were being traded out of Mongolia, but my rep was long shot and I couldn't get 'em that way. So I did some spectacular galley chaining to India, drawing in Mongolia with an MPP. Ghandi gets no more horses for the rest of the game. Japan declared on us, and they get divided up between us and Mongols.
In 910 I claimed the Celt horses without starting any wars, although Celts had hooked them up. Nice. But riflemen were everywhere, and things were looking tougher. 1030, after taking just a few Indian towns, I make peace for Military Tradition. But not before drawing Celts into the war. My Golden Age started this year as well. 1040 my horse city flipped, but I already had two dozen in queues, so it was OK.
I had a rather peaceful GA, but no one else did. I made an MPP with the Dutch and declared on Celts. AI Rifles vs. Rifles is fun to watch- I win every time! Mongols stayed at war with India, grinding up their cavalry. The Celts had marched something like 40 units into Mongolia to get to the Indians and had very little left at home. When I declared on Celts, Mongolia simply disposed of that whole army. Nice! The Dutch tore them up from the other front. I controlled the old Japanese land between Celts and Mongols, and made a funnel of units and towns for the Mongol cavalry to run through on their way to Celt land, opening and closing the end to just keep them stranded in my land. When the moment came, I declared on Mongolia. 12 cavalry destroyed in Japanese lands-plus a great leader- and 7 more destroyed in old Indian territory. I had 37 units outside Karakorum, a defended settler on the horses by his capitol, and unhooked his other horses.
So, I captured Karakorum, which contained the Great Library, the Oracle, Copernicus', and Smith's. How long till that flips? It's an IA matter. Nobody but me had horses, and the constant war had driven Mongolia into Anarchy- I saw only 3 more cavalry out of him until they became Fascist. In 1240, the Great Library provided Education, Printing Press, Banking, Astronomy, Democracy, Economics, Navigation, Physics, Theory of Gravity, Magnetism, Nationalism, Communism, Industrialization, Corporation, and Fascism. So I'm in the IA, it's a good story, but not so great a result I suppose :p
 
Ronald said:
It was a great map, but I would have really appreciated having no horses at all, this would have been even more fun for me.
Anyway, Karasu, thank's for this cotm.

:lol: Don't say that twice... :evil:

Actually, now that I see your terrific finish date, I think that you are probably right... Next time no horses, no iron, and your archers will have to fight blindfolded! :worship:
 
Karasu said:
:lol: Don't say that twice... :evil:

Actually, now that I see your terrific finish date, I think that you are probably right... Next time no horses, no iron, and your archers will have to fight blindfolded! :worship:

Archers are not good enough, but longbowmen in combination with a 3 defending unit should be able to do the trick :D
 
DBear's CotM11O Medieval Age highlights:

Towns founded:
150BC: Pyongsong
10AD: Taejon
50: Paegam
130: Manpo
150: Kaesong
360: Chonju (flips to Dutch in 690)
400: Sariwon
580: Suwon
1010: Taegu

Technologies:
250BC: Mono (bonus), Lit (trade)
130AD: Feud (trade)
250: Engineer (trade)
460: Invention (war--woulda got next turn anyway), Theo + Chiv (trade)
610: Guns (learn), Ed (trade)
750: Chem (learn), bank + astro (trade)
870: Nav (learn), Music + Nav + PP (trade)
950: Econ (trade)
980: Physics (war)

Scores:

Wars:
370BC-210BC: Vikings for same reason. Have to show that we can't be pushed around! Hareid autorazed, Vikings pay us 40 for peace.
170BC-460AD: Celts try to extort mono from us and declare war. Why can't they just trade feud for it? Celts are far away, I don't see how they can get to us easily. Celts come thru Carthage, I bribe Carthage in. Celts take Utica, I take it from them.
150BC-300AD: Mongols try extorting too. Everyone thinks they can push us around, they better think again. We sunk one of theirs, they sunk one of ours and started lurking around. The Celts are the bigger problem, so I gave the Mongols Feud to go away.
480AD-580: Dutch want all our gold when we're running a deficit. I refuse, they declare. Turns out to be completely phony.
740-980: Celts send about 8 mace into my territory. They want to go another round. My crusaders will greet them. For good measure, I'll bring in Carthage again.

contacts:
310AD: embassy to Carthage. Turned down science to build up money to build it to bribe Carthage to war against Celts.
580: Embassy to Dutch. After the phony war, decided to build embassy to ease tensions.
750: Embassy to Vikings. They are 5 turns from Leonardo.
950: Embassy to Mongols. They had their own war going vs. the Celts and were happy to deal w/me.

Wonders:
470: Seoul builds Templars. Just acquired Chiv in trade and decided to go for the sure wonder.
540: FP in Hyangsan.


Miscellany

250BC: Revolt--7 turn anarchy.
150AD: I see no river, but se and 2se of Kaesong are labeled flood plain instead of desert.
570: Sabratha flips to us.

The Celts were at war virtually the entire Middle Ages--if not with me, then either Mongols or Japan.
 
Open, barbs fixed
20K

I entered the MA in 290 BC. Pyongyang nets 18 shields, on its way to a sustainable 17 shields - at 18 shields they are starving - and much later back to 18 again when I get a mountain mined and irrigate some grassland. I'm working on hanging gardens, which I finish in 130 BC. I can't rush a colosseum in 1 turn, but I can get it in 2. Then I have to wait for something to build, as there are no available wonders and no culture until I learn monotheism. In 50 AD I build a cathedral. Sistine Chapel comes along in 490, then I rush a university in 500 and finish copernicus' observatory in 720. I entered the industrial ages in 850 AD and finished a bunch more middle age wonders after that.

Culture-wise, I was satisfied with my performance. I had cash available to rush my improvements speedily and I picked up the wonders I wanted. I stewed a bit over whether to build the cathedral first or continue with a Sistine Chapel prebuild, but I decided culture in the bag was worth some shields I couldn't buy.

I have three wars during the MA. In 370 the Celts declare on me and raze a city. I trade engineering for some alliances and ignore them. After the alliances expire I make peace, trading 40 g for a worker. In 550 the Dutch declare. I try to use this as an opportunity to take their one city on my side of the water, but I kill lots of units (theirs and mine) without success. I make peace for a while and then just before entering the IA they attack again, leading to an almost equally uneventful 20 turn war. The rest of the game was somewhat more eventful, but that'll have to wait.
 
Predator, barbs fixed (for what it matters with sedentary barbs)

Going for a Conquest Victory

The Ancient Age, 4000bc—330bc
I decided to wait and post this AA spoiler in the second thread because of the inability to discuss horses or talk about unique features of the map in the first thread. Both were big factors in my strategy and decisions (as I imagine they were for most people), and it would have been a poor summary if I did not mention horses, coastal routes, or the Viking’s “nominally pagaea” island. :)

The summary is as I wrote it at the end of the Ancient Age for the most part (I had already written it when I read the spoiler rules about horses and such, and I didn't feel like rewriting it), but I went back at the end of my game to add a few comments and dates.

Initial Thoughts and Plans
Given this was a Regent level game and nearly all the AIs had early middle age UUs (F10), I thought it would be great to do most/all of my conquering in the Ancient Age with horsemen. So, along with expansion, acquiring horses was an early priority. :rolleyes:

I expected to have a large military, and perhaps a large worker force too. That, along with the Predator handicap of decreased unit support, made Republic seem a poor choice of governments. Therefore I hoped to use the Philosophy free tech to get Monarchy.

I didn’t expect to ever see the Hwacha in the game, so I planned to trigger a GA with wonders. Ideally, I wanted to capture one wonder and then build one to kick it off.

First Moves
Moving SE looked like a fine place to found the capitol, but a second city seemed even better for that location. It could generate 10spt even with a loss of 1 shield to corruption. It could also be a second-city 4-turn warrior/settler factory if fresh water could be located. I decided to move the settler north to get a more central palace location and hopefully find some fresh water—which he did, of course. I settled north of the game and the worker immediately began clearing and irrigating it. He then irrigated his way to the cow for what would be my second city. The second city would be founded SE of the start to allow irrigation to be brought quickly to the cow.

I worked out a couple of start options at this point, and decided that immediately building a settler to go claim the cow (and share the soon-to-be-irrigated game) was the best option. After that I built worker, curragh, granary. My second city built a granary right off the bat, then settler, a couple of warriors for happiness, and a few additional workers to develop the city into a 4-turn warrior/settler factory.

I decided to enter Micro-Management Hades by irrigating both the wheat and the cow. This meant I had to constantly switch the game back and forth between my first two cities, but there is no denying that it was worth it for the extra food.

Exploration
I focused heavily on growth at the beginning and was slow to build curraghs or exploring warriors. My first curragh was out in 2590bc and my second in 2110bc. They met the AIs on the following dates:

Contacts
2900bc Carthage (they found me)
2430bc Vikings
1910bc Indians
1790bc Netherlands
1375bc Mongols (who own strange, hairy beasts, but ride them not!)
1350bc Celts
1075bc Japan

My curraghs also revealed the general topography of the “nominal” pangaea. There were good coastal routes to most locations on the map, so I planned to build lots of galleys to transport my troops around.

Lack of horses was a really big problem, and I knew it was going to make the game pace plod along. There was still a lot of territory to explore, but I didn’t expect to find any. It was quite conspicuous that none of the civs had them except the Mongols: the furthest civilization from us on the map.

I established an embassy with the Dutch in 1375bc and discovered that, taking into account city growth, they would build the pyramids in about 25 turns (750bc). I also established embassies in India and Carthage in 1275 but they were quite far away from building any wonders. In 1050bc I had a bit of spare cash, so I decided to build an embassy with the Vikings: I was now worried about them getting the pyramids, because I was sure they were on an odd “nominally pangaea island.” If they got the pyramids that would basically ruin the value of the wonder for me. The investigation did not bring happy results: they would finish the pyramids before the Dutch (775bc). This led me to pick up the pace of building my military. I had wanted to go for the Mongol horses as my first military target, but I didn’t want the Vikings to get the pyramids so they moved to the top of my hit list.

Empire Expansion
As mentioned earlier, my second city was to be a 4-turn warrior/settler factory. It went online around 2070bc, although it produced a settler, worker and a couple of warriors in the meantime (it also took a break around 1850bc to build a barracks). Seoul did not complete its granary until 1950bc (built a few curraghs and workers first). My next few cities also got granaries. There was a lot of land to colonize and develop, so I knew I would need lots of settlers and workers.

Carthage was able to slip one settler into my land before I cut them off at the ivory. I had one settler in the northern area that could beat Carthage to any location. Unfortunately, there were two I wanted: the incense and the iron. I decided to take the incense because the iron would take a bit longer to get hooked up anyway. Therefore Carthage claimed the iron.

Early on my cities concentrated entirely on building settlers and workers, but around 1200bc they began assembling a small military due to the impending conflict with the Vikings. Also, Seoul began constructing the SoZ around this time (ToA as prebuild).

BF_COTM11_EndQSC.jpg


1000bc Stats
32 citizens
12 towns
1 city
1 settler
11 workers
1 slave
6 warriors (2 vets)
5 archers (all vets)
1 catapult
3 galleys
3 curraghs
3 barracks
4 granaries
All techs except Cur, Const, Republic, Lit
72g in treasury, making 16gpt, research is off, Lux rate at 40%.
In 5th place with 169. Dutch are #1 with 241.

A few of the galleys and archers were short rushed with cash.

Research and Government
My initial research path was pottery, writing, both at max. I hoped to trade for CB and Myst, then research Poly and Phil, getting Monarchy for my free tech. I had hoped that this game would be an AAC (Ancient Age Challenge), but the lack of horses and the insane research rate of the AIs put an end to that pipe dream. To my great surprise and dismay, the “ignorant” regent AIs learned writing before me—in 2030bc! :eek: I still had about 5 turns to go, so I traded for it. I would love to know how they researched so quickly. (I later learned that most of them had great starting locations on long, commerce-rich rivers, but I suspect they had oodles of goody huts as well.)

The AIs already had a ton of tech when I traded for writing, so I despaired of making any sort of slingshot to a government tech. I decided to start immediately on philosophy at max. In 1575bc, when I was a few turns away from discovery, I changed my mind and turned research way down.

There was little to be gained by going ahead and getting philosophy: it would give me a free tech, but the governments were not available. Researching a government would take me 40 turns, because I knew I would need money for upgrading troops. In the worst case, the AI would get Phil before me, but then I would just trade for it (and the freebie) by using the cash I had on hand to broker techs amongst the AIs (many of them did not know each other).

There was plenty to be gained by delaying discovery of Philosophy, however. It was quite likely that one of the AIs would research CoL or Poly before they researched Phil., and that would enable me to get my free government tech. The plan worked, but it took a bit longer than I expected for the AIs to research one of the techs. The Dutch learned CoL in 1350bc. I was excited, but it turned out to be irrelevant, as my curragh met the Celts on this same turn, and they had Polytheism. I turned up research, and on the in-between-turn, I discovered Philosophy, traded it to the Celts for Polytheism, and got Monarchy for my free tech. I immediately revolted and drew a 2-turn anarchy (I only had 5 cities at that point, but 4 more would be founded in the next 2 turns). I also traded around techs (stingily) to all the other civs, learning everything except Const, Cur, Lit and Republic. I didn’t give anyone Monarchy, however, because I wanted them to stay dumb for as long as possible.

I turned off research at this point for many, many years. I decided to raise money for war while the AIs finished the Ancient Age for me. They got Construction in 900bc and Republic in 670bc, but it took them forever and a day to get Currency, not learning it until 330bc. We traded at that date and entered the Middle Ages, getting Feudalism for our free tech.

Warfare and Wonders
I had one “hot” war and several “cold” wars in the Ancient Age. The Celtic Cold Wars lasted from 1325bc to 975bc and from 530bc to 90ad (ended after the Ancient Age). This slowed down their research and development as well as that of the Dutch and Carthage, whom I put at war with them. The Mongolian Cold Wars lasted from 1275bc to 975bc and from 570bc to 250bc, and slowed the pace of both them and India.

India made peace with Mongolia briefly in 1050bc and I decided not to pay them to re-declare, because I needed a bit of cash to rush troops. They started ToA on the following turn. That was a screw up on my part, although I didn’t realize it at the time. I should have paid whatever was necessary to keep them at war. If I had, I don’t think they would have started that wonder. It would have been much better for me if any of the other civs had gotten the ToA, because India was the furthest out of my way.

In 975bc the Dutch signed peace with the Celts, and, like the Indians, both these AIs started the ToA—but two turns too late for my purposes. I decided to give the Mongols and Celts peace on this turn as well, because they would both surrender cities. I get one from the Mongols and two from the Celts.

The free cities were not to be mine for long, as I had pretty much expected (I only took them to pad my score for a few turns and hopefully incite a war declaration that would bring me war happiness). The Mongols destroyed the Japanese in 925bc, and in 570bc they decided to attack me when I refused to give them literature. I gave their free city to the Indians a turn before they could take it from me to avoid any war weariness. I redeclared on the Celts myself in 530bc in order to sign the Dutch back into the conflict. As in the Mongolian Cold War, I gifted each of the free Celtic cities to the Dutch when Celtic troops arrived.

The Scandinavian War, 800bc—510bc, 410bc—270bc (3 turns after entering the MAs)
As I mentioned earlier, I began planning this war in 1050bc because I did not want the pyramids constructed on an island. It would delay my plans to acquire the Mongol horses, but at the time I felt it was worth it. I signed an RoP with the Vikings in 1025bc in order to ensure I could reach their capitol before the wonder would complete in 775bc. The Vikings didn’t have contact with anyone, and I hoped to keep it that way so no one would ever know of my treachery. Around 900bc I spotted a Viking galley that disappeared into the city of Bergen. I dedicated one of mine to blocking that cities water access so the galley couldn’t get out. A couple of others took up locations north and west of the Viking island, just in case they decided to make a mad dash for foreign contacts before I killed them.

I spent the next 8 turns short-rushing a few archers, catapults and galleys and moving my troops into position to take the capitol. In 800bc I gifted the Vikings Monarchy to cause them to enter anarchy and prevent pop-rushing, and then I attacked their capitol with 5 archers, 3 warriors and 3 cats, and the city of Bergen with 4 archers. I lost three of my archers in the attacks, but captured their capitol (destroying their Pyramid build) and autorazed Bergen, destroying their now-dangerous galley.

After that the war proceeded slowly but surely. It got a bit easier after 730bc because I completed the Statue of Zeus in my capitol. I used a slave to build a colony on the iron outside Trondheim in 710bc, and rushed a harbor in a coastal city in 570bc to connect iron and wine to the rest of my empire. I would have done it sooner, but money was tight. Swordmen started joining the war after that. I gave the Vikings peace in 510bc for 2 cities—just to hurry their destruction along a bit. I redeclared on them in 410bc, and in 270bc they were gone.

A pic of the Eastern (Old) Empire…
BF_COTM11_EndAA_East.jpg


And the new Western Holdings…
BF_COTM11_EndAA_West.jpg



Summary and Plans
I currently have 1 city, 27 towns, 2 settlers, 18 workers, 13 slaves, 12 Swordsmen, 9 catapults, 1 Medieval Infantry, 3 Ancient Cavs, and a few warriors and archers. Research is off except for a few scientists here and there, and it will probably stay that way for a while. I am making about 40gpt, and I will use that money to continue rushing and upgrading troops. I will try to time the discovery of Invention for right around the time my capitol will have enough shields to build Leonardo’s Workshop.

Cities that can use a border expansion are building libraries, but everyone else is concentrating on settlers, medieval infantry, catapults and galleys. I don’t intend to build any courts, temples or markets in this game. I will build aqueducts and harbors where needed, but I probably will not be able to divert cities to building them until around the time I attack the Dutch (when I will no longer need to keep cranking out military).

Carthage should complete the Great Lighthouse at any moment, so they will be my target after the Vikings. I will give them peace as soon as I can. Then I will use my extra galley movement to get my military over to the Mongols and take their horses. Simultaneously, I will attempt to wage a war against the Dutch for their Pyramids. I hate waging two (or more!) wars simultaneously, but I really don’t want to face Swiss Mercenaries if I can help it.

I currently have the Colossus in my capitol (built after SoZ), and it is now working on a prebuild for Leonardo’s Workshop. The Dutch are building the Mausoleum in their capitol to go along with the pyramids. Hopefully, I will take the Dutch capitol’s wonders and connect the Mongol horses before I complete Leo’s. That will start my GA. I will use the science boost to reach Chivalry quickly. Meanwhile, nearly all my cities will be building horsemen for a massive upgrade to knights and a worldwide push for Conquest.

The Middle Ages summary will follow shortly…
 
Predator, barbs fixed

Going for a Conquest Victory

The Middle Ages, 330bc—Conquest

Plans
In 270bc the Vikings were dead, and the plan was to immediately take a few Carthaginian cities, including their capitol which had just finished the Great Lighthouse. That would be useful in getting my troops to Mongolia more quickly. The next step would be to simultaneously attack the Dutch and Mongols. These wars were necessary in order to have a very productive Golden Age when Leonardo’s Workshop completed in my capitol around 300ad. I had to take the Mongol capitol in order to use my GA to build horses for upgrade to knights, and I needed the Dutch capitol in order to have a GA at all: they had the Mausoleum which would fulfill my scientific trait requirement. The war would also get me the Pyramids and, hopefully, prevent the Dutch from building their Swiss Mercenaries—the latter was to be avoided at all costs.

Warfare
I was forced to do a lot of simultaneous fighting in this game. There were two reasons for this: 1) the map was very large, with 60% water, and the AIs were spread out on far-flung peninsulas. I wanted to avoid needing to make a long trek at the end of the game which would delay my victory date. Establishing a slow but steady advance on all fronts seemed the best way to avoid that problem. 2) I didn’t want any of the AIs to get too strong and build lots of their unique units—particularly India, the Mongols and the Dutch.

I was pretty successful in the latter, but it was a close call. The Dutch got Feudalism before I could attack, but they only managed to upgrade 4 units to Swiss Mercenaries before I pillaged their irons. The Mongols never had a chance to build their Keshiks (and, oddly enough, they never even built a horseman). The Indians got one Jumbo, and that one only because it was the free unit they received when I had a city flip back to them. Here is progress picture along with an extremely quick summary of the wars:

BF-COTM11_Empire-progress.jpg


The First Carthaginian War, 130bc—50bc
Fought with Medieval Infantry and Trebuchets to capture the Great Lighthouse, which was extremely useful on this map. Carthage was very weak, but I left them with three cities because I needed to ship my troops to Mongolia.

The Dutch War, 90ad—500ad
Fought with Med. Inf. and Trebs at the beginning (around 8 of each) and knights (about 40 of them) and Trebs (around 15) at the end. The war started with an RoP rape which trashed my rep, but losing one’s rep against regent AIs doesn’t really affect the game much anyway. The reason for the war was to gain the Mausoleum, which I needed to trigger my GA, and to get the Pyramids, and to prevent them from building Swiss Mercs. Both wonders were captured on the first turn of the war. After that I just went for slow, steady progress. Most of my new military units were sent to the Mongol war until my GA began. In the latter part of this war I also sent a force of galleys, Trebs and Knights to clean the Dutch and Indians off the islands to the east.

The First Mongol War, 130ad—290ad
Fought with Med. Inf. and Trebs, about 8 of each. Captured horses on the first turn of the war (RoP rape). I gave them peace pretty quickly so I could concentrate on building horses for upgrade to knights.

The Indian War, 320ad—530ad
I had every intention of RoP raping the Indians in this war, but they beat me to the punch. They chose a good time, too. They immediately captured two of my workers and razed a city I had acquired from the Mongols. I also now had a small force of Med. Inf. and trebuchets stranded on a hill near their capitol. I had planned to attack them in 5 turns, when my knights would finally arrive. Fortunately, I did have a pikeman a few moves away from their only source of iron, and he managed to pillage it in 340ad. After that, it was just a matter of time for me to get my knights over. By the end I had around 30 knights and 12 trebuchets in their territory.

The Second Mongol War, 450ad-550ad
This was a sneak attack, not an RoP rape (my rep was blown). The Mongols were wiped out with knights (and armies) returning from the Indian War.

The Second Carthaginian War 510ad—530ad
Not much to report. I had about 80 knights at this time so they didn’t last long.

The Celt War, 510ad—580ad
See Second Carthaginian War. It should have been over two turns earlier, but they were able ship out a settler on a galley and it took me two turns to find and kill him.

I didn’t get into much detail on these wars, because the key to winning them quickly was actually in the timing of my Golden Age. It started with the completion of Leonardo’s Workshop in Seoul (the Mausoleum in captured Amsterdam and the Colossus in my capitol satisfied the wonder requirements). Here is a screen shot that shows my military at the beginning of my GA, in 280ad, and at the end in 480ad.

BF-COTM11_Bef-Aft-GA.jpg


It was a great GA for building horses and upgrading to knights. The capitol could build a horseman per turn, 7 cities could build horsemen in 2 turns, and 10 cities could build them in 3-5 turns. Since I turned research off after Chivalry, I was making about 340gpt, and that was nearly enough to upgrade all of the horsemen to knights.

The only disappointment in this game was in the leader department: a few hundred elite victories, but only 3 leaders. I would have expected more since I was mostly fighting against spearmen and archers.

Final Thoughts
This was a really fun map, thanks Karasu! It was the most challenging regent game I have ever come across. I’m pretty happy with my game, but in retrospect I think it would have been faster to go for domination/conquest with Cavalry. I feel this way mainly because of the remoteness of the horses and the sprawled-out landmass-of-many peninsulas, but also because of the amazing tech pace established by DaveMcW—he could have sent out cavalry shortly after the switch to AD!

As for the next game, I will second the request for India. I wouldn’t mind playing with an agricultural civ either, but only if it is on a really tough map and difficulty level. Agricultural is just too powerful otherwise.
 
I could have gotten Military Tradition in BC, but at that point I didn't even know where the horses were! I only had 2 warriors exploring the continent, after my curraghs got me all contacts.

It looks like the key to getting a high score on this map is early exploration to find the horses.
 
DaveMcW said:
I could have gotten Military Tradition in BC, but at that point I didn't even know where the horses were!

How quickly you got there was shocking, to say the least. I never imagined that tech could move at such a pace in a regent game.

Did your Mongols not hook the horses up (and thereby reveal they had them via resources on the diplomacy screen)? This info actually threw me off a bit: I immediately assumed that they were the only civ that would have them, and I didn't discover the horses between the Celts and Dutch (which was easier to get to) until near the end of the game.

It will be interesting to see how early domination can be reached in a game where someone goes for the horses as early as possible, or for cavalry as early as possible. I think a victory in the 400s is possible.
 
@breadleyfeanor: awesome game :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:
@DaveMcW: Military Tradition in BC :confused: , only you call pull that off: terrific :worship: :worship:
 
bradleyfeanor said:
Did your Mongols not hook the horses up (and thereby reveal they had them via resources on the diplomacy screen)?
Good point. Now that I look again, they did have horses connected. I just couldn't believe that was the closest source. :crazyeye:


@Ronald: Sir Pleb did a Siphai rush at ~200BC in the Ottoman GOTM.
 
Open class, on track for a 20k win, but will I make the 18th century?

The Medieval Era (in which PaperBeetle realises that without his micromanagement, he is nothing)

I didn't quite understand all the talk about resources in the ancient spoilers, but I notice that there's one resource which I don't have in this game, which I usually take for granted. My rep. In the ancient era I played at pitting the AI against each other, which made some enemies, and then after getting a savage beating at the hands of a single Mongol archer, broke an alliance to treat with Temujin. Early in the medieval, I find myself making things worse.

I start the era in 290 bc, bringing my 20k city, Seoul, up to full size and working on the Gardens. The rest of my empire is not in good shape though. By the time the Vikings settle on my eastern coast in 190 ad, I have only nine towns, corrupt, poorly connected and mostly undefended. I fear the Vikings for soon they will have Berserks, but the more immediate problem is that I am giving them ivory. When I realise they have a wonder build which they could switch to Zeus, I panic and break our trades. Ragnar is furious, and no one else seems too impressed either. As a staunchly honourable player, I feel I'm uncharted waters here. These are anxious times, but the dow never comes.

I feel safer after finishing Zeus myself, and putting the Templars next in my itinerary. Turning my attention to bulking up the Korean empire, I start filling in my continent while also competing for the eastern islands; India beat me to Gem Isle by a turn, but I got Wine Isle and Banana Isle, wondering if there might be a strategic resource in those jungles later (although the AI hasn't tried for this location yet, which suggests not). The Dutch have finally started settling out here too, but I'm rushing culture more aggressively than them and flipping some towns.

Things seem less precarious as I get into the heart of the medieval era. Gifts and gpt payments for ROP are keeping AI attitudes buoyant, at least among the civs that I haven't directly insulted. My wonder program ticks along nicely, letting the AI occupy itself with the military wonders on the bottom branch of the tree while I scoop the religious stuff. I also start sniffing around for spare resources; trading with the AI is too expensive given my world standing, so in 770 ad I squeeze a town in between the Japanese and Celts, bagging some silk.

Then in 990 ad Hanni ROP rapes me. I'm not sure why; he was one of the only civs with a weaker military than me, and my ancient cavalry brush off his attack admirably. My people rejoice at being so cruelly set upon, and I rejoice for I shall send my cavalry and crusaders off to Carthage to gain glory and great leaders. I capture the first town easily, but my unsuccessful seige of his ivory town wastes the best of my units. Meanwhile I am struggling to contain a trickle of galleys trying to sail around to the undefended bulk of my empire. Things improve when my hwach'a come online, and in 1110 ad I initiate my golden age, picking off a fleeing Carthaginian longbow.

Seoul steps up production to 38spt, my meagre forces annex another two Carthaginian border towns, while I squeeze another luxury camp in between the Dutch and Celts, and I ease into the industrial era in 1180 ad. In research terms, I am still neck and neck with the AI, who are mostly friendly with each other and trading happily amongst themselves. I shall try to bankrupt them with tech sales, starting with my free Medicine. I also feel good about grabbing the last medieval wonders - this is probably quite a good time to have my GA.

Culture in Seoul:
Palace 3900 bc
Colossus 1870 bc
Temple 1700 bc
Oracle 1100 bc
Library 1000 bc
Lighhouse 370 bc
Gardens 50 ad
Colosseum 110 ad
Zeus 280 ad
Cathedral 350 ad
Templars 530 ad
Michaelangelo 750 ad
University 770 ad
Copernicus 920 ad
Bach 1130 ad
... makes 6180 culture at 71cpt, for a projected win in 1874 ad.

The crass error of this era was my waste of a military leader. He emerged in combat with the Carthaginians, and gleefully rushed off to form an army, which would allow me to build that precious Epic... When I looked again, I found that the city to which I had gone did not contain an army, but a brand-new courthouse :sad: Will I get another chance? Time will tell...
 
Congrats, Bradleyfeanor! :goodjob:

Sorry, I totally haven't time for detailed post. :(
But I reached domination limit much later then you already in industrial age so I'm not your competitor now. Just I go for other type of victory... :rolleyes:
 
Dynamic said:
Congrats, Bradleyfeanor! :goodjob:

Sorry, I totally haven't time for detailed post. :(
But I reached domination limit much later then you already in industrial age so I'm not your competitor now. Just I go for other type of victory... :rolleyes:

I am guessing you must have gone for your 20k. That, or you got your dreaded, evil, miserable, epic, real-life-destroying Cow game out of the way. If so, I am envious. I hope you have time to post a spoiler at some point!
 
bradleyfeanor said:
I am guessing you must have gone for your 20k. That, or you got your dreaded, evil, miserable, epic, real-life-destroying Cow game out of the way. If so, I am envious. I hope you have time to post a spoiler at some point!

Yes you guess it, I have gone for 20K. See my post in the last spoiler.
 
Open - going for 100K

Basic plan: I missed out on the Rep slingshot so i'm going to go for Feudalism and culture it up a la Dynamic. I'm going to need the Pyramids which have just been built in Amsterdam. My main goals for this era are to occupy Carthage (they are weak but have land) and the Dutch (who are strongish but have Pyramids and beautiful rolling fields to allow me to grow whippable citizens :devil: )

The Instigator
Okay, in 470BC we build the SoZ and start pumping out AC. I need to start weakening everyone. I declare war on Japan in 350BC hopefully sending them my way through Hannibal's lands. Eventually in 250BC we learn Feudalism and revolt, getting 6 turn anarchy. 5 turns later i recruit Hannibal to fight the Japanese. In 110BC we enter Feudalism. One of my intrepid warriors discovers the horse between the Celts and the Dutch. I need this tile! The only other horse I know of is deep in Mongol lands. The last place I want it... The Celts and Dutch are a couple of land monsters so hopefully i can get them to cripple each other. Declare on Celts and send Dutch towards Entremont with a gift of Monotheism. In 90BC we declare on India and send the Viking barbarians to duke it out with them. Next turn, the Khan senses my interventionist game and demands Feudalism from me. No way dude. He declares. Bothered? :cool:

Hannibal's lesson
In 110AD, Carthage and Japan sign PT, effectively breaking our MA. So I decide to punish Hannibal. With our stack of MedInf and AC we capture Utica, Leptis Minor and Carthage. We sign PT with Mongols and get them to vent frustration on Japan. We trade for Engineering and Chivalry from the Dutch. We capture Leptis Magna, Hippo and Sabratha in quick succession. I sense the Celts are still too strong, and they have recently build the Great Wall so I ask Japan and Mongols to keep them busy. 330AD sees Hannibal's effective exile from the continent.

William's surprise
We nestle an outpost on the south of the Netherlands and fill it with troops. After learning Gunpowder in 480AD, and sensing William is fatigued I declare on him and make my way towards Amsterdam, capturing Groningen, Maastricht, The Hague and Holwerd on the way. Amsterdam falls in 500AD. We create a similar staging post in Scandinavia just in case, but i doubt i will need to use it. we take a couple more Dutch cities and ask for peace in 570AD. The road is clear to the horsies now. Yay! The Celts now have SunTzu, which is fantastic. :rolleyes: I have a land and culture monster in possession of Knights Templar, Great Wall and SunTzu, couldn't be worse really.

Golden Age
We take a couple of poorly defended Celtic cities but the others are too strong until I get some firepower. Declare on Japan again and grab a couple of easy cities. Get our first leader in 740AD and rush an army with him. Decide to leave him for a second since I will have cavalry in 2 turns. Then, my Hwachas get their first kill! BTW, these guys are awesome... Our golden age sees us go on a mass cavalry and Hwacha stampede. Besides, all libraries and universities are being taken care of by whipping, who needs production? :mischief: We grab a few more Japanese cities, and in 930AD we enter the Industrial Ages. Get Nationalism as our freebie. Hmm, Steam would have been nice, but you gotta love the draft... :D

930AD_-_indus.JPG
 
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