COTM 13 Pre-game Thread
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DJMGator13
Wondering why Builders can't build Roads
pindicator said:Just dandy... I come back to Civ III after a year and this is what you guys repay me with?
Come on, ever here of the story of the prodigal son?
Time to go through all the Diety SG threads I can -- hopefully it'll rub off on me.
Welcome back pindicator. Haven't seen you around since SGOTM02.
budweiser
King of the Beers
About Predator - I know I already made a lame joke about this, but what about a self imposed variant that limits your ability to wage war.
I am thinking about the 'we surrender' variant. Whenever in war, which you are free to declare as you see fit, you must always negotiate peace at the first avaialble opportunity whether you are able to achieve favorable terms through negotiations or not. A possible exception could be during the GA (napoleon) you do not need to make peace asap.
I'm not a diety player so I dont know if thios would kill you, but I can see it working for me at lower levels.
I am thinking about the 'we surrender' variant. Whenever in war, which you are free to declare as you see fit, you must always negotiate peace at the first avaialble opportunity whether you are able to achieve favorable terms through negotiations or not. A possible exception could be during the GA (napoleon) you do not need to make peace asap.
I'm not a diety player so I dont know if thios would kill you, but I can see it working for me at lower levels.
As another shot about predators "handicaps": when Cracker started this he specified a victory condition for predators. Clearly this may not be popular, and could devalue the other victory medals. However, it would be fun to read lots of different accounts from top players as they breeze to diplo wins, or conquest wins.
Dynamic
But not hurry
Offa said:
Very interesting idea! But it may be not suitable for eptathlon's players.
Zelda's Man
A Link to Something
I was of course joking about getting rid of the worker for the predator class. It would be extremely cruel to remove a worker from an industrious civ in the early game. The only reason I mentioned it is because I often here players adding the worker to the capital to start with 2 citizens so they can grow faster. I figured removing the worker would block that avenue. Another reason not to add the worker to the capital is because we are commercial too which means gold is supposed to be our friend, thus we need roads.
My favorite suggestion so far is the Great Wall in the capital for conquest players. Not having to build walls in the outer cities would save time and protect less experienced players (myself included) from an early sneak-attack....somewhat.
Of course a second settler is a huge advantage. It negates what I believe to be the AI's biggest early advantage.
Perhaps for predator class you could change the number of starting units for the AI to Sid level.
My favorite suggestion so far is the Great Wall in the capital for conquest players. Not having to build walls in the outer cities would save time and protect less experienced players (myself included) from an early sneak-attack....somewhat.
Of course a second settler is a huge advantage. It negates what I believe to be the AI's biggest early advantage.
Perhaps for predator class you could change the number of starting units for the AI to Sid level.
pindicator
Emperor
DJMGator13 said:
Hey, good to be back. I remember that SGOTM -- we did pretty well, didn't we? Or am I thinking of SGOTM1? Anyway...
I intentionally left Civ III behind when I went on my northern foray, so I would do something besides play it all the time. And what happens as soon as I get back? I go and pick it up again!
I have no hope, do I?
Back on topic...
What is a good research strat on Diety? I know that later on (and especially since we're commercial) you want to do coin-operated research with the lone scientist along for a 50-turn gambit. (I do miss the 40-turn max.) I remember seeing people use that even as early as the beginning stages... but if one was to settle on the gold mine my guess is that you'd want to churn out the research while you have it.
Jason Fliegel
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2003
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- 281
This may be more modding than goes into the typical xOTM, but one option for a predator penalty would be to make two kinds of settlers -- one that only France can build and one that only the AI can build. Then boost the food cost of the Frence settler to three (or if that's too harsh, boost the shield cost by whatever seems appropriate).
I think i'll play predator like i did in gotm43 whatever the 'bonuses' will be, even though i don't actually feel confident playing on deity from a starting position with no cows. That's simply more fun.
I didn't hear many suggestions about the opening moves, seems like everybody was busy thinking about the starting bonuses
. How about moving on the mountain 2W to have a look at the land there? There are 2 rivers in that direction and maybe some cows...who knows?
I didn't hear many suggestions about the opening moves, seems like everybody was busy thinking about the starting bonuses
. How about moving on the mountain 2W to have a look at the land there? There are 2 rivers in that direction and maybe some cows...who knows?
solenoozerec
Stranger
Obormot said:
I think you meant 2E. I'll send my first warrior there.
I think there is no much discussion of the starting sequence, because there are not that many possibilities.
I simply do not see anything better than to settle on the hill and start roading southern bg.
Well, I will not do it. I will mine sw, then move w/o roading and mine and road south. By that I will be at five sh on the growth turn to size 2 (after two warriors by turn 9) and have still the option to either make a granary on turn 19 ( with one chop) or continue with military before the first settler comes out.solenoozerec said:
The granary is my prefered option, if there isn't a multi cow heaven right around the corner.
Everyone is hoping for food...I'm hoping for Ivory just out of site. Fat chance, I know, but mathmatics for first research tech plus the Statue of Zeus sure would be nice.
Of course...based on Renata's demon smiley face, I'll assume we are hemmed in by Greece, Celts and Carthage with no iron, horses, or luxuries of our own.
cas
Of course...based on Renata's demon smiley face, I'll assume we are hemmed in by Greece, Celts and Carthage with no iron, horses, or luxuries of our own.
cas
A'AbarachAmadan
Deity
I 'almost' absolutely will settle in place. At this level no sense in moving (then again, I didn't move last COTM either while most did, so look to others who are more likely to do that). I will highly likely do the following worker moves: mine,mine,road,road(the two BG's), then chop which will yield warrior(5),warrrior(9),granary(19),settler(23-25 depending upon another chop and what is found under the forest); this has some waste on the warriors, but gets the granary on turn 19 so you don't have to delay size 3 timing. At this level I can't imagine not running into someone with Pottery quickly enough to research Writing directly, which I consider critical for a chance at the Republic slingshot, which I consider to be the difference between a good and average game.
Decision point at turn 10 to decide to go for another military or not. If not, another one at turn 12 where I could switch to city walls and another 1-2 military before a settler if I don't think I'll meet anyone to get Pottery.
However, my plans could completely change based upon what other civ's I see before I start. If lots of people have Alphabet I will either 1) forgo trying for slingshot and build Pottery first or 2) forgo trying for granary before settler which will change my worker moves to road,mine,road,mine for the extra research to still hope for the slingshot.
My first few cities will take advantage of early research potential, which is the only chance for a slingshot, one turn could be the difference. Don't rule out scientists toward the end of a research cycle to get you there one quicker. The first 4 cities will most likely be distance 2.5-4 (and on a river). (Just wish that gold to the SW was on hills, because I would put city 2 on it.) Of course I need to see what is there, but based upon what I see 2W, 2N?, 3NE,2E+1? (avoid the volcano for all) are potential city sites that look like they are on rivers and can be roaded very, very quickly to reduce corruption.
Conjecture on long term. Knowing Renata, I fully expect the first resourse I will find is saltpeter.
This would truely mess with those of us who like conquest and domination. Of course, then I would absolutely have to make that my victory condition and not consider the more logical ones. If we actually get horses/iron, not sure what I will go for (conquest or space race).
I just had a great/bad idea.
Conquest gets horses and iron within the first capital city radius. Open gets iron and 'no' chance of horses. Predator gets no horses or iron within reach while also having the AI with sid level units to start (which can be exploited).
Decision point at turn 10 to decide to go for another military or not. If not, another one at turn 12 where I could switch to city walls and another 1-2 military before a settler if I don't think I'll meet anyone to get Pottery.
However, my plans could completely change based upon what other civ's I see before I start. If lots of people have Alphabet I will either 1) forgo trying for slingshot and build Pottery first or 2) forgo trying for granary before settler which will change my worker moves to road,mine,road,mine for the extra research to still hope for the slingshot.
My first few cities will take advantage of early research potential, which is the only chance for a slingshot, one turn could be the difference. Don't rule out scientists toward the end of a research cycle to get you there one quicker. The first 4 cities will most likely be distance 2.5-4 (and on a river). (Just wish that gold to the SW was on hills, because I would put city 2 on it.) Of course I need to see what is there, but based upon what I see 2W, 2N?, 3NE,2E+1? (avoid the volcano for all) are potential city sites that look like they are on rivers and can be roaded very, very quickly to reduce corruption.
Conjecture on long term. Knowing Renata, I fully expect the first resourse I will find is saltpeter.
This would truely mess with those of us who like conquest and domination. Of course, then I would absolutely have to make that my victory condition and not consider the more logical ones. If we actually get horses/iron, not sure what I will go for (conquest or space race).I just had a great/bad idea.
Conquest gets horses and iron within the first capital city radius. Open gets iron and 'no' chance of horses. Predator gets no horses or iron within reach while also having the AI with sid level units to start (which can be exploited).
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
@A'AbarachAmadan: Hey, don't take things away from us Open players too!
I like Megalou's idea for open to give the AI an extra worker, and extra gold or zero gold for humans. It's not too drastic.
I like Megalou's idea for open to give the AI an extra worker, and extra gold or zero gold for humans. It's not too drastic.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
What's so cruel about taking away the Worker? We'll build 2 Warriors first anyway, thus can complete a Worker after that with growth.
Considering we start on gold, and have lots of BG, that will be by no means worse than a typical Deity start - when Flood Plains kill your pop.
Taking away the COM trait OTOH is a killer, compared to conquest/open. That translates to 'Demi-Sid' in that context. Same with removing one of the expensive starting techs.
But, taking away the IND trait would work. That one doesn't really affect the game difficulty - but the score, and that's why I have my doubts we'll see it.
Considering we start on gold, and have lots of BG, that will be by no means worse than a typical Deity start - when Flood Plains kill your pop.
Taking away the COM trait OTOH is a killer, compared to conquest/open. That translates to 'Demi-Sid' in that context. Same with removing one of the expensive starting techs.
But, taking away the IND trait would work. That one doesn't really affect the game difficulty - but the score, and that's why I have my doubts we'll see it.
Jonesy10
Chieftain
Wow, Diety again. I am a poor loser! All I can do in GOTM43 is hang on to my miserable existance. See my post in Hunting tips.
I think I will have to pass on this one Renata.
I bow before all those who can actually win at this level.
Its getting warmer outside these days, maybe its time for golf and yard work. I'll be thinking of you guys while I sit on my deck tipping back a cold one. Looking forward to the next Monarch game.
I think I will have to pass on this one Renata.
I bow before all those who can actually win at this level.
Its getting warmer outside these days, maybe its time for golf and yard work. I'll be thinking of you guys while I sit on my deck tipping back a cold one. Looking forward to the next Monarch game.
It's the loss of 10 turns of population growth I find murderous. Just recall how often you build a second worker before your first settler. It's probably not very often and there is a reason. Your suggestions are good although I'd prefer to lose starting techs rather than a trait. That would be repairable but require just the extra skill that a worthy predator player should have. (Not sure I'm one of those.)Doc Tsiolkovski said:
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