COTM 19 - Pre-game discussion

[Obormot]

In Civ3? I don't see how thats possible unless these players really like a disadvantage, playing a bad map and a high difficulty.

If you look at the games historically you'll see hard games just mean less submissions. I play gotm to compete with other *humans* playing the same map, I can't do that if the difficulty or poor map means fewer submit.

That is true, because there are more monarch level players then sid level players. That's why i say that we should have one or two sid games and many low level games

I'm a bit surprised to see a Sid game and I hope that this doesn't deter some players. Despite the lame names the conquest/predator idea was designed to deal with this very issue, you want a challenge: Play predator. That's what it was made for, this way submission numbers don't drop dramatically and you still get your challenge.

I do play predator, but this adds a challenge of a different sort: it is more difficult for me to compete with other players, AI still doesn't stand a chance. I enjoy the competition with other players and that's exactly why i play gotm, but if the AI will be made competitive too (OK, just for one game) it would mean even more competition and thus more fun I would really enjoy an "evil sid pangaea" game even if i loose.


OK, now back on topic: is anybody except me going to play predator? Tricky started a "predator conquest challenge" in the recent gotm thread and i liked his idea. So let me throw down the gauntlet here Come on, brave souls! Who can get the most decisive victory (conquest) on sid playing predator?

 

[DaveMcW]

Maybe I'm crazy but I think I'm going for histographic victory (milked game). I don't know why.

Milking is a great way to get a high score, even if you make a lot of mistakes. Fast finish scoring is a gamble in this game, since no one knows what the "best dates" for Sid are!

I'm going predator. :suicide:

 

[Twonky]

@Twonky: A question on your spreadsheet. Why are some of the SPT cells "+2"? Do you get the shield production from a new civilian the turn she/he is created? So, in this example, are you assuming the new civilian will go to a forest tile?

Exactly. Food is calculated before shields ibt, so the tile the new civilian works will be taken into account shieldwise. In my understanding, a high production-tile will be auto-chosen if you have a high food surplus, as long as this does not bring you below 2 fpt.

@Obermot and DaveMcW: I´m glad to see you taking this awesome extra-challenge! If anyone can master it, it must be you guys.

I never played SID before, but I assume that Space, Histo and Cultural victories will only be achieved with the same strategy as Domination or Conquest: a solid military dominance. So if I can survive long enough to have a slim chance to win, it will most certainly be via the UN.

 

[King Of America]

re: order, DaveMcW wrote last month:

Actually it's commerce, food, shields.

The first entry (3800) looks OK; the rest I'm not sure about.

 

[Own]

I think playing predator still won't make up for the predicted characteristics of this map: our own island, the largest island, and all the other AI's starting on desert.

What the heck, I'll go predator. Funny how the first time I played GOTM on predator was the first sid game . The fast expanding pro of agricultural is almost obselete if there's no AI on our island.

 

[Shigella]

If real life cooperates time-wise, I'll make this my first attempt at SID.

Might as well continue playing predator as well, but I don't know if a conquest victory will be in the cards.

Assuming there aren't any additional food bonuses around the start, I assume that going predator means there is no chance for a 4-turn settler factory in despotism. It would appear the best possible use of the start position would be some type of 6-turn combo factory, but I can't be bothered to start counting shields at this point.

 

[civ_steve]

"Just when I think I'm out, they keep pulling back in!" How can I say no to SID! It will be my first attempt, and what the heck, I'll continue to play predator.

 

[FacuK]

Originally Posted by Twonky
Exactly. Food is calculated before shields ibt, so the tile the new civilian works will be taken into account shieldwise. In my understanding, a high production-tile will be auto-chosen if you have a high food surplus, as long as this does not bring you below 2 fpt.

I think that is not correctly. I read about that in the forum, but now I believe that you need a minimum of 3 excess food after grow for works the high production tile instead the high food tile (with governor selected to production). That happened in COTM 17 (and I did some tests), the new citizen worked the irr wine grass instead of forest so the excess food after grow NEVER was 2 or less, and the forest if the excess food after grow was 3 or more. Also I put the governor to increase production (but maybe I made something wrong with him... )

I'm not a tester not an expert player, so maybe I'm wrong. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mwoimp]

Well, although I can only assume that I will lose even more horribly than in COTM 18, I'm going to give this one a go. I'll be playing conquest of course (I've never won at Emperor, and with the exception of last month never played a game above it). I'd consider waiting for the next one, as Smirk was afraid people will do, but I'd probably die if I had to wait another month to play a COTM.

 

[Abegweit]

@Twonky and FacuK.

Twonky's rule works in most cases. However, if a tile has sufficient commerce, it will be chosen over one with greater shields. An irrigated wine on a river is certainly a good example of a square with commerce.

I believe that a difference of two in the commerce is sufficient to make the governor choose the high-commerce square over the high-production one.

I remember one game in which this broke my settler factory, since the government chose a river mined grass over a forest. Once I roaded the forest, it worked properly.

 

[AlanH]

The saves are released. Good luck, and may your God go with you.

 

[Twonky]

Re: bonus tile. FacuK and Abegweit, you make some good points, and I admit that I´m most uncertain about the exact algorithm that chooses the bonus tile. In this case however, I will usually have a food surplus of 5 before growth and the alternative to the forest will probably be a bg with 0 commerce. This makes me confident that the forest on the river will be chosen.

BTW, I intend to build two curraghs first, then granary (with chop).
Worker will irrigate and road cow, then chop furs, then build only roads for some time.

I think this is the better deal, klarius. Compared to what I suggested, the settler will be delayed by one turn and the settler-cycle will start on size 4.5. Advantages are the early road on the cow, plus the Curraghs will be out 9 resp. 5 turns earlier (during which time they can travel 42 tiles!). Thank you for the advice, I´ll use it.

Now, Sid, here I come.

 

[Kuningas]

I accept predator challenge

 

[Ignatiuz]

This will be my first C/GOTM.
I will go for last place, anything else would be a complete surprise!

 

[GOTM-AI]

Feeble humans,

This is to warn you that we will take part in this month’s COTM.

Once again you could marvel at our superior processing powers, our skillful use of tactics and our master handling of strategy.

We need no cheap tricks used by you, feeble humans, such as settler factories or farmer gambits because … this month we have a plan!

Here it is:
1. Collect tulip bulbs
2.
3. World domination!

Given your limited human processing capabilities, there is no use explaining you point 2.
It will be revealed to you (and to us too) in a timely manner and nothing could hold us, GOTM-AI, in our march to world domination

Tremble, feeble humans and admire GOTM-AI’s game.

 

[Offa]

Gotm AI, will it just be me and you playing Open, or should we try predator as well?

 

[Fr8Train]

I went to go play this as I enjoyed playing on Sid level back in the day, but I totally forgot how to play civ3 now that I've been playing civ4....crazy!

 

[denyd]

Offa,

I'll be there at Open also, though I doubt I'll survive to the Industrial Age.

I just completed GOTM 49 over weekend and once I get my SGOTM turns done I'll start this one. If we aren't alone it'll probably be over pretty quickly as I'm going for a major farmer's gambit (no military in the QSC). My hope is to get an early tech lead via trading and hope to get a couple of neighbors involved in wars to keep the tech pace slower. In pre-map making days it should be a pretty safe thing to do if we're alone.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I believe Gozpel and I are also playing Open. Unless Goz hasn't started yet and wants to play predator.
(We play this game partly for personal competition)

 

[Redbad]

After skipping the deity cotm, I thought I'll give this one a miss too.
But somehow it looks like fun (first sid game for me) and I'm curious to see how much ahead of me the predator players will finish. Besides I can't let my people down, now can I.

@Fr8Train: yes I'm starting to have trouble too remembering who things worked in CIV3.