Creation Museum Marries Adam, Eve and Dinosaurs

[Pasi Nurminen]

Heck, Genesis is (for me) still a valuable source of information on the creation of the earth, but it clearly wasn't written by someone who knows how it happened.

But this may be the wrong thread for that debate.

Yes. The entire Bible was written by people who had no understanding of science for people who had no understanding of science. Back then, people often didn't even know precisely when one year ended and another began. Even as recently as just hundreds of years ago. Take Joan of Arc for example, during her trial she testified that she was "around 18".

Clearly, it is to be interpreted.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Pontiuth, I didn't mean that I thought it happened in that order, exactly as Moses wrote it, I don't think the order's even important. After all, it's a story meant to be told, and no one wants to hear the boring facts. If you want to appeal to lots of people, which is what you have to do if you want to spread a belief about anything, it has to be tellable, and thus, more like a story. The point is that God created, or allowed the creation of, the universe (it really depends on how you interpret it, but I put both, because one kind of implies the other, when you think about it), not the intimate and exact details, because, after all, the Bible, like any religious text, is not an exact thing.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

The ancient Israelis clearly believed in parts of Genesis as not a storytelling device but as scientific fact (e.g. the existence of a firmament is cited in way too many parts of the OT for this to be a poetic thing). There's no way of getting around the fact that they devoutly believed in a text that turned out to be wrong.

To my mind, the fact that they (& Moses/the writer/whoever) believed something that is clearly wrong is suggestive... it makes it perfectly plausible that they might have believed, equally wrongly, in a literal six days.

Heck, Genesis is (for me) still a valuable source of information on the creation of the earth, but it clearly wasn't written by someone who knows how it happened.

Genesis 1 tells us nothing our own discoveries haven't, and tells us a lot of things that just plain aren't.

How can Genesis be a source of info for you if you admit the guy who wrote it didn't actually know what he was writing about?

I didn't mean that I thought it happened in that order, exactly as Moses wrote it, I don't think the order's even important.

In other words, you and Eran are basically admitting "I don't really believe the specific Genesis account, I just believe in the idea of a Genesis." Why is the (wrong in so many places) version that's been written down more important than the body of knowledge we have discovered in the thousands of years since?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Genesis 1 tells us nothing our own discoveries haven't, and tells us a lot of things that just plain aren't.

I don't think you understand what I mean. I accept everything that science says about the origin of the universe, of the earth, and of biodiversity. What I take from Genesis is the idea that God created it all intentionally, according to a plan, and that He was pleased with the results.

The ancient Israelis clearly believed in parts of Genesis as not a storytelling device but as scientific fact (e.g. the existence of a firmament is cited in way too many parts of the OT for this to be a poetic thing).

They didn't really have a strict separation between science and mythology, either. Nor did they have any reason to think the earth hadn't been created in 6 days; the scientific method didn't exist, and God had more important things to tell them.

 

[MobBoss]

Yes. The entire Bible was written by people who had no understanding of science for people who had no understanding of science. Back then, people often didn't even know precisely when one year ended and another began. Even as recently as just hundreds of years ago. Take Joan of Arc for example, during her trial she testified that she was "around 18".

Clearly, it is to be interpreted.

Errr. You may want to rethink that. People had calendars back then and built extremely fine structures that are engineering marvels. Take the pyramids for instance.

People throughout history are often much smarter than people give them credit for.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Errr. You may want to rethink that. People had calendars back then and built extremely fine structures that are engineering marvels. Take the pyramids for instance.

People throughout history are often much smarter than people give them credit for.

That much is very true it is also true that scribes whom set to work reproducing the Bible by hand were illiterate. (Which is shocking notion but true)

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Errr. You may want to rethink that. People had calendars back then and built extremely fine structures that are engineering marvels. Take the pyramids for instance.

People throughout history are often much smarter than people give them credit for.

No, slave labour built the Pyramids under the direction of a handful of skilled people who still did not know much about science or physics, especially when compared with today. The average Joe Nobody knew absolutely nothing about sciences, and even the educated people did not know that much on average when held against what we know today.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Errr. You may want to rethink that. People had calendars back then and built extremely fine structures that are engineering marvels. Take the pyramids for instance.

Yeah, there were plenty of high civilizations in those times.

The twelve tribes of Israel were not among them. Neither was the Israel in which Jesus grew up.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

That much is very true it is also true that scribes whom set to work reproducing the Bible by hand were illiterate.

If they were writing, pretty much by definition they were literate.

Yeah, there were plenty of high civilizations in those times. The twelve tribes of Israel were not among them. Neither was the Israel in which Jesus grew up.

What is "high civilization"? If one doesn't live in such a place, that doesn't mean that they are stupid. And surely the Greeks and Romans were high civilization - their ideas on creation weren't much more accurate.

And this guy deserves a mention. Pay attention to where he is . . .

 

[bigdog5994]

No, slave labour built the Pyramids under the direction of a handful of skilled people who still did not know much about science or physics, especially when compared with today. The average Joe Nobody knew absolutely nothing about sciences, and even the educated people did not know that much on average when held against what we know today.

the pyramids weren't built by slaves, stop and watch the history channel every once in a while jeez

 

[Yuri2356]

If they were writing, pretty much by definition they were literate.

Not if they didn't understand the words being written. If I hand a peasant a pen and paper and say "Copy these chains of symbols from this page to that page," he'll be able to pull it off, but he'll have no idea what he's writing.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

And we have proof that that is how the Old Testament was written? Written, mind you, from oral traditions, not just copied from one sheet of paper to another. Or translated into other languages. All of which had to happen at some point.

 

[Yuri2356]

And we have proof that that is how the Old Testament was written? Written, mind you, from oral traditions, not just copied from one sheet of paper to another. Or translated into other languages. All of which had to happen at some point.

What I gathered from the original quote was that he was talking about the time between these events, when members of the church would be regularly tasked with making fresh copies of old documents in order to preserve them. That's what "scribes whom set to work reproducing the Bible by hand" said to me, at least. The original Authors and translators would need to know what they were writing.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Maybe they were, but there haven't been that many errors that came into the text as a result. Anyways, the errors could be the result of simple mistakes, even literate people make copying errors.

 

[MobBoss]

Yeah, there were plenty of high civilizations in those times.

The twelve tribes of Israel were not among them. Neither was the Israel in which Jesus grew up.

Actually, the Israel of Jesus time was part of the Roman Empire. Tell me again how the Romans were not a high civilization?

 

[JollyRoger]

Actually, the Israel of Jesus time was part of the Roman Empire. Tell me again how the Romans were not a high civilization?

When they were conquests of the Romans.

 

[MobBoss]

When they were conquests of the Romans.

And the Romans were famous for incorporating such nation/states directly into the Roman Empire. Again, Israel during Jesus' time was part of the Roman Empire...they paid Roman taxes and had Roman Governors to judge over them.

Again, I ask you, was the Roman Empire not a high or advanced society as you seem to allege? Because I think you are more than just a tad wrong on that tidbit.

 

[JollyRoger]

And the Romans were famous for incorporating such nation/states directly into the Roman Empire. Again, Israel during Jesus' time was part of the Roman Empire...they paid Roman taxes and had Roman Governors to judge over them.

Again, I ask you, was the Roman Empire not a high or advanced society as you seem to allege? Because I think you are more than just a tad wrong on that tidbit.

Israel was the Mississippi of Rome. Or maybe Kentucky.

 

[Phlegmak]

Oh marriage isn't a transitive relation? Fine. So in a polygamous set of relations between 1 man and 2 women, where the 2 women are married each, respectively, to that one man, what exactly is the relationship between the two women? Do they call each other "wife-in-law"? If they "did it" (i hope you are not disputing that the relation "family" being transitive), does it constitute "incest"?

Utter nonsense. Two wives of one man think of each other as sisters, essentially. Perhaps friends, or simply "the other wife of my husband". I can't believe you think the wives automatically have some "special relationship" with each other if they're married to the same guy.

 

[Phlegmak]

Here's the site for it. It's supposed to have opened 3 days ago.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/about.asp

From the museum's website:

After that, we'll take guests on a journey through a visual presentation of the history of the world, based on the “7 C’s of History”: Creation, Corruption, Catastrophe, Confusion, Christ, Cross, Consummation. Throughout this family-friendly experience, guests will learn how to answer the attacks on the Bible’s authority in geology, biology, anthropology, cosmology, etc., and they will discover how science actually confirms biblical history.

Geology and biology (and the other ologies) are attacks on the Bible? This is so sad.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/overview.asp

EDIT: I just found this site. The museum is now open.

http://www.creationmuseum.org/