Crusader Kings 2

[Double A]

And they still need to release CKZ.

 

[cybrxkhan]

i guess you could add a silk road mechanic, too

That's actually a good and serious suggestion.

I think on the PI forums, along with a religious overhaul (which we're getting with Sons of Abraham) and more dynasty/family mechanics (i.e. cadet branches, improved regencies, etc.), land Republics/land trade is one of the most requested things. I see a lot of potential in a DLC that focuses on land trade and Republics, combining things like Italian banking and the Renaissance-era republics, Trans-Saharan and Silk Road trade, etc.

I also think some of the expansions might cover more regional specific subjects as well, such as an HRE-focused expansion.

Contrary to what a number of people want, I don't think a Dark Ages DLC is likely or even possible, for various reasons, including the difficulty of simulating some of the historical developments particularly the migrations and the lack of anything remotely resembling the feudal structure outside of a few areas (the Magyar invasions of TOG were pretty messy both gameplay-wise and code-wise, imagine doing that multiple times over - and that's just for starters), the complete lack of decent historical or even mythological knowledge for large parts of the game world such as Eastern Europe and West Africa which would make creating the starting provinces and characters difficult to simulate, how to guide the development of Christianity into separate branches (as well as the rise of Islam), among other things.

Even then there's plenty of potential for new stuff anyways. The devs could extend the timeline into the later 1300s and early 1400s, they could have a 1000 bookmark or one in the 900s, among other things, so I look forward to whatever stuff they throw at it.

 

[scheva007]

canyou finally push multiple claims against the same person? I remember when i had the empire of brittania, i had to conquer the remaining bits (possesed bythe king of norway), one by one, really boring and stupid

 

[Double A]

I doubt they've changed it from only being able to press multiple, personal claims.

 

[Antilogic]

I don't mind the single claims rule for duchies or even counties, but for individual baronies? I thought it was a bit ridiculous that I had to wait for five years to go to war over a single barony, and have to repeat the process for decades to finally ensure territorial integrity.

 

[cybrxkhan]

New dev diary up on heresies, holy orders, and random miscellany: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ham-Dev-Diary-2-Holy-Orders-Heresies-and-More

For those who can't see:

Last week I told you about the College of Cardinals and the new papal powers (though I believe I forgot to mention that the Pope can also grant you claims on counties and duchies!) Today I'll go through the rest of the new Christian mechanics in Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham, as well as the new Muslim stuff. Let's start with the Holy Orders!

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We have given each non-heretic religion in the game at least one Holy Order. This includes the various pagan religions, though most of their Holy Orders are rather fanciful. The Catholics also get two more in addition to the old ones; the Knights of Calatrava and the Knights of Santiago, both of which are mostly active in Hispania. Holy Orders are no longer activated at a certain date, many will start showing up once the Crusades/Jihads kick off (which is also more dynamic now), or when certain conditions are met. For example, the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre (an Orthodox Holy Order) becomes active if Antioch and Jerusalem are Orthodox and held by Orthodox rulers. Holy Orders are now much more active in world politics, and both their internal and external mechanics have been altered. You can now borrow money from certain Holy Orders (like the Knights Templar), or donate money for Piety. They, in turn, will make various requests (and if you owe them money, it is hard to refuse.) For example, they can ask that one of your sons join them, or that you give them the right to build a castle in an empty holding slot in one of your counties. Internally, Grandmasters are no longer randomly generated characters, but chosen from among vassals and courtiers, many of which will now be important members of European nobility. Having a Grandmaster of your dynasty will give you a monthly amount of prestige. Castle holdings under the Grandmaster are no longer hereditary, but appointed to a "Commander" for life. We have also added some minor rules and decisions, like if you happen to be the king of Jerusalem, you now have the option to vassalize the Templars and the Knights of St John. Lastly, if you think that an Order has grown too powerful in your realm, you can expel it forever, seizing its castles (a very impious act.)

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Somewhat related to the Holy Orders, you now have the ability to order any courtier to take the vows and become a monk or nun. The character will then either become a regular monk or nun (traits), or go off to join one of the martial orders. Either way, he or she will be disinherited. Unfortunately, you are not allowed to do this against characters who stand to inherit titles (like younger sons under Gavelkind); unless you imprison them first!

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As I mentioned earlier, the Crusades will no longer necessarily kick off after a certain year; it now depends on the actual situation in Europe. For example, if Constantinople or Rome have fallen or the Moors are pushing into France. Similar conditions now apply for the Muslims. The Pagans - if they can have Great Holy Wars - will get them after the Crusades and Jihads are both active.

We have also improved on the heresies; most of them are now more distinctive and some of them even have their own heads of religion. For example, the Cathars can appoint female bishops and the Ibadi can now have their own Caliph, etc. The events that control the spread of heresies are different if you have Sons of Abraham; heresies tend to be more localized and it is also possible for minority view non-heretics among your courtiers to spread their faith (i.e. an Orthodox courtier among Catholics, etc.) Perhaps the most drastic change to heresies though, is that they can now take over as the new orthodoxy if they hold more provinces than the current mainstream form of the religion. If, say, more counties are Waldensian than Catholic, Catholicism will become the heresy and its Holy Orders will join the Waldensians. Oh, and we also decided to add "regular" religious rebels who are not trying to spread a heresy, just to gain freedom from the religious oppression of their overlords (e.g. Sunni rebels in a Catholic realm.)

Catholicism may have received the most attention in Sons of Abraham, but we have not forgotten the Muslims. They get a choice between two rival schools of theology and the conflicts that arise out of taking a stance. On one side, you have the Mu'tazili school, which espouses reason and rational thought inspired by the ancient Greek philosophers. Opposing them are the Ash'ari, who belive in the eternal, uncreated word of Allah. Historically, the Mutazilites lost out after some fairly brutal conflicts and draconian measures like the Mihna , arguably bringing to an end the Islamic Golden Age. In game terms, Mutazilites get a Learning bonus for research, whereas the Ash'ari gain Piety, and members of opposing schools tend to loathe each other.

I think that will do for now. Next week, I'll speak of pilgrimages, religious events and Judaism!

Looking pretty good. My thoughts:

• Little sad the Muslims won't be getting more, but hey, I hope they do get a lot of flavor events too to compensate.
• Sending people to monasteries sounds like something that could be easily abused in the hands of the skilled player. Well, we'll see.
• Although it wasn't mentioned in the dev diary, the devs said later in the thread the Holy Order's succession for the "Commander" person is a special one called "Appointment." The way they described it it could be useful for modders in, say, the ERE.

Anyhow looking pretty good. It's not a huge honking DLC like TOG or even SoI, but I like what I'm seeing even if it's not everything I would've wanted.

 

[Arakhor]

It's looking good. Even better, we'll be getting a "huge honking DLC" after Sons of Abraham.

 

[Double A]

I'm glad Catholics are getting way more attention than Muslims, Islam already has a major DLC. This should make Catholic lords interesting to play in terms of uniqueness and not just challenges and such.

 

[Antilogic]

I'm liking the new holy order mechanics.

 

[Evie]

Honking big expansion, uh?

They say it expands on existing mechanism rather than adding new ones, too. So probably no big world expansion, and no big timeline expansion.

 

[Glassmage]

zombie expansion next plz

 

[cybrxkhan]

Well, someone folks just brought up accusations of anti-semitism and accusations of misusing accusations of anti-semitism to make a point and so on in one of the Sons of Abraham thread on the PI forums. I'm surprised it didn't pop up earlier given the Jews are in Sons of Abraham. Ah, PI forums, you amazing forums!

Honking big expansion, uh?

They say it expands on existing mechanism rather than adding new ones, too. So probably no big world expansion, and no big timeline expansion.

Only two things I can think of right now would be some sort of economic/trade overhaul (that would add in landed Republics, land trade, other sorts of banking, etc.) and a dynasty flavor (revamp of dynasty mechanics somehow, cadet branches, regents, etc.), but both of those sound SoI-sized at best and not really ToG sized.

I think they could add in a new bookmark, say, 1000 CE, just to make the expansion bigger, as it isn't technically really adding new features for new groups per se, just a new playground for people.

 

[scheva007]

zombie expansion next plz

Dynasty game would suck if you cant die.....

Really hope the old gods go on sale for christmas

 

[Double A]

Well, someone folks just brought up accusations of anti-semitism and accusations of misusing accusations of anti-semitism to make a point and so on in one of the Sons of Abraham thread on the PI forums. I'm surprised it didn't pop up earlier given the Jews are in Sons of Abraham. Ah, PI forums, you amazing forums!




Only two things I can think of right now would be some sort of economic/trade overhaul (that would add in landed Republics, land trade, other sorts of banking, etc.) and a dynasty flavor (revamp of dynasty mechanics somehow, cadet branches, regents, etc.), but both of those sound SoI-sized at best and not really ToG sized.

I think they could add in a new bookmark, say, 1000 CE, just to make the expansion bigger, as it isn't technically really adding new features for new groups per se, just a new playground for people.

They could just add that stuff into the expansion as minor features.

Dynasty game would suck if you cant die.....

Really hope the old gods go on sale for christmas

You could be destroyed somehow, whether in battle, decay over time, or get assassinated. Though let's be honest, who doesn't want to play as a goddamn lich?

 

[Sonereal]

Dynasty game would suck if you cant die.....

You can die if you find yourself looking down a Valyrian blade.

I would want a zombie DLC for no other reason than to see loltastic White Walkers in the GoT mod.

 

[cybrxkhan]

They could just add that stuff into the expansion as minor features.

True, that's always possible. The expansion could simply be big because it's a bunch of otherwise "minor" additions coming together. Who knows.

 

[Glassmage]

someone made a zombie mod yay!!! Paradox 2 lazy 4 me

 

[cybrxkhan]

New dev diary up, mostly on pilgrimages and Jews. Linky: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-Abraham-Dev-Diary-3-Jews-Pilgrims-and-Events

It's Tuesday and time for another dev diary on the latest expansion for Crusader Kings II; Sons of Abraham. The topics of the day are pilgrimages, Judaism and religious events. First off though, for those who read last week's diary, we've changed how the Ash'ari and Mu'tazilite traits are handled a bit. They are now much more significant, because an Ash'ari no longer gives decadence to his dynasty, and the Learning bonus for Mutazilites is correspondingly higher (currently +5).

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Right, so, on the subject of Islam, one thing we were quite happy with in Sword of Islam was the addition of the decision to go on the Hajj, with the little adventure and the special trait you got at the end. Naturally, a lot of people thought we should add a similar thing for Christians, so that is exactly what we have done in Sons of Abraham. Christians get to choose between several different holy places. For example, Catholics can go to Canterbury, Santiago, Cologne, Rome or Jerusalem. During the journey, a regent will be appointed for pilgrim rulers and various adventures will unfold. Going on a pilgrimage costs a bit of money, and there are of course risks, but successful pilgrims will enjoy monthly piety and respect from their brothers and sisters of the faith for the rest of their lives. There could also be some unexpected benefits...

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In the same vein, we have added tons of events dealing with religious life, for Christians especially. Some are complex event chains (for example, there is one inspired by Joan of Arc) and others are simple (e.g. monks cure your illness.) There are events about relics, immoral priests (of most religions), the crusades, etc.

However, the feature in Sons of Abraham that appears to have garnered the most attention is probably the addition of the Jewish religion. Prior to the addition of the 867 start date in The Old Gods, adding Judaism to the game seemed relatively pointless due to the lack of significant Jewish rulers. In 867 though, there is indeed a powerful Jewish state; the Turkic Khazar Khaganate, which we previously represented as being of the Tengri faith, but which was historically well into the process of converting to Judaism at the time. (I think it is plausible enough that they did this in order to counteract foreign interference justified by Muslim and Christian proselytizing. Furthermore, it can be very beneficial for an empire to have a religion of its own as a vehicle for cultural cohesion and dominance.) Now, playing as the Khazars is not easy even in 867, due mostly to their powerful and aggressive neighbors, like the Pechenegs and the Cumans, but there is also a real risk of religious internal strife. In other words, it's a worthy challenge, like playing as the Zoroastrian House of Karen.

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Of course, there is an even tougher challenge available, even for those who do not have The Old Gods; one last Jewish Khazar duke is still clinging on in the Saray region in 1066, vassal to the Cumans. Now, Jewish players have similar goals to strive for as the Zoroastrians; you can try to restore the ancient united kingdom of Israel and Judah, restore the High Priesthood under the Kohen Gadol, and even rebuild the Temple.

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Apart from the Khazar Jews, there are also the Ashkenazim and Sephardim, in the form of learned men and courtiers who can show up in your court. If you run out of money as a non-Jewish ruler, you can also choose to borrow money from Jewish merchants. If you do not want to pay them back, you can actually expel the Jews from the realm (similar to what you can do with the Holy Orders.) You will, however, stop getting the benefits of having remarkably skilled Jewish courtiers to serve in your council, and you and your descendants cannot borrow any more money from their community. Obviously, this is a pretty terrible thing to do, but it does, unfortunately, have several historical precedents.

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I believe that about sums up the features of this little expansion. Next week I'll go through all the stuff we're giving you for free!

Judging from the way they described it, the Jewish pogorms are implemented in a way that is both simple and balanced, which is good - either you get nice courtiers and money, or you won't. I think keeping things simple and relatively abstracted avoids the controversy and potential offensiveness of it. Or maybe not.


Also I'm sad there are only Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. There should also be Mizrahi jews since during this time they were more distinct from the Sephardic Jews, to my knowledge. So we have Ashkenazi in Europe, Sephardic in the Mediterranean, and Mizrahi in the Middle East - would work out well.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Here's a video dev diary that was posted yesterday I think. Not a lot of new information, but we do see some of the features in action for the first time (such as the Christian pilgrimages, or Jewish courtier spawn):


Link to video.

 

[scheva007]

Strangly enough the whole collection, except old gods) is at -66% on gmg, while they had it -75ù before....