CTIV-1: The Turtle Game
- Thread starter ChrTh
- Start date
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
Sadly, my office has yet to be enlightened to the ways of CivIV during the working day.... 
Tonight, this morning, ah well. 
Pre-turn
Fire all the scientists and hire merchants. This doesn't really affect our research rate, and it gets our economy out of the red.
1956AD
Bombay Walls-->Infantry
1957AD
Hyderabad University-->Observatory.
Industrialism discovered; set research to Rocketry so we can get on with the Apollo. We need refrigeration for our health problems, too. Keep building fighters in Karachi. I adjust our research to 70% and our culture to 20%. It actually shaves a turn off of Rocketry (5 --> 4) and helps with our growing unhappiness problem. We have a number of alumininum resources, one of which is directly under Bombay. No mine required.
1958AD
1959AD
Descartes (Great Scientist) born in Delhi. Hmm, we didn't fire the scientists soon enough. Still need 2 great people for our last golden age. We can use Descartes for research into Fission. I'll pocket him for now.
1960AD
1961AD
Rip up a mine at Bangalore and replace with a windmill to prevent starvation.
1962AD
Rocketry discovered; start work on the desparately needed Refrigeration. Start working on the Apollo Program in Calcutta.
1963AD
1964AD
1965AD
Remember the extra great scientist in Delhi. Our variant hurts our economy (no foreign trade routes), but the rest of the numbers look pretty good.
Pre-turn
Fire all the scientists and hire merchants. This doesn't really affect our research rate, and it gets our economy out of the red.
1956AD
Bombay Walls-->Infantry
1957AD
Hyderabad University-->Observatory.
Industrialism discovered; set research to Rocketry so we can get on with the Apollo. We need refrigeration for our health problems, too. Keep building fighters in Karachi. I adjust our research to 70% and our culture to 20%. It actually shaves a turn off of Rocketry (5 --> 4) and helps with our growing unhappiness problem. We have a number of alumininum resources, one of which is directly under Bombay. No mine required.
1958AD
1959AD
Descartes (Great Scientist) born in Delhi. Hmm, we didn't fire the scientists soon enough. Still need 2 great people for our last golden age. We can use Descartes for research into Fission. I'll pocket him for now.
1960AD
1961AD
Rip up a mine at Bangalore and replace with a windmill to prevent starvation.
1962AD
Rocketry discovered; start work on the desparately needed Refrigeration. Start working on the Apollo Program in Calcutta.
1963AD
1964AD
1965AD
Remember the extra great scientist in Delhi. Our variant hurts our economy (no foreign trade routes), but the rest of the numbers look pretty good.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Roster
ChrTh
mjj55409 -- Just Finished
Dreylin -- UP
Ucel -- On Deck
chriseay
scowler
You replaced all my scientists?!?
ChrTh
mjj55409 -- Just Finished
Dreylin -- UP
Ucel -- On Deck
chriseay
scowler
You replaced all my scientists?!?
ChrTh said:You replaced all my scientists?!?
Yup.
This is still a concept I'm playing around with, but in some cases gold is more important that beakers to research. I swapped all scientists with merchants. This kept our research level the same even though I could drop the research rate to 70% and bump up the culture rate to 20%. Once we hit industrialism most of our cities went unhappy. Particularly I think because we are weak economically, merchants have a larger benefit for us.
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
Just to check before I start my turns - and I realise that it probably won't matter - but is our stated goal a Space Race victory, or would we be happy with Diplomatic? I realise that we can't actually build the UN, but we are the largest Civ, so will be voted for at some point (assuming an AI builds it). Just wondering in terms of trying to keep our friendly Civs friendly when they come to us for Techs, etc.
FWIW, my opinion is that as Turtling Isolationists (nothing like those Cubans, of course ) we would probably Abstain from all votes unless it's something which goes against our fixed Civics, in which case vote against. Thoughts?
This is not my "Got it" post - should be able to do that this evening, though.
FWIW, my opinion is that as Turtling Isolationists (nothing like those Cubans, of course
) we would probably Abstain from all votes unless it's something which goes against our fixed Civics, in which case vote against. Thoughts?This is not my "Got it" post - should be able to do that this evening, though.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I've been thinking about the UN. Here's my thought on the matter, welcome to other opinions:
We should abstain from anything that forces a specific civic.
We should vote for nuclear weapon elimination.
We should vote for ourselves to win the game and to be Secretary General
As Secretary General we can only call a vote for nuke elimination and victory.
Space isn't our target, it's just our most likely. But then again, we may very well win via Diplomatic.
We should abstain from anything that forces a specific civic.
We should vote for nuclear weapon elimination.
We should vote for ourselves to win the game and to be Secretary General
As Secretary General we can only call a vote for nuke elimination and victory.
Space isn't our target, it's just our most likely. But then again, we may very well win via Diplomatic.
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
I think my thoughts were more along a non-interaction basis than yours, but 2 of the Civics votes would force us to change from out Turtling Civics, so I was thinking we should vote against. Agree with Abstaining on rest of those.
Nuke Elim, I wasn't sure; we can't build Manhattan, but would we build Nukes if someone else did?
Sec General I was figuring was kind-of against our Turtling philosophy as well, as it requires us to talk to others & initiate votes (contact), which we're not allowed to do.
I do agree that we should vote for ourselves to win, though!
Nuke Elim, I wasn't sure; we can't build Manhattan, but would we build Nukes if someone else did?
Sec General I was figuring was kind-of against our Turtling philosophy as well, as it requires us to talk to others & initiate votes (contact), which we're not allowed to do.
I do agree that we should vote for ourselves to win, though!
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I can't recall, do you need to be Secretary General to win a diplomatic victory? If not, then yeah, scratch that.
I don't like voting against the Civic change, because in its own way it's us asserting ourselves, just in a negative fashion. I prefer abstaining, to be honest.
We can't build Manhattan Project, but it enables nukes for everyone. As for us building nukes, well, wouldn't mutually-assured-destruction be a plausible scenario for a turtle Civ?
I don't like voting against the Civic change, because in its own way it's us asserting ourselves, just in a negative fashion. I prefer abstaining, to be honest.
We can't build Manhattan Project, but it enables nukes for everyone. As for us building nukes, well, wouldn't mutually-assured-destruction be a plausible scenario for a turtle Civ?
Technically, no. But I have not yet seen an AI call for a diplomatic victory vote. So realistically, we need to keep the SG option open. We've spent the entire game thumbing our noses at the other Civs, so I don't think a diplomatic victory is likely, but you never know...ChrTh said:
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
I don't /think/ you need to be SecGen for a Diplo victory, but I can't recall /not/ being SecGen in any game where the UN's been built. There are always two choices to vote for (largest Civ & UN builder) when the Vote comes up, so I'd assume if the non-SecGen Civ got the votes then it would win.
I can accept Abstaining from all Civics votes on grounds of non-involvement, but then why would we vote against Nukes?
I think Abstaining from all - unless it's for Victory and we're one of the candidates is probably the most consistent stance.
I can accept Abstaining from all Civics votes on grounds of non-involvement, but then why would we vote against Nukes?
I think Abstaining from all - unless it's for Victory and we're one of the candidates is probably the most consistent stance.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Dreylin said:I don't /think/ you need to be SecGen for a Diplo victory, but I can't recall /not/ being SecGen in any game where the UN's been built. There are always two choices to vote for (largest Civ & UN builder) when the Vote comes up, so I'd assume if the non-SecGen Civ got the votes then it would win.
I can accept Abstaining from all Civics votes on grounds of non-involvement, but then why would we vote against Nukes?
I think Abstaining from all - unless it's for Victory and we're one of the candidates is probably the most consistent stance.
The reason to vote against nukes is because they affect us even if we're not the target of them. God I feel like a 70s bumper sticker ...
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
ChrTh said:
Heh, but isn't that also true of the Civics votes?
I mean global Free Market forces us to actually (Ick) trade with other people!?!?!?
I would have thought that that was of more concern to our Civ than the possibility of World MADness?
Not too concerned either way, just trying to understand the rational....
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Dreylin said:Heh, but isn't that also true of the Civics votes?
I mean global Free Market forces us to actually (Ick) trade with other people!?!?!?
I would have thought that that was of more concern to our Civ than the possibility of World MADness?
Not too concerned either way, just trying to understand the rational....
It's a sticky issue. Ok, how about we vote against everything except abstain from Sec Gen & Victory unless we're a choice (in which case we vote for ourselves)?
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
ChrTh said:
I can get behind that "We don't want them forcing their ways on us" approach; we don't want them to
us!ChrTh said:
I think that's best. After all, if an individual leader tried to persuade us to change civic we'd refuse, right? It's a pity there isn't an option to defy the UN resolutions (as with the SMAC leadership vote).
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
OK, I got it now ... hopefully post soon.
Dreylin
Cousin Itt!
1965AD (Inherited)
Bangalore is Starving with 2 forced Merchants ... fix that.
Hyderabad is working a coast tile instead of a Town ... fix that.
We're paying 52gpt to maintain our excess army. Finally take an executive decision to sack some obsolete units; 11 Archers, 2 Spearmen & an Axeman saves us 7gpt. There's certainly space for us to go further with cuts, though.
We're running 70% Science, 20% Culture. Can't see any mention of why, but figure there's probably a good reason, so only adjust it to 80/10. With only 65turns left, we don't have time to research the rest of the tree so we're not going to be off to Space ... doesn't look like the others will make it either, though.
1966AD
Izzy wants Open Borders - Nope.
Hatty wants to trade Musicals for Pigs....
Karachi: Fighter->Fighter
Destroy a Windmill we're not using for some extra Aluminium.
Science up to 90% to get Refigeration next turn.
1967AD
Regrigeration completes - Radio for Bombers next; Science back down to 80%
Jaipur: Battleship->Supermarket
Suopermarkets ordered at all Wealth cities -> knock Science down to 70% so we're still turning a profit.
1968AD
Mine Aluminium at Kolhapur - using it Stagnates the city, but it'd never get much bigger anyway.
1969AD
Kolhapur: Aquaduct->Factory
Lahore: Supermarket->Wealth
Aha, so happiness is why we're running 20% Culture! Thought about changing Representation to Sufferage, and looked to see if that would hurt happiness ... Yes! Back to 60/20/20.
1970AD
Hatty demands Biology; she's currently at +9 relations, and we'd need her for a vote win, so I say yes. She goes to +11.
Portland: Lighthouse->Granary
Karachi: Supermarket->Fighter
1971AD
Karachi: Fighter->Wealth
Jaipur: Supermarket->Coal Plant
Hyderabad: Observatory->Bank
1972AD
Liz, OPen Borders, Nope.
Dehli: Supermarket->Wealth
Bangalore: Supermarket->Wealth
Washington completes Apollo Program! (We still have 8turns to go) Tech-wise, he's up Plastics & Radio, but we have Refrigeration - which is needed for Genetics.
Back up to 70/20/10 and still at a profit. Radio in 4.
1973AD
AM: Supermarket->Wealth
We pop Aluminium near Lahore!
1974AD
Mansa wants Open Borders - Ha!
1975AD
Bombay: Supermarket->SAM Infantry(part completed)
Hatty's loseing ground at Alexandria, but I think we're suffering at Hastings:
and the Save:
Bangalore is Starving with 2 forced Merchants ... fix that.
Hyderabad is working a coast tile instead of a Town ... fix that.
We're paying 52gpt to maintain our excess army. Finally take an executive decision to sack some obsolete units; 11 Archers, 2 Spearmen & an Axeman saves us 7gpt. There's certainly space for us to go further with cuts, though.
We're running 70% Science, 20% Culture. Can't see any mention of why, but figure there's probably a good reason, so only adjust it to 80/10. With only 65turns left, we don't have time to research the rest of the tree so we're not going to be off to Space ... doesn't look like the others will make it either, though.
1966AD
Izzy wants Open Borders - Nope.
Hatty wants to trade Musicals for Pigs....
Karachi: Fighter->Fighter
Destroy a Windmill we're not using for some extra Aluminium.
Science up to 90% to get Refigeration next turn.
1967AD
Regrigeration completes - Radio for Bombers next; Science back down to 80%
Jaipur: Battleship->Supermarket
Suopermarkets ordered at all Wealth cities -> knock Science down to 70% so we're still turning a profit.
1968AD
Mine Aluminium at Kolhapur - using it Stagnates the city, but it'd never get much bigger anyway.
1969AD
Kolhapur: Aquaduct->Factory
Lahore: Supermarket->Wealth
Aha, so happiness is why we're running 20% Culture! Thought about changing Representation to Sufferage, and looked to see if that would hurt happiness ... Yes! Back to 60/20/20.
1970AD
Hatty demands Biology; she's currently at +9 relations, and we'd need her for a vote win, so I say yes. She goes to +11.
Portland: Lighthouse->Granary
Karachi: Supermarket->Fighter
1971AD
Karachi: Fighter->Wealth
Jaipur: Supermarket->Coal Plant
Hyderabad: Observatory->Bank
1972AD
Liz, OPen Borders, Nope.
Dehli: Supermarket->Wealth
Bangalore: Supermarket->Wealth
Washington completes Apollo Program! (We still have 8turns to go) Tech-wise, he's up Plastics & Radio, but we have Refrigeration - which is needed for Genetics.
Back up to 70/20/10 and still at a profit. Radio in 4.
1973AD
AM: Supermarket->Wealth
We pop Aluminium near Lahore!
1974AD
Mansa wants Open Borders - Ha!
1975AD
Bombay: Supermarket->SAM Infantry(part completed)
Hatty's loseing ground at Alexandria, but I think we're suffering at Hastings:
and the Save:
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Roster
ChrTh
mjj55409
Dreylin -- Just Finished
Ucel -- UP
chriseay -- On Deck
scowler
ChrTh
mjj55409
Dreylin -- Just Finished
Ucel -- UP
chriseay -- On Deck
scowler
