Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[I_Dragon]

(although I'd love to liberate entire civilizations if they're dead and I'm controlling their core, instead of independents, but that's another issue).

Was just about to suggest this, would be great if it could be implemented

 

[oyh]

There are some points I'd like to share. I was playing on viceroy / normal.

Here is what went well

• The extent of Mongolian invasions was very realistic as they overran plenty civs in just a few rounds.
• Mongolian instability and collapse (1475 ad) also very nice.
• Ming resurrection triggering that collapse was historical.
• Achieving UHV was not too difficult neither too lopsided (my definition of viceroy...).
• Player has to make an interesting decision: where to put the 1 or 2 non Korean cities (out of the 4 that you have to found).
• Civ rebirth in general was very impressive (eg. Persia @1500ad, Byzantinum). I had only played RFC before (my first DoD game).

Here is what I disliked

• Korea should rather start with a confucian (not buddhist) missionary. This is both more historically correct and also for gameplay reasons (most of the time Korean's problem was Japan and not China - and Japan is Buddhist in the game).
• I would find it entertaining if Korea began without any missionary. As in history, it would have to look at opportunities how to get a share of China's ethical systems / religions. (For example in my game, I decided to take the Chinese city in LiaoDong from the beginning on in order to control a Buddhist city).
• Korea shouldn't start with two swordsmen as this is sufficient for taking over China's LiaoDong (=southern Mandchuria). Replace a swordsman by an archer and Korea has a more defensive stance (as in history).
• Mongolia should have gone directly into war with Korea after their spawn (1200ad). Otherwise it will be as in my game: All those Keshiks just didn't care to invade my 4 cities. In history, the Mongol's first target were the Manchurian Jin and, at the end of the 13th century, the Yuan also included (at least) northern Korea. So one of the player's key challenges should be to resist the Mongols (and be more successful than the Chinese in doing that). Also from a gameplay perspective, this would make sense: You may not concentrate on building caravels but you have first to get all those pikemen out.

But in conclusion, I have to the stress that this is a very good modmod. Exactly what I was looking for after having seen that Rhye hasn't taken RFC further since mid 2010.

 

[Leoreth]

Welcome to the board, I'm honored that you've made your first post here. And thanks for the feedback

On the Korean religion, historically, they started out as mainly Buddhist, with Chinese influence resulting in Confucianism taking over. This is often what happens, because you're much closer to the Confucian holy city than to the Buddhist one, so Confucianism spreads much faster, which easily outweights the initial Buddhist missionary (and Wang Kon's favoured religion is Confucianism). This usually results in a more varied religion, because I've already tried to starting missionary and that almost guaranteed Confucian Korea.

Good point about the starting military though.

 

[oyh]

I've just edited my post to include the proposal Mongolian auto-war with Korea after its spawn. (details see above)

And thanks to Leoreth for bringing Rhye's work to the next level.

 

[Leoreth]

I've had that in the beginning (seems like the obvious thing to do), but usually this tended to divert Mongol forces that were necessary to conquer China. I haven't tried this after I buffed the Mongols, though.

 

[oyh]

There are two further points that I forgot to mention:

• If the conquistador event is triggered for the player, the diplomacy screen (with that American civ) provides only one option "There shall be peace...". However, the war between the civs is still triggered (as desired by DoC). So the diplo screen option is probably just a bug.
• The Mongol civ tried to gift its cities away (from 1300ad on - eg. I got HangZhou by this means). Mongol collapse could occur more quickly if such Mongol gifts (at least by the AI) were avoided.

 

[civ_king]

Playing as Arabia when I gifted my vassal Spain Astronomy in 1300 I had an "Error: colonial target list empty" message, also I had previously gifted them a boat load of caravels and when they met the New World civs there was no conquerors event.

 

[Leoreth]

Ah, I've added that message precisely to see what's wrong with Spain. Seems now I know.

 

[civ_king]

And what was wrong?

 

[Leoreth]

The colonial target list was empty

 

[civ_king]

What exactly was astronomy supposed to trigger?

 

[Leoreth]

The Asian conquerors for Spain (and Portugal).

 

[BenZL43]

Khmer Empire

Based on my observation,
Jungle add +0.25 sickness to the nearest tile
Since Khmer is surrounded by Jungles,
No wonder that the city health rarely positive, even with Baray there..

In reality, Here in southern Asia,
Jungles actually acts like the European Forests..
People feed from there.. They grew medicinal herbs and dietary..
Jungles resources is beneficial and substantial for our life

My proposal for a new Khmer UP is : Jungle acts like Forest

Which means it is cross-able by land units, can built improvement there, and don't give health penalty..

And Ironically, I start on Emperor Mode, with 1 UHV done from the beginning.
Hinduism is at 22% and Buddhism is at 15%, which give total to 37%..

My proposal for a new Khmer 3rd UHV is either :

• Convert x neighbour to Buddhism
• Have x trade routes with cities that have either Hinduism or Buddhism or both
• Spread x number of Buddhism and Hinduism missionary to other foreign cities

And how about making Khmer spawn even earlier at 550AD (The fall of Funan) at Oc Eo / Kauthara (1 tile south current starting location), and add 1 fish beside it so they won't go to Ha Noi to make their work boat useful..

In around 802AD, the marsh on Angkor tile is coded to gone so Angkor can be settled.. If possible, please code that if Khmer own Angkor, it become the capital city..

Bug
My war elephant can't cross the jungle?
A text bug in Maya's UHV : Found calender in 600AD (Turn 186, IIRC)
I am trapped between China and Japan, but I can't contact China (pictures)

CONGRATULATION!
AI ROME successfully replicate the Trajan Roman Empire

 

[BenZL43]

Embassy and Foreign Culture

This is based on my experience recently...
It's October.
As usual, the GoetheHaus annually hold the Oktoberfest Festival..
But which is unusual this year, almost all mall in Jakarta give voucher to redeem free beer and brawust sausages too for aged 21+ Customer that shops to certain amount..

I think that Embassy should bring their culture... Temple and Church also..
Like for example, in my Catholic church, we are still using Latin hymn for some occasions like Easter and Advent, which is not from our culture but Roman..
My Moslem friends read al-Quran which is written in Arabic..
My Sikh friends pray with Sanskrit song.. (Culture sources : Hindi)

And as Nationalism arise, I think that there should be a little chance each turn that the foreign culture converted to the local culture..
The example is when I was at mall this morning, I found that they don't only offer German Beer and Sausages but also the local one which mean there's now assimilation of culture, converting foreign German oktoberfest culture to Indonesian local culture..

P.S Just curious, when is actually Oktoberfest being held there?

 

[Linkman226]

That Roman Empire is very impressive.

 

[AOS9001]

CONGRATULATION!
AI ROME successfully replicate the Trajan Roman Empire

Impossible! That's too good to be true!

A note on the Asian conquerers event: I'm under the belief that the human should get to the option with astronomy too, economics comes too late. The Portuguese were in Musqat, Cochin, Malaca, and Cantao by 1540 at latest, and the Spanish where in the Philippines by the 1580s at latest. Economics, as I have said before, simply doesn't come until the mid 1600s, long after these things happened in the real world.

 

[jammerculture]

It still amazes me that firaxis was able to create a game that guys like leoreth and Ryhe can tinker with to create a historical simulator.

Without it being scripted

Just a random sequence of events that can some times create actual historic worlds.

I highly doubt there will ever be a game this cool ever again

And I love that these things happen rarely and randomly, as in our reality this is how things played out but subtle changes could have made a whole new world, like that last episode of community...

 

[Leoreth]

Khmer Empire

Based on my observation,
Jungle add +0.25 sickness to the nearest tile
Since Khmer is surrounded by Jungles,
No wonder that the city health rarely positive, even with Baray there..

In reality, Here in southern Asia,
Jungles actually acts like the European Forests..
People feed from there.. They grew medicinal herbs and dietary..
Jungles resources is beneficial and substantial for our life

My proposal for a new Khmer UP is : Jungle acts like Forest.

Which means it is cross-able by land units, can built improvement there, and don't give health penalty.

I understand where you're coming from, but dealing with the jungle problems is part of the Khmer challenge.

And Ironically, I start on Emperor Mode, with 1 UHV done from the beginning.
Hinduism is at 22% and Buddhism is at 15%, which give total to 37%..

My proposal for a new Khmer 3rd UHV is either :

• Convert x neighbour to Buddhism
• Have x trade routes with cities that have either Hinduism or Buddhism or both
• Spread x number of Buddhism and Hinduism missionary to other foreign cities

Hah, haven't tested that goal yet. I consider your alternatives as replacements.

And how about making Khmer spawn even earlier at 550AD (The fall of Funan) at Oc Eo / Kauthara (1 tile south current starting location), and add 1 fish beside it so they won't go to Ha Noi to make their work boat useful..

In around 802AD, the marsh on Angkor tile is coded to gone so Angkor can be settled.. If possible, please code that if Khmer own Angkor, it become the capital city..

I doubt the AI would found cities so close, and justifiably so.

Bug
My war elephant can't cross the jungle?
A text bug in Maya's UHV : Found calender in 600AD (Turn 186, IIRC)
I am trapped between China and Japan, but I can't contact China (pictures)

- Only your one war elephant?
- What's your problem with that?
- not even after you move a unit along their border? Otherwise, save?

CONGRATULATION!
AI ROME successfully replicate the Trajan Roman Empire

This ... is just ... I'm completely amazed.

Embassy and Foreign Culture

This is based on my experience recently...
It's October.
As usual, the GoetheHaus annually hold the Oktoberfest Festival..
But which is unusual this year, almost all mall in Jakarta give voucher to redeem free beer and brawust sausages too for aged 21+ Customer that shops to certain amount..

I think that Embassy should bring their culture... Temple and Church also..
Like for example, in my Catholic church, we are still using Latin hymn for some occasions like Easter and Advent, which is not from our culture but Roman..
My Moslem friends read al-Quran which is written in Arabic..
My Sikh friends pray with Sanskrit song.. (Culture sources : Hindi)

And as Nationalism arise, I think that there should be a little chance each turn that the foreign culture converted to the local culture..
The example is when I was at mall this morning, I found that they don't only offer German Beer and Sausages but also the local one which mean there's now assimilation of culture, converting foreign German oktoberfest culture to Indonesian local culture..

That would be nice to have, but would it actually impact the game?

P.S Just curious, when is actually Oktoberfest being held there?

Pff, I live in northern Germany so I don't have much to do with all that Oktoberfest jazz (actually I'm always a little aggravated that it's only the Bavarians who represent us abroad ). All I can say is that the Oktoberfest usually starts in September, counterintuitively, and only its last days are in October.

Impossible! That's too good to be true!

A note on the Asian conquerers event: I'm under the belief that the human should get to the option with astronomy too, economics comes too late. The Portuguese were in Musqat, Cochin, Malaca, and Cantao by 1540 at latest, and the Spanish where in the Philippines by the 1580s at latest. Economics, as I have said before, simply doesn't come until the mid 1600s, long after these things happened in the real world.

I was going to give them a trading company UB for this reason.

Also, I've eliminated the "disappeared Terracotta Army" bug.

 

[AOS9001]

I was going to give them a trading company UB for this reason.

Works for me.

 

[jammerculture]

ben, do you still have a save for that roman empire? I would be interested in seeing how that came to be