Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Yeah, I forgot Corea.

Italy isn't really a factor because in many of my games,
I always end up occupying the Italian peninsula myself.

I haven't been able to get strong civs like Spain or China,
because they almost always get snatched up by someone else
who is usually weaker than me and also someone who they like less.
(Khanate of Dumdadu is cropping up in my games with frequency)

 

[Barbuesque]

I don't agree with the change in the Mali peace vassaling routine. As one of the weakest civs, it's perfectly logical to me that they should seek a protector. With their barbarian issues and sub par land, they really should be easier to peace vassal compared to now.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

There also seems to be other shady stuff going on pertaining to vassals.
In my recent Phoenicia game, I hit up Maya, and they had no techs on the trade table.
I vassalize them and suddenly, Engineering is available.

WTH?

If it were available in the first place, and they didn't want to trade it to me,
shouldn't it have been listed on the table in red text anyway?
I have a strong hunch that a lot of these changes are coming from K-Mod;
only REALLY, REALLY backwards civs seem to offer vassalization and later
when they become advanced or have just 1 tech you need, they refuse to trade it to you at all costs.

 

[Leoreth]

I have a strong hunch that a lot of these changes are coming from K-Mod;

 

[AdrienIer]

Perhaps I'm wrong but... You haven't started merging the K-mod have you ?

 

[Leoreth]

No, that's why I'm confused.

 

[Hippo8085]

Yes, tech trading is almost impossible to get a real deal that isn't something like 1000 research points for 100, even if its the vassal.

Could it have something to do with the No Tech Brokering option on the maps?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

If it's not K-Mod though, why are the AIs usually so reluctant and hold-offish about vassalization?
Especially when they're at the brink of death and my war successes are good/theirs are bad?
Many of them would rather die than vassalize/capitulate, it seems.

 

[NerfCothons]

If it's not K-Mod though, why are the AIs usually so reluctant and hold-offish about vassalization?
Especially when they're at the brink of death and my war successes are good/theirs are bad?
Many of them would rather die than vassalize/capitulate, it seems.

In the past vassalization was always thwarted by the fact that you might be at war with independent leader 1 or 2 (or the natives, or some distant civilization you may have lost contact with) and your potential vassal might be at peace or visc versa. I remember reading something that suggested that issue was resolved but I don't know that for sure.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

For capitulations:
War successes are a big factor.
You can take no cities, and kill all their troops (usually with nukes) and capitulate AIs.
If you're at war with another civ or multiple civs, as is the case in RFC/DoC,
it severely hinders your ability to capitulate your target.

For peace vassaling:
They have to like you (last night, unbelievably, I was able to vassalize Thailand because they were Friendly, I guess that's the requirement).
Having Education helps lower the threshold for civs to peace vassal
Astronomy is this modmod's specific requirement for you to vassalize civs "outside your sphere"
They have to feel threatened.
They have to be losing a war, and want help.

^That's something that feels odd to me.
In my recent Phoenicia game, Russia was losing badly against the Mongols.
I had Astronomy and sufficient power to vassalize them, I even was at Pleased with them.
But they off and vassalize to the Vikings instead.

Now, flash forward several hundred years. France seeks my help.
I suddenly enter war with Great Britain, Holy Rome & Mexico.
I check France's cities and they don't seem to have lost any units at all.

Compare the disparity between those two scenarios.

 

[BenZL43]

Eh.. were not there's CNM for Phoenicia at Cyprus as "Kition" ? Why do they use a generic name "Utica" now?

 

[Civciv5]

Why is Crete 2 tiles and Cyprus 1 tile while Cyprus is larger then Crete in the real world?

 

[Hippo8085]

Because Rhye originally made an island that could pass as either that was the 2 island Crete, Cyprus was a later addition. Also: Enlarged Europe. Crete is part, Cyprus is not.

 

[Leoreth]

Eh.. were not there's CNM for Phoenicia at Cyprus as "Kition" ? Why do they use a generic name "Utica" now?

That surprised me as well.

 

[MontcalmXVI]

Hey, my comment earlier that may have been deleted from misinterpretation..
Perhaps Poland's color should be darkened? It's a hot pink right now and really stands out in Europe, while the red on the Polish flag is also a bit darker. And Norway's purpilish pink also is a little femmy for the tough and strong Vikings.

 

[Hippo8085]

Distinguish from Russia.

What do you propose for Vikings? Most of us are fine with and some like the color.

 

[MontcalmXVI]

I know it distinguishes, but it's bloody pink for Poland! Poland isn't a pink country, China was okay for pink. It's celestial over there. Khmer and the Mughals have shades of green next to them, why shouldn't Poland and Russia have shades of red? Just the difference between Maroon and Brick red is good.

As for the Vikings, I suggest a calm Grainy color. Like #F5DEB3. It's kind of desolate, but gives images of the farmlands. It kind of makes you want to get out and attack someone else. Or maybe a similiar color to the Prussians, with a slight difference going back to the Mughal and Khmer example. Even the old color would be good if nothing else.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

I'm going to say with absolute certainty that nobody sees this color and assumes that the entire Polish people is a giant Pride party, so maybe stop projecting your insecurities about your masculinity onto the Poles and Vikings and learn to enjoy the whole spectrum. Or maybe I'm the wrong one and all the civs should be nice manly greys and browns. Except for the Chinese, obviously, they're all sorts of "celestial," if you know what I mean. Wouldn't that be lovely?

 

[fabe]

Nobody has a problem with Poland's colour despite you, Monty, I myself really like it, because it gives such a sharp, nice contrast to the surrounding Civs. But it's kind of a really nice cliché-like attitude considering you are from the United States, where there are more states allowing first grade cousins-marriage than states allowing homosexual marriage

But, really, no offense, Monty!

 

[NerfCothons]

I know it distinguishes, but it's bloody pink for Poland! Poland isn't a pink country, China was okay for pink. It's celestial over there. Khmer and the Mughals have shades of green next to them, why shouldn't Poland and Russia have shades of red? Just the difference between Maroon and Brick red is good.

As for the Vikings, I suggest a calm Grainy color. Like #F5DEB3. It's kind of desolate, but gives images of the farmlands. It kind of makes you want to get out and attack someone else. Or maybe a similiar color to the Prussians, with a slight difference going back to the Mughal and Khmer example. Even the old color would be good if nothing else.

Naturally the solution is to have two countries that are guaranteed to share borders have the same color... *facepalm*

Dammit, why are you embarrassing America in an international forum?