Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[Leoreth]

Yeah, there needs to be a rebalancing of some sort.

 

[NerfCothons]

Can we change the Arabian UHV to not demand the player conquer the Maghreb and Iberia? It hardly feels right given the addition of the Moors.

 

[Hippo8085]

Or vassalize. Or collapse. But yeah, I was also thinking about this. It goes along the same lines as Spain vs. France over Barcelona, no war with brothers in the Faith.

I am glad to see the past few tries at Spain that Barcelona stayed independent. I am off to a roaring start due to a timely plague. Bring smallpox to America, bring Smallpox to Europe

 

[Caesar Augustus]

I just had a Tamil game where India discovered Liberalism in 950 AD, apparently using it for Gunpowder. I think the addition of the Tamils, and hence less barb pressure, might have something to do with it. Or maybe it was just a fluke. Thought you should know.

 

[StarDoor]

The situation with Barcelona messes up the human player no matter what. If you're Spain, the Moors or France could be in control of it and you don't flip it. If you're France or the Moors, you can't take it over because Spain will flip it!

 

[Hippo8085]

I am perfectly fine with the Moors being in control of it as Spain. The only problem I have is going into an otherwise stupid war with France to recover it.
As to the second point: patience .

 

[DC123456789]

I have one issue with the Roman stability map. Why do they have Mesopotamia as "stable" (well, contseted, but that doesn't matter), which they occupied for two years, while much of Spain, France, and England are "unstable", which was under their control for 400 years and still remains heavily influenced by Roman culture. I know this was how it was in the original RFC, but still...

 

[Hippo8085]

AI is sort of forced to take over Mesopotamia, which would prematurely collapse them if it were unstable. As for Spain, England, and France, enough parts are stable to fulfill the UHV, so I am not complaining that more of it should be unstable. After all, most of it is orange and green until the European civs come along.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I thought you should know, France is severely messed up in the latest commit.
They spawn as Free France, as well, which shouldn't really happen.
1000 AD, Monarch/Normal, 3000BC.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Leoreth, after testing the Moors for about eight games,
I'd like to give you some of my input on the balancing of the 1st & 3rd UHVs.

Either or is perfectly doable, but together, it's impossible.
To achieve the 1st one, the threshold to beat are the Chinese & Tamil cities,
which are normally are about size 12-14.
Which means size 15 is requisite in order to beat them and to get size 15 on 1000 AD on Normal speed means running no specialists.
(You are not rewarded for having a population tie, which I believe is fair enough)

If I run 0 specialists right out the gate until after 1000 AD and the 1st UHV check,
that means that I can't generate the requisite amount of GPs needed for the 3rd UHV.

I've only been able to get 3 tops, and I'm guessing I can get 4 at the most.

It is currently not balanced correctly.
I would say reduce the GP requirement from the 3rd UHV from 5 to 4,
and everything should be alright.

EDIT: I'll try another couple of games to confirm my suspicions, but these are my findings thus far.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

^ Yeah I think Leoreth might have over-nerfed their GP rate a little bit.

Before the nerf I ended up with 7 GPs, but 3 (or 4? Can't remember exactly) of them came after 1200 with Leaning Tower + Red Fort. I did build an Academy in Cordoba earlier though.

 

[J. pride]

Leoreth, after testing the Moors for about eight games,
I'd like to give you some of my input on the balancing of the 1st & 3rd UHVs.

Either or is perfectly doable, but together, it's impossible.
To achieve the 1st one, the threshold to beat are the Chinese & Tamil cities,
which are normally are about size 12-14.
Which means size 15 is requisite in order to beat them and to get size 15 on 1000 AD on Normal speed means running no specialists.
(You are not rewarded for having a population tie, which I believe is fair enough)

If I run 0 specialists right out the gate until after 1000 AD and the 1st UHV check,
that means that I can't generate the requisite amount of GPs needed for the 3rd UHV.

I've only been able to get 3 tops, and I'm guessing I can get 4 at the most.

It is currently not balanced correctly.
I would say reduce the GP requirement from the 3rd UHV from 5 to 4,
and everything should be alright.

EDIT: I'll try another couple of games to confirm

You haven't tried 600 ad Scenario?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

It's highly start dependent. I have not tried 600 AD.

If there is an indie city/barb city in Spain before your spawn,
you may as well reroll the map.

If you don't get at least two cities in the Maghreb before your spawn, again, reroll.
This is because you can't afford to waste time churning out another Settler because you have to do
Trireme -> Work Boat -> Noria -> Barracks -> Knight spam, or else Mali is out of reach.

I've learned so far that you HAVE to get The Mezquita online ASAP,
and even then, you'll still only make 3-4 GPs max feasibly.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Okay. I'm done with my test runs. I'm certain it's impossible now.
Leoreth, please change back the old Moor GP rate.
7 GPs on Epic = 4/5 on Normal.
As of now, even rushing Mezquita and running full specialists at all times,
disregarding the first UHV, it is impossible to get 5 GPs in time.

And would it be too much to ask if the Moors received 1 extra Trireme on spawn?
Some games, my Trireme repels all the barb ships, others, they die constantly
and replacing them is just asinine.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

And would it be too much to ask if the Moors received 1 extra Trireme on spawn?
Some games, my Trireme repels all the barb ships, others, they die constantly
and replacing them is just asinine.

All Naval units should be cheaper to build IMO. Currently they are all too expensive for too little utility. Except perhaps the East Indiaman. That is some good ship.

 

[J. pride]

It's highly start dependent. I have not tried 600 AD.

I would suggest you do so because the situation is a little better then. You can get the first UHV with a population of 11-13 even 10 if you are lucky. In this scenario, all you need to do is raze Barcelona, settle 1 W 2 S (out of spanish spawn) and after the Spanish spawn settle Barcelona (It makes both of the cities really crappy but the fact of the matter is it would have took 200 years to make the city into something valuable anyways and by then you are almost done. In the meantime settle Oran and Tunis. Build barracks in Marrakesh and whip out 3 knights, with that hire 2-3 war elephant mercenaries and then attack Mali.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

The biggest problem is that I've narrowed it down to just the GP spawn rate.
59 Turns is not enough time to generate 5 GPs.
That's all it is, plain and simple.

 

[Leoreth]

I'd rather reduce the requirement to 4 GPs instead of increasing the GP rate again. Their rate is now more in line (but still higher) than the contemporary European civs which is fairer in my opinion. Otherwise they will become too powerful later on, or in case you decide not to follow the UHV goals.

 

[Daffy]

Noticed 2 odd things in the 'current' SVN version (July 24th, presumably revision 393).

Leaning Tower tooltip:

Spoiler :

And I can also Draft 1 unit per turn since I built the Brandenburg Gate.(Well not really sure about that, but 10 turns previous I couldn't draft and I just happened to first notice it the turn the Wonder was finished)

I just overwrote the previous SVN version with the new files I downloaded, should I delete the entire mod first?

I'm thinking I might have messed it up on my end

 

[Hippo8085]

A lot of this makes me think that there should be naval mercenaries.

However, I don't know if that is possible with the arrive in capital mechanic.