Current (SVN) development discussion thread

Thinking about combat, some civic should reduce the instability from combat losses.

I think you mean this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Story_of_Ah_Q

We can call the civic "Spiritual Victory"


I really don't think it should be any more than a random event, like Leoreth said, Shia is only majority in Iran and area's of other countries under heavy Persian influence.

The actual differences between Shia and Sunni are quite superficial compared to between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, at least it seems this way to me. Though I think Islam has always been far more of a political-ideology/regressive legal-code than a genuine religion, so I'm really not the person to ask.
I'd much rather see inclusions of low-spread-rate minor Indian-religions founded on building-completion almost exclusively Persian sect of a religion that was forced on them anyways.
@Pavel: I have to agree with Lawrie. What you said was quite provocative.
A couple of other posts I've seen you make are quite hostile/aggressive towards Islam in general.
I don't know if you've looked a couple pages back to witness the whole homophobia + racism debacle
and the dogpile of the person who initiated it, but intolerance is (ironically) not tolerated here.
If you want to make statements like that, you should visit the Off-Topic subforum.
 
hi just wanted to say that the new slavery concept is genius(may be a bit OP with city states). also i havent had any crashes for a while now
 
Can anyone enlighten me as to how to use slaves as a non-African empire, such as America?
 
Settle a city in Sub-saharan Africa or have an African civ give them to you. America you have to flip them, but the benefits should already be there if the AI correctly used slaves.
 
Settle a city in Sub-saharan Africa or have an African civ give them to you. America you have to flip them, but the benefits should already be there if the AI correctly used slaves.

How do you get one to give them to you?
 
A bit? It is as OP as %$(& with City States/Representation/Sistine Chapel.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed :lol: Size 55 Tampico, and if Leoreth is nice enough to fix the Autocracy needed for enslaving bug, I'll try to get Los Angeles to an immense size as the Portuguese.

Lubyanka should be noted too.

But don't forget that this City-States - Representation combo greatly punishes any expansion.
 
Does it mean that slaves also get the +1:food: from city states ? That's insane !
But I have to agree, since forced labor probably has some negative penalty after you get into some era, forced labor/representation/city states for a late game huge empire is very likely going to collapse you after some time.
 
I've recently read in Novator's LH gallery thread that the Firaxis Tokugawa was originally meant to be Oda Nobunaga and looking at paintings of them, that makes a lot of sense.

Now considering reports that Japan did a lot better when I disabled leaderhead switches and Kammu was in charge longer, how about if I rename Tokugawa to Oda and make his personality less of an idiot? Toku is easily the worst AI in the whole game.
 
I've recently read in Novator's LH gallery thread that the Firaxis Tokugawa was originally meant to be Oda Nobunaga and looking at paintings of them, that makes a lot of sense.

Now considering reports that Japan did a lot better when I disabled leaderhead switches and Kammu was in charge longer, how about if I rename Tokugawa to Oda and make his personality less of an idiot? Toku is easily the worst AI in the whole game.

Tokugawa's AI is mentally handicapped, he wont OB at Pleased because he doesn't like you enough.
 
I've recently read in Novator's LH gallery thread that the Firaxis Tokugawa was originally meant to be Oda Nobunaga and looking at paintings of them, that makes a lot of sense.

Now considering reports that Japan did a lot better when I disabled leaderhead switches and Kammu was in charge longer, how about if I rename Tokugawa to Oda and make his personality less of an idiot? Toku is easily the worst AI in the whole game.
Yes,please do that!
 
Okay, the stability advisor screen is done. I tried my best to have everything make sense, but you still can't always expect the numbers in the categories to add up to your total stability, even though it should be a lot closer now. And at least you should always be able to identify your greatest stability problems.

Spoiler :
attachment.php


I've also changed the economic stability code so that after a golden age is over, your economic growth is determined by comparing the current situation to how it's been before the GA started. This should avoid situations where golden ages become disadvantageous stability-wise.

Commit follows soon. I should mention that this will make current savegames unusable, so don't update until you have finished your current game.
 
Great work, although it's a pity it makes savegames obsolete (I've three ongoing games atm, all of which require the fix for Autocracyslavery).

What does the 'trade' category refer to? If you export more than you import, will you get a stability hit?
 
Ive posted this in suggestions Leoreth too, and will carry on any discussion there so not to distract from the SVN discussions! Thanks again though - and if you do think this might be interesting to implement, be happy to help with graphics/icons etc.

Shi'ism - Sunni schism

Shi'ism emerges in about 632AD following Muhammads death in 632.

The schism was over who should rule the Muslim Community.

Sunnis - Emerged from those factions, who sought an elected represenative chosen by chiefs and powerplayers among the Muslim community. This lead to a caste of political/theological leadership inspired by the 'companions' who accompanied Muhammad. They did not associate (Ali) the son of Muhammad (and the subject of Shia schism) as the rightful heir to their religious leadership, nor do they associate divine qualities to the descendents of Muhammad.

Shia - Emerged from those who saw direct descendents of Muhammad, whom they percieved as divine, (arguably akin to saints) and who believed the Muhammads son Ali as the rightful heir to their religion.

So the difference is both political and theological.


Historically the distinct differentiation of Shia and Sunnis does not significantly occur (in any geo-political context) until the emergence of the first Shia states around 900. Note this is some 200+ years after the discovery of Islam.

During this period onto 1171 we have several major Shia states, these include the Fatimad Caliphate (Egypt/Most of North Africa) and the Buyid Dynasty.

It should be noted that one of the greatest contributions to the collapse of that huge Fatimad empire, was the abandonment of Shi'ism (and the failture to impose that upon them) in the face of resurgent Sunnism among the Berbers (comprising their main military cadres.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Shi'a_Islam

So during early middle ages it was Shism that ruled dominant among the ruling classes of the greatest Muslim Empires (only to switch to Sunnism) before splitting once more back and forth between rival states and houses. This lead to inter-state conflict between Muslim states with of course denomination (being a contributing cause.)

No different really to the conflicts that arose between the Christian nations during the reformation periods.

Today that conflict still plays out, as anyone knows, Saudi Arabia (the bastion of Sunnism) is itself not a big fan of Iran... the bastian of Shi'ism.) With some 250 million Shia's in the world today... it seems a religion of enough contribution to conflict, culture and relevance today... to deserve inclusion ingame...

Gameplay Suggestions

The split between Sunni and Shia does not have to be instant. The political manifestation of the schism does not occur for some two hundred years after its foundation.

I would suggest for example

*event* Religious Change Event - Player accepts or rejects switching state religion to Shia, regardless of which Shi'ism will spread among some cities. (Shi'ism forms a significant minority in almost all Muslim countries even today.)


- Ideally this would see Islam becoming Sunnism, however I would argue (for simplicity) that islam could simply be renamed Sunnism, with Shia emerging later through the event. Obviously in a perfect world (of abusing Leoreths time) Islam could be replaced by Sunnism or Shia depending on the choice chosen.

Alternatives? This is the tough part? See the schism that occured here resulted in nations and ruling houses going to war - it was a geo-political event. Not something that can be reflected within the context of a unified abstract religion of 'Islam' ingame. So something that does not split Islam (and leads to nations sharing that religion falling foul of one anothers choices) may not properly reflect something that well... historically should!

For those of us in the West, with a european-centric perception of history and culture, the Sunni's and Shia's (and the reasoning for the schism) is I think difficult to understand. Especially if we force those shapes through the holes of our own understanding of Christian schism. At face value, its theological and political differences are abstract (and we lump all Muslims into well... one group.)

But I dont think we should or can, without ignoring one of the greatest untold conflicts that arose between the peoples of Noth Africa and the Middle East, with repercussions we feel right now... *hint Saudi Arabia vs Iran*
 
Does anyone else get this when loading the mod with the recent SVNs ?

250o55u.png
 
Uhm you made me change my mind about that...I support some kind of representation.
If not a brand new religion (may be too much), there could be a random event if you are an islamic civilization that says something like "A growing part of your population is converting to shia islam (so not bound to a specific year) what should we do?" or upon conversion to islam (only the first time?) you could be asked what to choose etc etc...

@AdrienIer: DoC is english only, you have to change the language ;)
 
I think adding it as a religion presents an additional conflict point for the islamic civilisations in the game - thus if a game results in a vastly Islamic world (as it sometimes does!) then the implementation of that schism as an additional religion would provide an interesting extra cassus belli (i think anyway.) I mean in the end this is Leoreths vision so im suggesting this, but i dont mean to be pressurising!!!

An example - the Fatimads, retained a Shia empire of considerable size.
Fatimids_Empire_909_-_1171_%28AD%29.PNG


Also - for an interesting perspective of Shia religious cultural influences from a unique perspective. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0006_0_06300.html
 
This discussion is definitely interesting, just don't expect me to tackle this aspect soon because there are many other things I've planned already.
 
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