Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[citis]

Wow! Polynesia is in game! I will have to try it as soon as I find some libre time. Good!

 

[ales_]

I wonder why nobody has asked this question: is it human only?
Also, is it available in the 600 AD scenario?

 

[soul-breathing]

Leo, there's a bug with Polynesia.

Monarch, epic, I settle Marquesas and Easter Island in about 7XX ad, and no "Goal Accomplished" in victory screen. Then I failed settle all 4 islands by 1000 ad(I finished it in 1080 ad), and also no "Goal Failed", only"Not yet". Meanwhile I build Moai Statues by 1200 ad, and there's "Goal Accomplished" as normal.

Also I suggest to add "Turn XXX" in victory screen, because it's possible for human player without Calender even in 1200 ad. Calender is not necessary for Polynesia's UHV

 

[Chep]

I wonder why nobody has asked this question: is it human only?
Also, is it available in the 600 AD scenario?

why ask when we can play?^^
They are not present in the 600AD-scenario, too lazy right now to roll up a roman or so start to see if they're human only, sorry

Leo, there's a bug with Polynesia.

that one is already in the Bug-thread (where you should try to post bugs, ideally with a savegame), thanks anyway

 

[youtien]

with 3 tiny core cities that share a grand total of 2 tiles that produce >2 food^^ yeah
thats a Domination Victory I'd like to see.

Have you played any lategame-civs recently? I had a lot of trouble with Congresses when playing as Prussia and wondered if you encountered that one as well

I'm working on my thesis now, and lategame lags too much for my computer. I'll return to DoC several months later.

 

[Chep]

I know the feeling, rarely try them myself for that very reason.

Anyway, when Leoreth fixes the UHV-check for Polynesia w see who can win the Polynesian puzzle the fastest

GL with your thesis

and... @ales: Yes, Polynesia is only for the human player,

if you chose any civ starting after them they wont be on the map (havent tried if you get the option to switch if you start with an earlier civ)

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

and... @ales: Yes, Polynesia is only for the human player,

if you chose any civ starting after them they wont be on the map (havent tried if you get the option to switch if you start with an earlier civ)

AI Polynesia can be enabled in xml just like Congo, Poland, Tibet, etc. can be disabled.

Also it seems that AI Polynesia doesn't settle anything, is that intended?

 

[BenZL43]

Leoreth, sugar cane thrives in Viti Levu's western side; and Polynesian knew Sugar.

Viti Levu
The eastern side of the island experiences heavy rainfall, while the western side is noticeably drier. Accordingly, sugar cane production thrives in the west, while a dairy industry is being built in the east.

Then also from this site:

How Sugar is Made - The History
It is thought that cane sugar was first used by man in Polynesia from where it spread to India. In 510 BC the Emperor Darius of what was then Persia invaded India where he found "the reed which gives honey without bees". The secret of cane sugar, as with many other of man's discoveries, was kept a closely guarded secret whilst the finished product was exported for a rich profit.

 

[Leoreth]

First feedback concerning Polynesia:

- are the UHV-islands "tagged" ingame?
- there are no "turn"-infos on my UHV-goals. Since I doubt that I will research Calendar, it would be really, really cool to get the goals displayed like "settle X by 800 AD (Turn XYZ)
- ending the UHV-game with the construction of the wonder seems a bit anticlimactic. You build this cool thing, but then you never get to use its bonus.

- they are, I know it's not ideal because you haven't discovered them yet and need to know where to look. I think a quick Ctrl+Z on start is permitted in this case
- yeah I forgot to set the years for the UHV goals in the appropriate constant, coming soon.
- I know, but the difficulty of these tasks kind of requires that order of goals. If you have a suggestion for a later goal I'm all ears, maybe I can merge the first two into one then (I want to keep the two deadlines though, because some just can't be reached by 1000 AD - at least I couldn't - while delaying the deadline for all of them would take out some of the challenge)

- You missed a spot, I think:

Spoiler :

by turn 100 (so a mere 25 turns after my spawn) I am already exploring the Indonesian islands with my new-built waka.

Will go back to the start now and play a game without this "loophole".
My recommendation would be to fill this tile with Jungle that disappears in 600AD (by then the player can probably reach New Zealand and no other civ will be hindered by the change)

Oh, you disembarked your settler on the jungle at the northern coast and then moved there through the marsh? That's enough cheese to build a new moon I guess I'll move the capes.

Okay, first of all, this is great. I've already played a couple of games as them, it's really fun expanding out over the Pacific reaching all the islands. Going to see how fast I can do the UHV.
Second, the UU is genius, I love that it can build fishing boats.

That wasn't part of the plan at first, but during my first playtests I realized that most of what you're asked to do can be done with your starting Waka plus maybe an additional one, and never really building your UU wasn't really fun. And it seemed appropriate that a ship that carries settlers to new islands would "expire" afterwards while they use it for constructing their infrastructure.

Third, I'm sure they'll be some interesting interaction if people let their Polynesian games roll into the colonization era.
All in all I'm just happy Both new civs have been a lot of fun thus far.

Great! I still want to give Canada a little attention though.

Edit: I did have one question, are the Moai statues supposed to give all sea improvements for the civ +2 production, or just those the city works? I built it in Rapa Nui which ended up being pretty silly since it doesn't have any sea resources :/

Nope, it should work for all of them.

Wait. So there is actually a penalty for cultural expansion to ocean tiles? (Except for Polynesia)

It was a bit hard to word this UP because it actually affects two things:
- Ocean tiles usually have a base cost of culture required to cover them (I think it's 10). For Polynesia it is 0. Of course they still don't get them immediately because modifiers such as distance to city still apply.
- For other civilizations, borders can only expand over water in the city radius. Polynesia can cover the entire third ring as well.

The new civ is interesting but dull. You just build and explore your limited area, the only way out is via New Guinea and Indonesia like Chep displayed. Aw I really want another uber game but all I can do is art.

So the only possible old-fashioned conquer strategy is settle Havaiti, build another waka, then settle Manila, then make your way toward the world.

"Interesting but dull" sounds funny, but it kind of was the mission statement for this civ! I guess 1.13 should be called the version of peaceful civilizations because I wanted to do another game that does not rely on warfare and imperialism. Which I think worked well, because Polynesia does that and still is very different from Canada.

The whole idea was to do something different and provide another UHV puzzle type of game. I think there are enough civs in the game to conquer the world with, although I would be curious to see if you can do so with Polynesia as well

(Polynesia is also kind of OP if you manage to get hold of some decent land. They might have the worst tech modifier in the game, but get by far the cheapest buildings and have the lowest city distance maintenance besides England.)

I wonder why nobody has asked this question: is it human only?
Also, is it available in the 600 AD scenario?

The standard setting has them disabled, but you can turn them on as an AI civ. Don't expect them to do much though (see below).

And no, it's only available in 3000 BC.

Leo, there's a bug with Polynesia.

Monarch, epic, I settle Marquesas and Easter Island in about 7XX ad, and no "Goal Accomplished" in victory screen. Then I failed settle all 4 islands by 1000 ad(I finished it in 1080 ad), and also no "Goal Failed", only"Not yet". Meanwhile I build Moai Statues by 1200 ad, and there's "Goal Accomplished" as normal.

Also I suggest to add "Turn XXX" in victory screen, because it's possible for human player without Calender even in 1200 ad. Calender is not necessary for Polynesia's UHV

Turns after the goals will be added soon, and I am aware of the UHV check problem.

Also it seems that AI Polynesia doesn't settle anything, is that intended?

Not even with their starting settler on Tonga?

In general, there is a reason that Polynesia is disabled as a standard setting. As you know, the AI is bad at naval transport and Polynesia is kind of all about that.

If they don't even use their starting settler it might be that the AI is unaware of the "found on one tile island jungle" rule, but even that is resolved I wouldn't expect them to settle much but Tonga and maybe Samoa and Niue.

Leoreth, sugar cane thrives in Viti Levu's western side; and Polynesian knew Sugar.

Huh, that's interesting. Might provide a reason to settle Fiji which you normally wouldn't do, for some extra happiness.

 

[Chep]

if you check the UHV-thread, I posted a save were I finished all 3 UHVs well before 900AD (Emperor/Normal).

I think it is doable to finish all 3 UHVs 1-2 turns before 800AD on this difficulty level, but that requires almost perfect knowledge of how to proceed.

However for now I wouldn't recommend changing the goals since even with the Moaui you wouldn't be able to do that much.

Not having checked the map whether or not it is actually possible:
- make contact with 1 Native American tribe before the Europeans do it
(but this requires that you can get either from Easter Island or from Hawaii to America.)

 

[Leoreth]

No, you can't do that without actually teching to Optics.

Edit: although one additional coast tile near Galapagos or Peru would allow this from Nuku Hiva and Hanga Roa respectively.

 

[Leoreth]

New commit:
- fixed the first two Polynesian goals
- increased Moai Statues cost to 300
- Polynesian goal deadlines are now also displayed as turns
- added Sugar on Viti Levu (Fiji)
- blocked settlement on New Guinea (disappears in 800 AD)

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

Not even with their starting settler on Tonga?

In general, there is a reason that Polynesia is disabled as a standard setting. As you know, the AI is bad at naval transport and Polynesia is kind of all about that.

If they don't even use their starting settler it might be that the AI is unaware of the "found on one tile island jungle" rule, but even that is resolved I wouldn't expect them to settle much but Tonga and maybe Samoa and Niue.

They use the starting settler, they even load another settler in a Waka and then they group that Waka with one or two others carrying warriors but they don't move them anywhere. Those ships then just sit there for thousands of years doing nothing.

I started a few games as later civs to see if they'll settle anything but every time they did nothing (beside building a bunch of units in their capital).

 

[Leoreth]

That's not unexpected. I don't think I can do much about it.

 

[Chep]

A selfish question:
I want to give one of my favourite civs another try, the Indonesians, but since I have made some quite bad experiences th last few times, I thought I'd ask:

Do you foresee any continuity-breaking updates in the next week?
Of course there can always be bugs that require fixing and it is not always possible to say what that might require, but thats why I ask if you foresee it, not if there will be any (since no one knows that one^^)

 

[Leoreth]

Well, nothing but a crash would force you to update. As you know, the Polynesia commit seems to have introduced a new crash so it might be safer to start your game from the revision before that.

 

[merijn_v1]

Just finished a Polynesian game and I must say, it's great. I love the completely alternate situation which requires a different approach to the game.

I manage to beat the 1st UHV by 1 turn and the 2nd UHV by 0 turns. I was quite nervous when I had to wait for a cultural expansion which allowed my to settle Marquesas for the 1st UHV. I could have got the 2nd UHV a few turns earlier, because I didn't optimize the production of my settler producing city. (I just forgot to, which made me fail the UHV the first time and I had to reload an autosave to boost my production) After that, the 3rd UHV is quite easy.

I was very lucky to get the "+10 event" 2 times. The first time at turns 5 or something, which is very, very useful. The other was in 1030 AD.

It took me several tries to set up my strategy. After a few reloads I knew which islands I could settle at start and which ones I have to culture-hop. I discovered that settling on the starting spot is a very bad strategy. Fiji is much better and is required to get access to New Zealand. (EDIT: My bad, you can also reach New Zealand with a 3rd row from the starting spot city) This also gives room for Niue, which is required to get access to the islands in the east.

Suggestion:
- The Moai statues could give a bonus to the islands feature, like 1 hammer of commerce. Making it slightly more useful. Most cities only have 1 (very few 2) sea resources, while islands are quite common.

 

[Leoreth]

Sounds good! A strategy utilizing Fiji is interesting (maybe they need a dynamic name in case the capital is there). I think the second ring from Tonga is also sufficient to reach New Zealand though.

My strategy was always Tonga and Niue, then Samoa.

It makes sense to let the Moai Statues also have an impact on the island feature.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

I think the second ring from Tonga is also sufficient to reach New Zealand though.

Nope, you need part of the third ring. Or Fiji.

 

[merijn_v1]

I first thought it was impossible to reach New Zealand if I settle Tonga. I restarted my game because of this. (In the initial game, I did settle Tonga) During my Fiji capital I discovered Tonga will also be good to reach New Zealand.

The only problem with Fiji is that it's foreign territory, which will cause a lot of instability, as Niue is the only city in my core. This reminds me that the stability messages are enabled again.

Also, because Fiji has no "major" island tiles, I was able to build the Maoi Statues there. It is a very productive city. (In terms of Polynesia. It's awful compared to "normal" cities)