D+2: "The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials."

[TimTheEnchanter]

When you said we lost a trading partner I was convinced we had irritated the Vikings one too many times and they had declared war. I took the bait... :fish: hook line and sinker! Good to see things turning around so well...but then again, Kev ( ) has a turn coming up soon, and we all know what happened last game!

 

[Kev]

Have no fear, Tim. Loki will likely not have to pay a visit to this game.

And anyway, we have Jayne coming up soon to give us some barb uprisings!

Nice setup there, Duke. I'm kinda surprised to see the Russians so high on the powergraph. Also surprised to see that we're so close to the Vikings on the graph as well. Given their tech rise with the library and all, I thought they'd be further up there. Then again, we've been doing exceptionally well in technology given the circumstances.

Still think that we're in for some interesting war time activities - especially since we're not bribing cities! I'd be curious to see what kind of money the Vikings will be bringing in now that they're in Fundy! Perhaps THEY'LL be the ones bribing cities...

 

[Jayne]

And anyway, we have Jayne coming up soon to give us some barb uprisings!

You took the words out of my mouth!!!

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

One thing we talked about when setting up this game at the end of the D+1 game was not allowing ourselves to build a spaceship. Part of the challenge was going to be fighting all these militaristic civs on a big map. Can I assume this is part of our house rules (along with no city bribes)? You wouldn't want a pacifist like me to ruin the fun by building a quick SS, now would you?!

 

[Kev]

I believe you are correct, Tim.

I can see the fun now as we chase down capital after capital in the attempt to destroy other civs' spaceships. Fun, fun, fun.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I was looking for ways to attack the Vikings, but I couldn't see it lasting long without getting some more infrastructre in place first, so I concentrated on that. Maybe we'll get to some fighting soon.

 

[Old n Slow]

(It is comforting to know that real life sometimes happens to all of us.)

Hmmm -- let's see what can we offer for teasers...

We are now at war with half of the world -- but our foreign advisor claims that we are doing remarkably well...(lol)

Non-Chinese units are seen behind our lines -- who, where, & how many?

The world sees two new wonders -- Which ones & where.

The world sees a few new techs -- where are we in this arena?

And how are the Chinese cities & people doing?

 

[Old n Slow]

1766 (0) -- Bejing & Shanghi build harbors, Xinjian builds a bank. Those cities building temples, camels, or engineers will go without notice as there are some of each every turn.

1768 (1) -- Silk (d) from Verona to Chengdu = 33g. (OK, check where these places are before allowing domestic delivery.) Found Roma. Salamis, Genoa, & Naples all blow up. Pop = 7M (Russians discover Steam) Dargoons nail a Greek Cat up north.

1770 (2) -- Swap mag for steam with the Russians, & they give us $100g to boot. (Viking & Spanish go to war.) Found Bermuda & Smallville; Kaifeng & Tatung blow up (other cities recover.) Xinjian builds a library.

1772 (3) -- Gold (d) from Tsingtao to Nan = $54g; Silk (d) from Kaifeng to Minsk = $360g. Found Malta; Jayne's Plains & Prague blow up (other cities recover.) The science poll comes out -- Most advanced in order: Chinese, Vikings, Zulus, Russians, Mongols, Greeks, Spanish. (Having friends makes a difference.)

1774 (4) -- Discover Sanitation; opt for Electricity over Democracy & Atomic Theory (tough choice for me -- Elec allows for farming and of course stops the Vikes & their GL effect; Democracy, of course...has its own virtues & vices. On the other hand the Vikes already have demo...

Xinjian & Shanghai build sewers. Paoting blows up. Greeks discover Steam, Mongols discover RR & start Darwin's. Pop = 8M

1776 (5) -- Found Middleboro & Florence. Talk to Russians about a gift (don't try our patience), Mongols (we give Metal for a conversation that goes nowhere.)

1778 (6) -- Russians discover RR & start Darwin's (Vikes get via GL & start Darwin's as well) Zulus discover Economics & start Adam Smith. Xinjian builds Isaac Newton's.

Copper (d) from Genoa to Moscow = 164g. Discover two Zulu Engineers zipping past Cremona into our territory -- a number of our units respond including three engineers, a dip & a dragoon (check & the going price for a Zulu Eng =$300g -- hmmm tempting, but we'll pass for now.) Talk to Zulus & give them Steam, but get nothing in returm. Found Badlands & Das Boot. (Discover we have two Paotings; one is renamed Paw Paw.)

1780 (7) -- Mongols want Mag (said the camel bumping up to our musket) -- Uh, no. They declare WAR. Vikes nearly complete Darwin's. Vikes nearly complete Darwin's. Vikes nearly complete Darwin's. (lol, but it may be many shields in place for the next wonder.) Xinjian builds a uni, Shanghai builds a bank, & Bejing builds a sewer. The dip in a boat steals RR from Karakorum (and the galleon later dies from a mongol ironclad). Our musket smacks the Mongol camel.

1782 (8) -- Skara (Viking) builds Darwin's; they choose Conscription & Industrialization & start WS. Russ & Mongols abandon thei wonder efforts. Spanish & Mongols ally vs the Chinese (& Spain gets RR.) (Hmmm maybe we should give RR to the Zulus & Greeks -- have them build up their internal networks to ease our visiting vehicles in the future...) Lost City, Moo Shi, Venice, & Chinan all blow up. Spice (d) to Kiev = 236g. Found Left Canal (yes it might make sense to found the sister city on the other side of the lake.) Pop = 9M

Some units are still available for move (a couple of dips & boats) this turn.

We're first in disease at 16% (the Zulus are listed at -8% -- how can someone have a negative disease rate?)

I opted to stop at eight turns -- careful play is taking more time.

Notes -- there are a couple of Mongol Ironclads off shore near Moo Shi -- hence the half laden boat in Turin is hesitant to move.

In the North, there has been about one Greek unit per turn that has stepped in to be chewed on. For the last three turns, however, this seems to have increased -- once two units appeared, another time a knight showed up & attacked (hence the fortress activity on the hill.) We may want to suffer the woes & bring up reinforcements sooner vs. later (maybe even both the dragoons from Naples & Toronto staged to Greek point, then to the fort.) I was thinking of having a size two city (maybe on a mined hill) support the infantry in the field, thus easing the resistance to allow us democracy -- in fact the fort on a hill site may be a good candidate (can work the whale, build a temple, work some railroaded trees some day.) We don't seem to have too many other military units in the field -- so maybe we should move to democracy sooner -- there is a lot of corruption eating away at our trade arrows in a number of cities.

There is still a Zulu engineer hanging around near Badlands -- I think the second one went home (but vanished in any case.)

Two copper camels are on the road in Russia -- payoffs might be $250 or so when they arrive. Electricity should be discovered in 1-3 turns, probably two if one of the camels hits a target.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I'm out of town until the 29th, so if my turn comes back up by then, just skip me and I'll jump back in after I get back.

 

[Jayne]

I have to save, and will play just as soon as Lucy decides it's time for her nap.

I wonder how many barbs I'll get?

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Jayne
I have to save, and will play just as soon as Lucy decides it's time for her nap.

I wonder how many barbs I'll get?

We've got the map filled in pretty well except for the far south "Venice" region, so you're probably safe from most Barbs.

However, the Vikings...

 

[TheViking]

Originally posted by TimTheEnchanter
We've got the map filled in pretty well except for the far south "Venice" region, so you're probably safe from most Barbs.

However, the Vikings...

...have several techs that would be useful to us and they are building Women's Suffrage that would be highly useful to us. We should try exchanging techs with them and if they refuse we should maybe bite the bullet and steal these techs. That means war but it is inevitable anyway.

If we acquire Industrialization before the Vikings finish WS we should try building it by setting taxes to maximum and, if necessary, sell some city improvements to get it.

In addition, the Zulus have economics but they are pathetically weak and primitive and maybe we should start thinking about conquering them :devil2:

 

[Jayne]

So what can I tell you to keep you guessing whilst I type my notes?

11 new cities, but where?
3 Wonders, are they ours?
1 lost alliance, 2 peace treaties broken and 3 wars declared, but does any of this involve us?
We got 5 new techs, but did we research, trade or steal?
2 towns revolted - who to?
In one year 23 cities were in disorder - why?
Engineers are working on a new task. What is it?

And finally - the question you all want to know - how many barbs did I activate?

 

[Jayne]

1782(0) - Greeks kill our engineer/unit stack near Delpi.
Mongols bribe Blenheim Palace and get €4 + Magnetism.
Vikings nearly complete 2x WS.
Spanish develop Physics.

1784(1) - Population +10,000,000
Mongol government overthrown. They request audience (enraged, 2 spears). They demand €750. We refuse so they vow to continue their war.
Dragoon kills Mongol settler to become veteran. Discover Mongol city of Quinsey (size12).
Turin/Tblisi trade route +€187 + €5
Dragoon kills Greek dip on hill near Delphi.
Mongols bcome monarchy
Russians develop Industrialization and start WS
Vikings nearly complete 2x WS (again!).

1786(2) - Discover Electricity and start Economics (Demo not offered).
Found Chopsticks (dip). Taipei founded (musket)
Milan/Sevastopol trade route €84 + €3.
Dragoon kills cat/knight stack near Delphi.
Speak to Russians (enth, 6 rifles). Swap chemistry for Indust (Leo's upgrades) They gift €25.
Greek knight loses to our dragoon near Delphi.
Jarrow (Vik) builds WS and Russians abandon.

1788(3) - Population +11,000,000.
Something Fishy founded (musket)
Hamburg/Shanghai trade route €84 + €6
Dragoon kills knoght near Delphi.
Speak to Zulus (hoping to trade for Econ and switch to Demo)(Uncoop, 1 arrow). Gift RR (neut). No exchange because they are too busy building Adam Smiths
Greeks develop RR. Greek knight commits suicide on our badly injured dragoon!
Mongols develop banking. Mongol ironclad attacks Genoa killing dragoon and transport.
Spanish aquire metallurgy from Mongols.

1790(4) - Pollution near Tsingtoa!
Duchy of China founded (musket). Romanov founded (musket).
Genoa transport defeat Mongol ironclad to become veteran. Second ironclad retreats.
Musket on hill near Left Canal defeats Mongol knight - vet.

1792(5) - NoBarbsYet founded (musket)
New Capua/Intombe trade route €66 + €4
Greek knight kills dragoon near GreekPoint.
Russians develop Communism and start UN.
Zulus develop Democracy.

1794(6) - Mongol Frontier founded (musket).
Mongol ship(s) approaching Turin.
Tundra Fortress founded (dip). Cymru founded (musket).
Speak to Russians (Neut, 5 rifles) Exchange Explosives for Communism. Gift ToG (Recept) Ask for gift - alliance dissolved!
Speak to Zulus. Gift Indust and Sanit and get nothing in return.
Russians nearly complete UN.
Vikings cancel peace with Russians and Greeks.

1796(7) - 23 cities go into disorder! I don't know why. Maybe someone can enlighten me!
Hut found on south pole.
Dragoons attack knight/catapult stack near DoC.
Greeks bribe Greek Point and get €9 + Industrialization.
Russians nearly finished UN. Moscow builds UN. Zulus nearly finished AS.
Vikings and Greeks declare war. Spanish and Mongols declare war.
Spanish aquire Magnetism from Mongols.

1798(8) - Discover Economics, start Corporation. Population +13,000,000.
Speak to Zulus. Exchange electricity for Democracy. Gift Communism,
Xinjian/Umtata trade route €51
Polar hut = €50
Greeks develop trade.
Mongol government overthrown. Mongols and Spanish sign peace treaty and allie against us.
Spanish aquire Republic from Mongols
Zimbabwe builds AS.

1800(9) - StillNoBarbs founded (musket)
Bribe Mongol knight €310.
New Capua/Swazi trade €16 + €3.
Aurora Borealis founded (dip)
Mongols become Republic. Russian government overthrown.
Russians request audience (icy, 5 rifles). Demand €1000 tribute! Refuse = war!
Russians develop Democracy but become communist.
Vikings develop tactics.

1802(10) - Knight kills Mongol knight
Cunaxa/Magnitogorsk trade €204 + €3.

If I'm correct - the next Oedo year is 1804, so we need a Revolution this turn.

1802ad

 

[TheViking]

Where are the barbs ?

This is getting more and more interesting and it is now absolutely certain (if it wasn't so earlier on) that this game is going to be decided in a major modern-unit war . There are some huge AI civs out there with thousands of $$.

We can revolt now but switch to what form of government? Probably democracy but since we will soon be involved in major warfare and do not have the UN communism is an option. Our empire is geographically very large so it wouldn't surprise me if we actually achieved a better science rate there than as a republic.

One thing that immediately struck me is that we need more engineers and we should start a major railroad construction project. And I think we need more dragoons, diplomats, fortresses and engineers in the cities on the Greek continent (Naples, Prague etc.). And we should bribe Greek Point back, the Greeks are not researching anything useful to steal later on.

The Vikings have some techs that make me greedy .

We should start paying attention to how we are going to build the Hoover dam ahead of the AI. Things are developing very fast now and soon someone will discover electronics.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I would be in favor of Communism over Democracy. This is hardy anywhere close to an ideal time to try and pull off a Democracy.

Railroads are the key right now. If we can get them in place we can transport units around like crazy and blitz any civ we want.

IIRC, we are not bribing cities this game, so we'll have to capture back any that were taken from us.

I'd like the Vikings to be the first issue. They are close to us and have some decent techs. Build more dragoons, get the vikings to declare war on us (if they are not already?), steal their techs until we have at least tactics and conscription. All our dragoons will become Calvary and our Muskets will become Riflemen. Perhaps build some coastal fortress' in the cites near the Vikings since I'm assuming they'll send some Ironclads over to visit us. While all that is going on concentrate our engineers on build a rail network that leads to the Zulus.

Then, get the Zulus to declare war on us and take them out. It will secure our main continent and give us a better launching ground for the Russians (eventually). After them, we shoudl be able to jump on any civ that doesn't have Conscription yet.

After Kev, we are dropping to five turns per person, right?

 

[Kev]

I think that I'll likely play about 7 or 8 myself. Looks like a lot to do.

Rats! The UN would have been very, very nice in what it would have done for our ability to control some warfare. Can't remember the last time I didn't have that wonder - this should be some serious FUN!

As for taking on the Vikes right now (or anytime soon), I'm not too sure how keen I am. They have tactics now and are likely building about a billion alpine troops (as the AI loves to do) and are going to be putting cavs in the field soon as well. I don't think our dragoons/cavs will fare well against their cities. If you're just going for a defensive war and keeping clear after stealing techs, that's not a bad idea. I've been after their techs for a good while now! We do not have espionage do we? Why am I thinking that with dips, we can just send them to cities we're at peace with and have them steal techs without any rep repercussions or gov't collapse. Of course, it means that we cannot take techs from the same city twice (and possibly it might affect their stance toward us?), but for some reason I'm thinking we don't necessarily HAVE to have warfare with the Vikes to steal their techs safely... Please correct me if I'm wrong and I start plying accordingly...

I guess the Zulus are still quite backwards even though we've gifted them quite a bit. I agree with Duke that a railroad network along with some decent units could help us take some Zulu cities. Just hope they don't trade with someone for tactics and/or conscription. It would be nice to eventually gain control of our home continent!

Hmmm... Communism. I don't think I've EVER played a game in which I was in communism for any length of time. This will be quite a new thing for me if I decide to switch. However, I am fearful of very wealthy AI's doing some more bribing - though they certainly won't do 1/100th of the damage a human player would/could.

I'm on the case tonight hopefully. Let you know how it goes! At least I don't have a barb horde to deal with.

One last thing... I'm searching the memory here... but I think Communism cancels out the positive effects of Theology on temples ... Or something like that. This, Jayne, may be why so many cities revolted after you got Communism...

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Yes, I meant a defensive war with the Vikings. I don't think we can even dream to take on any civ with Conscription right now. IIRC, stealing techs from someone is considered a hostile act, so we would need to be at war with them first to avoid the Reputation hit. If we have espionage, all the better.

To avoid our cities from being bribed, we just need to not let their units get near out cities. In Communism we can have many more units in the field to help ensure that.

Yes, Communism decreases the effect of Cathedrals (and thus Mike's) by one.

 

[TheViking]

We might want democracy for a few turns before communism to get rid of corruption in the remote corners of our world and celebrate the cities there to size 8 or so.

I find it a little tempting to not only start a defensive war against the Vikings but to capture their capital (Trondheim) and then isolate it from their main empire by occupying a three fortress line just NW of the city (there's one fortress there already). Then turn our attention to Kaupang, Uppsala and Aarhus. To prevent the vikings from bribing Trondheim back we could move our capital there.

This is a radical idea but could be fun to do against the Vikings, especially for someone calling himself a viking .

Another idea could be to take no cities but start occupying fortresses on the Viking continent with alpine troops, cavalry and diplomats and changing the terrain to forest using engineers.

BTW we can steal techs from the Vikings without being at war with them but doing so may result in them declaring war, a repuation hit and a scandal in the senate (meaning anarchy) if we are a democracy or republic.

This is going to be a lot of fun.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

We can't do anything that can drop our reputation, so we have to have declarion of war first (or maybe just a change to communism first would be enough).

How can we take Trondheim? Riflemen behind city walls?

Plus, Communism will basically eleiminate any corruption in our cities, just that we will lose the benefit of our cities celebrating up in size. If we can get them to celebrate in Communism, they will basically give the same income as a Democracy, but we can have more troops in the field.