D+2: "The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials."

[Andu Indorin]

Guess that just leaves myself and Kev to round out the playing order:

Viking
TimTheEnchanter
DukeOfMarlboro
OldnSlow
Jayne
Andu
Kev

As for the mole: perhaps we can let Kev randomly decide which of the other players is the Mole, since he had so much fun last game.

BTW: Barb Wrath in effect

 

[Terrapin]

I do not want to play. I am nowhere near good enough to play at this level. I have enough trouble trying to separate from the ai's on diety. However, can anyone explain the differences from D to D+1 and D+2, et al?

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by TheViking
I notice that it is possible to fix Shanghai's unhappiness by setting luxuries to 60% and working an ocean square (this 60%/ocean combination is the only way to get rid of Elvis there). This is typical at D+2. Whether doing this is a good idea or not is a different matter.

EDIT: Building closely packed cities is probably a good idea.

There is another strategy we can use in these early, disorderly cities. Because we are in despotism, there is nothing that says we can't keep a city in continuous disorder...the city won't produce any shields, and I'm not sure if it produces gold, but I know it produces both beakers and food. This would allow us to take a city like shanghai up to size 2 for an elvis in 10 turns (working grassland) so we can work the grass with a worker. Or we could get extra science by working the ocean, and still add 1 food per turn (growing in 20 turns). I'm not sure it's something we want to do, but it's another option.

 

[Old n Slow]

-2500 -- Yes we buy the temple.

Work the Fish & an ocean space -- Having Bejing's second citizen work an ocean space instead of the Pheasant adds a beaker & a coin per turn, but slows the shield accumulationfrom three to one and food from two per turn to only one. Might not be a bad idea to work the city that way for a while to provide a financial cushion -- hate to lose the temple because the funds were too low.

-2200 -- Count the beakers (3 turns for the next discovery at best) -- switch the second citizen back to a Pheasant for some more shields toward a Settler.

-2050 -- Discover Myst, opt for Code of Laws (over BW, HBR, Mas, Pot, WC).

-2000 -- Still quiet.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by TimTheEnchanter
There is another strategy we can use in these early, disorderly cities. Because we are in despotism, there is nothing that says we can't keep a city in continuous disorder...the city won't produce any shields, and I'm not sure if it produces gold, but I know it produces both beakers and food. This would allow us to take a city like shanghai up to size 2 for an elvis in 10 turns (working grassland) so we can work the grass with a worker. Or we could get extra science by working the ocean, and still add 1 food per turn (growing in 20 turns). I'm not sure it's something we want to do, but it's another option.

When the city is in disorder, you get food and science production, but no gold or shield production. So, putting the citizen to work on the ocean square would give us one extra food and one more science. No real loss if we do that since we aren't worried about someone tryng to bribe the city.

It looks like it may save us 5 turns or so on our science goal doing that. Great thinking Tim.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by Terrapin
I do not want to play. I am nowhere near good enough to play at this level. I have enough trouble trying to separate from the ai's on diety. However, can anyone explain the differences from D to D+1 and D+2, et al?

Well, the differences are much the same as the difference between Emperor and Deity, only more so. Their research rates are increased while the human player's research rates are decreased, at 10% increments, I believe. Perhaps more significantly AI civs benefit from smaller production and food storage "boxes", so they build and grow faster.

 

[Jayne]

I'll play in the next 24 hours.

 

[Kev]

Just got back from meeting with Andu at a great bar in Chicago. Glad he let me know this was up and running, I've been lax in checking things out.

Perhaps I'll hold off on 'moling' someone for now. We may need to put all of our efforts into the postitive building of the civilization first - we may find ourselves behind for most of the game even. We'll see how it goes.

Looking forward to this game. Could someone post a screenie or two since I'm traveling and won't be able to download the game for a few days?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

There's not much to see right now.

2000BC

 

[Jayne]

Perhaps I'll hold off on 'moling' someone for now

Can someone explain 'moling' to me please? To me, a 'mole' a sabateur. Is that what you mean?

 

[Jayne]

1950bc - All very quiet.

1900bc - Tacitus publishes his paper on the largest civilizations, and brands us as hopeless!

1850-1750bc Still all very quiet!

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by Jayne
Can someone explain 'moling' to me please? To me, a 'mole' a sabateur. Is that what you mean?

Yes. In the last game we played Kev decied to give us a little more of a challenge and play 'counter productively'. It added a nice little bit of turmoil to our otherwise typical game.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Jayne


Can someone explain 'moling' to me please? To me, a 'mole' a sabateur. Is that what you mean?

You can go look at Kev's mischief about halfway down the page on that link from the D+1 thread. At the end of that game we talked about nominating someone to be the Mole in this game as well.

 

[Andu Indorin]

1750: "Great fortunes depend on luck; small fortunes depend on diligence." Zulu horsemen appear from northwest at the undefended Shanghai. Horseback Riding aquired in exchange for Mysticism.

"What you do not wish upon yourself, extend not to others." Zulus take pity on us, enter into an alliance and give us 50 gold.

1700: "Without rice, even the cleverest housewife cannot cook." Having switched to food production, Shanghai descends into disorder.

1650: "My associate must be the man who proceeds to action full of solicitude, who is fond of adjusting his plans, and then carries them into execution." Beijing builds settlers, commence exploration.

1600: "If you know, to recognize that you know; if you don't know, to realize that you don't know: That is knowledge." A time for contemplation.

1550: "You don't stop playing because you grow old. You grow old because you've stopped playing." And patience is a virtue.

1500: "Running a large country is like cooking a small fish." Council meets, everyone complains.

"A dog won't forsake his master because of his poverty." Rush building of Horsemen at Beijing is completed.

1450: "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Beijing Horsemen commence exploration.

1400: "Do not accept your dog's opinion that you are a wonderful person." Beijing descends into disorder.

"I would not have him to act with me, who will unarmed attack a tiger, or cross a river without a boat, dying without any regret." Beijing settlers recruit a band of wandering Nomads.

1350: "Three humble shoemakers brainstorming will make a great statesman." Beijing Horsemen discover the Advanced Tribe of Canton.

1300: "Never hesitate to ask a lesser person." Map Making acquired from Zulus.

1250: "A sly rabbit will have two openings to his den." Beijing Settlers arrive at new city site.


Note: I switched Shanghai and started Canton on food production because, under Despotism, a second citizen as an entertainer will allow the first to "work" in the first four or five cities established. This usually results in the quicker building Temples.

 

[Andu Indorin]

An alliance with the Zulus: that's got to be a first for me. But it does open up some interesting possibilities, especially if we can gift the Zulus "Code of Laws" for their map of the world. With luck and Code of Laws, we can hope to get Monarchy from them; and possibly also Bronze Working. This, of course, is possible only if we stay in their good graces, i.e., not become more "powerful" than they.

This would leave us open to pursue Writing, Literacy, Philosophy/Republic; and then onto Monotheism and trade. I'm inclined to think that Republic is going to be necessary if we are to get Mike's Chapel built. And it might also be possible to get Marco's Embassy.

 

[Kev]

I'm back from Chicago and on the case.

 

[Kev]

Well, a bunch of micro stuff over my turns. Hate that. Spent my time switching back and forth between entertainers and workers in some cities and a lot of time begging from the Zulus.

Here we go:

Can something endless
That without start nor an end
Serve the hands of men

1250 (0) - Zulus discover the wheel and also begin the lighthouse.

1200 (1) - Begging from the Zulus gives us the wheel. Not the best thing as it slows down code of laws, but necessary if we're to get money from them as we go. One bright spot is that chariots can fill the third slot in rush building (warrior, horse, chariot and then trireme/settler)

The eyes survey all
The giant draws the arrows
Friend and foe alike

1150 (2) - The Greeks begin the Colossus. We get 25 gold from the Zulus.

1100 (3) - More exploration. Zulus give us 50 gold

Spears ring upon shields
Once wielded shall bring the dark
Stayed, will bring the peace

1050 (4) - More exploration

1000 (5) - Warriors build in Shanghai. With a temple and warrior, both workers can work - without the warrior, the second worker was red.

Chance draws the wary
And addicts the foolhardy
Promising nothing

975 (6) - Horsie pops a hut - 50 gold. Yippie. Zulus give us 25 gold. Some rushing ensues.

950 (7) - Another hut spotted. Zulus cough up another 50 g's.

And so they all build
Blessed with the gift mortality
Will not see the fall

925 (8) - Hut produces a city - Nanking. It is a distant colony. Trireme built in Shanghai and explores. Uh oh, I may have sent a ship into a lake. Settler built in Bejing. Zulus trade maps but give no dinero.

900 (9) - I bet you're all wondering about the non settler and the settler from Shanghai. Well, I saw where they were, and I thought I spotted a good place on the map to settle a city. However, it was on a hill. So, I had the non settler head there and start mining while the Shanghai guy explored some more. In this year, the city of Tsingtao is built on the hill. Should be finished mining soon.

The two new cities have been a pain for happiness. Sorry all, but we do need to expand. I should have maybe held up a little, but that's the way I play and I'm very, very stubborn. It's not intolerable at least.

The bridge only joins
Where it is the maker's job
To merge into one

875 (10) - Settler boards the trireme. There is a perfect canal spot to the northwest. We'll need a city there if we're to get ships out of the apparent lake.

Notes:

Unhappiness is a pain, and our funds are not exactly growing like wildfire. I've been switching cities to entertainers and then back to workers once the city settles down. This seems to give the city the ability to produce fairly well. The Zulus have been generous, but the last few turns they've not given anything. Hopefully, they'll be nice again soon.

That about does it. Enjoy the second round.

 

[TheViking]

I have the game and will play tomorrow.

One thing based on my previous D+1 and D+2 games that I forgot to mention is that building cities on hills early in the game is IMO a very bad idea, they'll have enormous unhappiness problems because of lack of trade. I hope the fairly big amount of trade near Tsingtao can compensate but I'm not optimistic.

But there's at least one thing to be happy about: Very good terrain with rivers and specials.

I notice that we have two techs that enable us to start a wonder. This is very important. We should probably start a wonder soon and then switch to Mike if we somehow manage to get Monotheism before the AI builds Mike (IMO there's absolutely no chance we'll be able to get HG or Col). It is possible to win at D+2 without Mike or other happiness wonders (I'm probably winning a game where the first wonder I managed to build was Hoover and this was also before capturing any wonder from the AI).

 

[Kev]

I was considering the ramifications of the city on the hill as well, but there's a few river squares near Tsingtao with shields and a wine hill as well which should help. This could become a very nice production city when it gets going, so I decided to bite the bullet and go for it. It should be fine.

I agree that we need to start a wonder ASAP. Doubt we'd get any of the ancients, but it will likely allow us to get Mike's and probably even Leo's once we get the techs.

Onward to round 2!!!

 

[TheViking]

You only know what feeling happy feels like if you sometimes feel unhappy

Synopsis: 5 cities (one of size 2, the others of size 1), 1 settler, 1 trireme, 1 horseman, 2 warriors, $38 and 6 techs. Tax 40% (3/2), sci 60% (21 turns). Not exactly impressive. Alliance with the Zulus, they are the only civ we have met.

875 BC (0): Hit Enter.

850 BC (1): Zulus discover polytheism. Request gift, we get nothing.

825 BC (2): Arrghh !! Polytheism from hut, would have preferred getting it from the Zulus and getting $$ or a settler from the hut.

800 BC (3): The glorious city of Xinjian founded. Warrior completed in Shanghai so now it doesn't need an Elvis.

775 BC (4): The Zulus do not want to exchange techs...

750 BC (5): ... and do not want to gift us anything either.

725 BC (6): The Greeks have nearly completed the colossus.

700 BC (7): Athens (Greek) builds Colossus. Russians start the lighthouse, Vikings the Pyramids. Beijing grows and revolts. The Zulus agree to share world maps but unfortunately their geograohic knowledge hasn't improved. Zulu horseman spotted south of Canton.

675 BC (8): The Spanish start Lighthouse. At last !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we get $25 from the Zulus. Rush buy temple in Tsingtao.

650 BC (9): CoL discovered. Another $25 from the Zulus. We are rich. Rich, rich, rich !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

625 BC (10): The Zulus have nearly completed the Lighthouse, the Vikings abandon the Pyramids. $25 from the Zulus. We are swimming in cash . Pop hut: Barbarians So the Chinese leader decides to run away from everything and leave it to his successor to deal with this and the other countless problems .

Notes: Not unexpectedly, unhappiness is a big problem. I've been following my predecessor's example by allowing cities to go into disorder, fix it with an Elvis, maximize production once the city is happy again, this gives one round of 'high' production and then unhappiness again.

I've designated Tsingtao as our future production city. Once it finishes the warrior it should start a wonder that will later be switched to Mike if possible. Important: Do not allow the AI civs to build all available wonders before starting a wonder somewhere - if that happens we are probably in big trouble because then we probably can't start 'Mike' until we actually get Monotheism.

If the barbs head south they must be dealt with. Shanghai might need to rush buy a horseman (or elephant if possible by disbanding some warriors).

We must try to get an alliance with more AI civs since the Zulus are usually very primitive - we aren't going to get many techs from them.

Our glorious empire: