D-Day Commemoration: 6 June 1944

[El Justo]

well, the 62nd anniversary of the greatest amphibious military landing in the history of the world is upon us.

i wish i could elaborate on it like i could w/ some other topics. however, the bulk of my knowledge is drawn from commentaries, short passages, Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and the History Channel.

i would be curious to see how this anniversary is viewed in the former Axis countries and in France.

anyway - lest we not forget those who lost their lives fighting for their respective countries during this God awful bloody episode of WW2.

 

[pboily]

A salute and a thank you.

 

[puglover]

My great uncles died in the liberation of France.

To them, and their comrades.

 

[7ronin]

El J, you need to read the book, The Longest Day by Cornelius Ryan. It was the first good post war book about the invasion. Then you can slap The Longest Day movie (John Wayne and a cast of thousands) into your VCR or DVD player. Another good book is D Day: June 6, 1944: The Climactic Battle of World War II by Stephen E. Ambrose.

[On the map, a box with two x's on top is a division, three a corps and four an army. A box with an x inside the box is an infantry unit and a box with a flattened circle is an armor unit]

 

[FriendlyFire]

Ah brings back last year where the total lack of history education lead to students who when asked questions produced some hilaious results.

Dday was in 1869 in somewhere in America where Washington was fighting against some "King" and thats why we celebrate DDAY.

 

[El Justo]

El J, you need to read the book, The Longest Day by Cornelius Ryan. It was the first good post war book about the invasion. Then you can slap The Longest Day movie (John Wayne and a cast of thousands) into your VCR or DVD player. Another good book is D Day: June 6, 1944: The Climactic Battle of World War II by Stephen E. Ambrose.

[On the map, a box with two x's on top is a division, three a corps and four an army. A box with an x inside the box is an infantry unit and a box with a flattened circle is an armor unit]

ah yes. i've seen The Longest Day. i was impressed w/ it being that it was much older and the effects, etc were actually pretty good.

thanks for the map clarification, too. very helpful

FriendlyFire:
yes, it's pathetic what some kids nowadays pass off as history.

 

[Plotinus]

I once read that one in ten Britons thinks Hitler is a fictional character, although I'm not convinced that can be true.

 

[Hotpoint]

Bit of trivia. The D-Day landings were actually run from the place I work at in Portsmouth (it's a 19th Century Fort with a WWII bunker complex underneath).

My office is in the square building inside the Fort (it's the former NATO Communications Centre). The bunker itself is empty and unused now (except for by the bats that live there).

 

[7ronin]

I have threeteen aged granddaughters living nearby, so I thought I would conduct a small study on World War II history knowledge. I thought it would be a slam dunk because these girls all come from military families (their parents are all military officers). They did not do very well. As far as these kids are concerned, World War II might as well be ancient history. Apparently, in school these days World War II is just a paragraph in between the Great Depression and the New Deal on one side and the Rise of Consumerism on the other.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

A salute and a thank you.

Well said.

 

[Steph]

The DDay commemoration was not so important this year in France (the 60th anniversary was more important), and also because we have several other issues at the same time: Internal rivalries for next year presidential election, Roland Garros, the Football world cup starting today, etc.
However, DDay is still celebrated, and contrary to what many may think, we are still thankfull for the allies.
Normally, every year, around the 6th of June, we can see "Le jour le plus long" (the one with John Wayne, and all the others).

 

[sydhe]

Is November 11 a huge deal in France?

 

[Steph]

Not anymore. We have ceremonies, it's a free day, but less and less people attend the ceremonies (as we have less and less soldiers from the time available).
The 8th of May is also a free day, but not the 6th of June

 

[Adler17]

8th May? I always wonder why so much celebrating the fall of Breslau...

Adler

 

[El Justo]

i wouldn't see why 6 june would be considered what we here in the States call a "federal holiday".

7 December is remembered and 11 September is in the same category i reckon. neither are holidays though for us. we have a generic "Memorial Day" every May and that always falls on a Monday. we also have a "Veterans Day" which is observed on 11 November. both are "federal holidays" for us

 

[Plotinus]

As far as these kids are concerned, World War II might as well be ancient history.

Is WWII more important than ancient history, then? Or is ancient history the benchmark of unimportance? Personally I'd be happy to see less emphasis on WWII, at least in Britain, a country utterly obsessed with it (I started a thread about this a little while ago, about how a study had concluded that history as taught in schools consisted almost entirely of "Hitler and Henry", the Tudors being the other major topic, for some reason, and how far more balance was needed). Sometimes it seems like WWII was the only war in history, with the possible exception of WWI. I wonder why it's more important to remember this war than all the others. Could it be that it was the last time Britain was important on the world stage? Or am I just getting cynical? WWII saturates popular culture (even Doctor Who, in an inevitable WWII-set story last series, was obliged to make a "little Englander" speech about how great Britain was in it). If you bewail the ignorance of children about WWII, try them on the Thirty Years' War or the Peloponnesian War and see how they do on those.

I'm suddenly greatly reminded of that splendid song satirising such obsession, although in this case it's the elevation of WWI that's targeted...

Depuis que l'homme écrit l'Histoire
Depuis qu'il bataille à cœur joie
Entre mille et une guerr' notoires
Si j'étais t'nu de faire un choix
A l'encontre du vieil Homère
Je déclarerais tout de suite:
"Moi, mon colon, cell' que j'préfère,
C'est la guerr' de quatorz'-dix-huit!"

Est-ce à dire que je méprise
Les nobles guerres de jadis
Que je m'soucie comm' d'un'cerise
De celle de soixante-dix?
Au contrair', je la révère
Et lui donne un satisfecit
Mais, mon colon, celle que j'préfère
C'est la guerr' de quatorz'-dix-huit

Je sais que les guerriers de Sparte
Plantaient pas leurs epées dans l'eau
Que les grognards de Bonaparte
Tiraient pas leur poudre aux moineaux
Leurs faits d'armes sont légendaires
Au garde-à-vous, je les félicite
Mais, mon colon, celle que j'préfère
C'est la guerr' de quatorz'-dix-huit

Bien sûr, celle de l'an quarante
Ne m'as pas tout à fait déçu
Elle fut longue et massacrante
Et je ne crache pas dessus
Mais à mon sens, elle ne vaut guère
Guèr' plus qu'un premier accessit
Moi, mon colon, celle que j' préfère
C'est la guerr' de quatorz'-dix-huit

Mon but n'est pas de chercher noise
Au guérillas, non, fichtre, non
Guerres saintes, guerres sournoises
Qui n'osent pas dire leur nom,
Chacune a quelque chos' pour plaire
Chacune a son petit mérite
Mais, mon colon, celle que j'préfère
C'est la guerr' de quatorz'-dix-huit

Du fond de son sac à malices
Mars va sans doute, à l'occasion,
En sortir une, un vrai délice
Qui me fera grosse impression
En attendant je persévère
A dir' que ma guerr' favorite
Cell', mon colon, que j'voudrais faire
C'est la guerr' de quatorz'-dix-huit

Michael Flanders translated it loosely but brilliantly, although unfortunately he didn't come up with any translation for "massacrante":

War has had its apologians,
Ever since history began,
From the times of the Greeks and Trojans, when they sang of arms and the man.
But if you asked me to name the best, Sir,
I'd tell you the one I mean,
Head and shoulders above the rest, Sir, was the War of 14-18,
Head and shoulders above the rest, Sir, stands the War of 14-18.

There were the wars against all those Louis,
There were Caesar's wars in Gaul,
There was Britain's war in Suez, which wasn't a war at all.
There was the war of the Spanish succession,
Many other wars in between,
But they none of them made an impression like the war of 14-18,
They didn't make the same impression as the war of 14-18.

The war of American independence,
That was enjoyable, by and large,
Watching England's free descendants busy defeating German garge.
But the Boer war was a poor war, And I'm still inclined to lean,
Though Sir, it possibly isn't your war like the war of 14-18,
Though, it probably isn't your war, Sir, the war of 14-18.

There are certainly plenty of wars to choose from, you pick whichever one you please.
Like the one we've had all the news from, liberating the Vietnamese,
Or those wars for God and country, be it Korean or Philippine.
Sir, if you'll pardon my affrontry, give me the war of 14-18,
If you'll pardon my affrontry, Sir, the war of 14-18,

Every war has its own attraction from total war to border raid,
Call it rebellion, police action,
War of containment or crusade.
I don't underrate the late war we see so often on the screen,
But that wasn't a really great war like the war of 14-18,
No, the late war wasn't the great war like the war of 14-18.

No doubt Mars among his chattels has got some really splendid war,
Full of bigger and bloodier battles that we've ever seen before.
But until that time comes, Sir, when that greater war comes on the scene,
The one that I on the whole prefer, Sir, is the war of 14-18,
Yes, the one that I still prefer, Sir, is the war of 14-18.

 

[7ronin]

Is WWII more important than ancient history, then? Or is ancient history the benchmark of unimportance?

All I meant was that World War II is passing out of recent memory and is beginning to assume no more or less importance that any other historical event. World War II means one thing to me because I lived through part of it; it means something entirely different to someone who was born almost fifty years after the event.

I don't think that World War II is so important that it deserves extra time on the curriculum. I do think that people should learn enough about it to be able to understand the causes, the participants and the time frame at a minimum. The Thirty Years War and the Peloponnesian War deserve the same.