[RD] Daily Graphs and Charts

[Broken_Erika]

How can you tell that?

i right clicked and selected "View Image" and i got redirected to a login screen telling me i needed to sign in to view it.

 

[Kyriakos]

Seems there is a wall of powerplants in the border between US and CSA

 

[JohannaK]

That is the Ohio River, and none of the states whose border it serves as joined the CSA.

Sure West Virginia was part of Virginia which did, but it only separated from the rest of Virginia because it didnt want to be in the CSA, and Kentucky was invaded by the CSA in the early days, but thry never willingly joined.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

North Korean artillery sites v South Korean population centers.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yeah, there really is no war scenario for North Korea that doesn't involved Seoul getting the crap shelled out of it and a lot of civilian deaths.

 

[Cutlass]

Yeah, there really is no war scenario for North Korea that doesn't involved Seoul getting the crap shelled out of it and a lot of civilian deaths.

That depends on the actual range of NK artillery. Very little field artillery has a range beyond 15 miles, and very little of NK's artillery is modern and new.

 

[Arwon]

They have rockets, not just shell launchers.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

They have rockets, not just shell launchers.

So do the Palestinians, but apparently what they really need is peanuts.

 

[Lexicus]

Seems there is a wall of powerplants in the border between US and CSA

Kentucky belongs to the USA!

 

[dutchfire]

Yeah, there really is no war scenario for North Korea that doesn't involved Seoul getting the crap shelled out of it and a lot of civilian deaths.

I'm no expert, but I had the impression that (underground) shelters work pretty well against artillery and aerial bombardment. This is how Palestinian leadership is mostly unaffected by the periodic Israeli bombings, how the Germans limited the effect of the massive Allied bombing campaigns, how the Al Qaeda/Taliban protected themselves and why the Irani nuclear program is so hard to attack.

Problems are, of course, surprise attacks before you reach the shelter, having enough properly stocked shelters in the first place, all your infrastructure that is still going to be shot to pieces and the fact that in many longer wars, civilians cannot afford to stay in shelters forever because of food/water/medical needs.

In that sense, it might be a bit like tornadoes.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Kentucky belongs to the USA!

No, It belongs to Tasmania!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm thinking that shelters, as a concept, have never been tested on a scale comparable to Seoul. Twenty-five million is a lot of people to stuff into underground shelters. Population density is obviously a factor, but Seoul is on uncharted ground there as well.

Let's say you can shove 500 people into a 500 square meter shelter. Obviously easy if they are just going to stand around during a brief shelling, probably impossible if they are going to have to sleep and eat there, especially if you consider food stores, but a handy number to work with. In the city limits of Seoul you would need 34 such shelters per square kilometer based on the population density of 17,000/km2. That means about 8% of the area of the city would have to have a shelter under it.

 

[Lexicus]

Israel's shelter system is the most important reason they hardly suffer any casualties from the rocket attacks any more. That is probably the closest thing that exists in terms of scale to what Seoul would have to do.

 

[dutchfire]

I'm thinking that shelters, as a concept, have never been tested on a scale comparable to Seoul. Twenty-five million is a lot of people to stuff into underground shelters. Population density is obviously a factor, but Seoul is on uncharted ground there as well.

Let's say you can shove 500 people into a 500 square meter shelter. Obviously easy if they are just going to stand around during a brief shelling, probably impossible if they are going to have to sleep and eat there, especially if you consider food stores, but a handy number to work with. In the city limits of Seoul you would need 34 such shelters per square kilometer based on the population density of 17,000/km2. That means about 8% of the area of the city would have to have a shelter under it.

Well, I'm not saying it's going to be pleasant...
It also depends for how much time they're able to have such a bombardment without Allied countermeasures degrading their artillery. Is that days, or months?

War time Berlin had somewhere between 3 and 4.5 million people (statistics are a bit sketch obviously), so that is at least somewhat close in magnitude.

edit: Obviously, if the North Koreans use atomic, biological or chemical weapons, that makes the situation a lot worse.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Israel's shelter system is the most important reason they hardly suffer any casualties from the rocket attacks any more. That is probably the closest thing that exists in terms of scale to what Seoul would have to do.

Seoul has several times the population of Israel.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Israel's shelter system is the most important reason they hardly suffer any casualties from the rocket attacks any more.

This implies that they have ever suffered any significant casualties from rocket attacks...an assumption you may want to examine.

Seoul has several times the population of Israel.

Well, three=/=several, at least under normal circumstances, but that doesn't dispute your point.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, I'm not saying it's going to be pleasant...
It also depends for how much time they're able to have such a bombardment without Allied countermeasures degrading their artillery. Is that days, or months?

War time Berlin had somewhere between 3 and 4.5 million people (statistics are a bit sketch obviously), so that is at least somewhat close in magnitude.

edit: Obviously, if the North Koreans use atomic, biological or chemical weapons, that makes the situation a lot worse.

Just for clarity, current population of Berlin falls in that range and population density is less than a quarter of that in Seoul. Again, not saying that shelters can't work, just that nothing approaching these conditions has ever been tested. They would have to have a shelter under every street corner, and I don't know that that would be practical, if even possible.

 

[Lexicus]

This implies that they have ever suffered any significant casualties from rocket attacks...an assumption you may want to examine.

Well, there was a definite decrease, is the point.

To be clear I'm well aware that Seoul presents a much larger-scale problem than Israel, and that the fact that it "worked" in Israel does not mean it will work in Seoul. I'm just pointing to Israel as probably the best example we have, which doesn't mean it's a good example. Although now I think of it I suppose cities under aerial bombardment in WW2 would be a better example.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Well, three=/=several, at least under normal circumstances, but that doesn't dispute your point.

Several = more than one
Three = more than one
Several = three
Quod erat demonstrandum

 

[dutchfire]

Just for clarity, current population of Berlin falls in that range and population density is less than a quarter of that in Seoul. Again, not saying that shelters can't work, just that nothing approaching these conditions has ever been tested. They would have to have a shelter under every street corner, and I don't know that that would be practical, if even possible.

Sure, I don't really disagree. I think war-time Berlin is the closest example, it is still a factor of 4 of which is big but at least gives us an impression.