Tribute
Not Sarcastic
Ah, then you are up, D'artagnan.
D'Artagnan01: Low-level Training Day
- Thread starter D'Artagnan59
- Start date
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
No, actually we are being allowed the opportunity to receive even more teaching and learning from the grumpy old monk. Fewer players = more learning per player (and also = more chances to demonstrate our ineptitude, but oh wellTribute said:
).
D'Artagnan59
The Gascon
Moi needs to check up on the computer for tonight. Seems like the ICUmen rearranged some stuff around. Tomorrow it will be.
D'Artagnan59
The Gascon
![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
:thumbdown 
The virus also got into my Civ3 folder and corrupted everything in it! So the guys had to uninstall it!
Tribute
Not Sarcastic
Okay, then. CommandoBob can be up.
And D'artagnan, you can just reinstall Civ. (As long as you bought a CD)
And D'artagnan, you can just reinstall Civ. (As long as you bought a CD)
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Disclaimer
I will not have time to play these turns in one setting. My plan is to play and post each night. I have a temporary second job this week, so my time will be short.
Tonight I was only able to get the Preflight done and I had some questions.
Preflight Stuff
650 AD 1609 gold +64 gpt
Theory of Gravity 6 turns (0.8.2)
Paris (11), city in revolt, +4 food surplus, should grow to 12 in one turn after it calms down.
Orleans (10), grows in 4, uni in 11.
Lyons (10), grows in 2, Magellans in 24.
Rheims (8), grows in 14, uni in 20.
Tours (6), grows in 1, uni in 34.
Marseilles (7), grows in 16, uni in 24.
Chartres (7), grows in 34, uni in 30, change to harbor in 6 for faster growth.
Avignon (6), grows in 1, uni in 23.
Besancon (7), grows in 19, uni in 23.
Rouen (5), grows in 5, aqueduct in 25, fisherman to farmer, aqueduct in 19.
Grenoble (6), grows in 9999, 2 surplus food, aqueduct in 14, hire a geek.
Dijon (4), grows in 3, library in 9.
Rennes (6), grows in 9999, worker in 3, hire three geeks, zero growth.
Cherbourg (6), grows in 3, vPike in 3.
Toulouse (6), grows in 1, aqueduct in 19, hire a geek, zero growth, 'duct still in 19.
Bayonne (7), grows in 9, library in 7.
Planchet (6), rPike -> Trebuchet, still due in 6 turns.
Mousqueton (6), grows in 4, Trebuchet in 30 turns.
Bordeaux (6), rPike -> Trebuchet, city in revolt.
Amiens (3), fire the clown, library drops from 78 to 39 turns.
Poiters (6), rLongbow -> Trebuchet, 29 turns.
Strasbourg (3), rPike -> Trebuchet, 6 turns.
Brest (3), rLongbow -> Trebuchet, 3 turns.
City Builds:
French Military (Don't laugh, it is not an oxymoron)
French Diplomacy 650 AD
We import ivory (9 turns/England) and gems (10 turns/Korea) and iron (10 turns/Iroquois).
Embassy cost:
Inca: war
Korea: 59 gold
Copernics Observatotry Competition:
Paris (11) (France) :
Oil Springs (10) (Iroquois): 138 gold to investigate
Chicago (6) (America):
Trondheim (11) (Vikings): 148 gold to investigate
Worker near Mousqueton chopping a forest to feed to a treb? Seems a waste, wouldn't an improvement be better?
WorkerM is the 'highest' worker.
We can up science to 90% and learn Theory of Gravity in 5, not 6 turns. However, will need to hire a clown in Paris and thus slow the building of Copernicus's Observatory.
So we stay at 80%.
Do we need more science farms up north?
Potential Science Farms 650 AD
And the save for the IBT is >>HERE<<.
I will not have time to play these turns in one setting. My plan is to play and post each night. I have a temporary second job this week, so my time will be short.
Tonight I was only able to get the Preflight done and I had some questions.
Preflight Stuff
650 AD 1609 gold +64 gpt
Theory of Gravity 6 turns (0.8.2)
Paris (11), city in revolt, +4 food surplus, should grow to 12 in one turn after it calms down.
Orleans (10), grows in 4, uni in 11.
Lyons (10), grows in 2, Magellans in 24.
Rheims (8), grows in 14, uni in 20.
Tours (6), grows in 1, uni in 34.
Marseilles (7), grows in 16, uni in 24.
Chartres (7), grows in 34, uni in 30, change to harbor in 6 for faster growth.
Avignon (6), grows in 1, uni in 23.
Besancon (7), grows in 19, uni in 23.
Rouen (5), grows in 5, aqueduct in 25, fisherman to farmer, aqueduct in 19.
Grenoble (6), grows in 9999, 2 surplus food, aqueduct in 14, hire a geek.
Dijon (4), grows in 3, library in 9.
Rennes (6), grows in 9999, worker in 3, hire three geeks, zero growth.
Cherbourg (6), grows in 3, vPike in 3.
Toulouse (6), grows in 1, aqueduct in 19, hire a geek, zero growth, 'duct still in 19.
Bayonne (7), grows in 9, library in 7.
Planchet (6), rPike -> Trebuchet, still due in 6 turns.
Mousqueton (6), grows in 4, Trebuchet in 30 turns.
Bordeaux (6), rPike -> Trebuchet, city in revolt.
Amiens (3), fire the clown, library drops from 78 to 39 turns.
Poiters (6), rLongbow -> Trebuchet, 29 turns.
Strasbourg (3), rPike -> Trebuchet, 6 turns.
Brest (3), rLongbow -> Trebuchet, 3 turns.
City Builds:
- Copernicus Observatory [1] (Paris)
- University [6] (Orleans, Rheims, Tours, Marseilles, Avignon and Besancon)
- Magellan's Voyage [1] (Lyons)
- Harbor [1] (Chartres)
- Aqueduct [3] (Rouen, Grenoble and Toulouse)
- Library [3] (Dijon, Bayonne and Amiens)
- Worker [1] (Rennes)
- vPike [1] (Cherbourg)
- Trebuchet [6] (Planchet, Mousqueton, Bordeaux, Poiters, Strasbourg and Brest)
French Military (Don't laugh, it is not an oxymoron)
- Workers: 16
- Warriors: 1
- Pikes: 5
- Longbows: 8
- Knights: 1
- Galley: 3
- Caravel: 1
- Maces: 6
- Trebuchets: 4
French Diplomacy 650 AD
We import ivory (9 turns/England) and gems (10 turns/Korea) and iron (10 turns/Iroquois).
Embassy cost:
Inca: war
Korea: 59 gold
Copernics Observatotry Competition:
Paris (11) (France) :
Oil Springs (10) (Iroquois): 138 gold to investigate
Chicago (6) (America):
Trondheim (11) (Vikings): 148 gold to investigate
Worker near Mousqueton chopping a forest to feed to a treb? Seems a waste, wouldn't an improvement be better?
WorkerM is the 'highest' worker.
We can up science to 90% and learn Theory of Gravity in 5, not 6 turns. However, will need to hire a clown in Paris and thus slow the building of Copernicus's Observatory.
So we stay at 80%.
Do we need more science farms up north?
Potential Science Farms 650 AD
And the save for the IBT is >>HERE<<.
The Commando said:
Rats! Looks like we get ourselves a very expensive something or other. C'est la vie!
And get that worker off the hill unless he's building an irrigation terrace for the vineyard!
And chopping the trees for the treb is probably the best use of them, we need the irrigated grass more than we need a building up there.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
You may have misread the numbers. Paris (11) means Paris, size 11; not Paris 11 turns to complete.Bede said:
I would like to investigate these Wonder building cities to get an idea of what we face in order to get the Observatory. Wanted to let the team know the cost involved.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
If I'm correct, I belive your picture says this:
Copernicus Observatory [1] (Paris)
if this means that Copernicus is in one turn, why do we need to investigate?
Copernicus Observatory [1] (Paris)
if this means that Copernicus is in one turn, why do we need to investigate?
By all means investigate though I wouldn't necessarily spend the money on Chicago as it is too small to worry about. And now that I thinjk about it you can't anyway. Also you can make some intelligent estimates by having a bare map and counting tiles in the radius, though that can be tedious.
Sorry I misread the post.
Sorry I misread the post.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
No, that part of my post is just how many cities are making what. We are building Copernicus' Observatory in one place, Paris.Ansar the King said:If I'm correct, I belive your picture says this:
Copernicus Observatory [1] (Paris)
if this means that Copernicus is in one turn, why do we need to investigate?
We are building six universities, one in each of those cities.
This is just another way to look at what we are doing and see if it is on track with what we want to do. I start with the capital, cycle through the cities, and add new builds as they show up. Which means the list and order change each turnset, because the builds change.
I break the builds down this way because I cannot read and count at the same time. Plus, it easier to read than looking for things in the city list.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
lurker's comment: You are very thorough, CommandoBob. It might be a good idea to establish some conventions at the beginning of the game (or board-wide would be ever-so-useful), such as:
[5] - the number of specific builds in progress, like libs
(6) - the size of a city
3t - turns left on a build
10* - the number of units or improvements already built
This is just a suggestion, and there may be other numbers to express in different ways. If everyone did it the same way, it might save some typing and we'd all understand each other.
[5] - the number of specific builds in progress, like libs
(6) - the size of a city
3t - turns left on a build
10* - the number of units or improvements already built
This is just a suggestion, and there may be other numbers to express in different ways. If everyone did it the same way, it might save some typing and we'd all understand each other.
Tribute
Not Sarcastic
Yes. A wondeful idea. We should have a SG writeup convention. Maybe have it stickied too....
D'Artagnan59
The Gascon
Yes. I agree.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
A little confusing, but I like it. its very informative and keeps everyone aware of what we are building. 
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
July 25, 2006
After discussion, investigate Oil Springs.
Oil Springs 650 AD
No worry, Copernicus in 30 turns.
Investigate Trondheim.
Trondheim 650 AD
Hmm, could be problems, Copernicus is due in 9 turns (net of 20 shields per turn).
But the city has 4 happy citizens, 5 unhappy citizens and 2 clowns. Could revolt this next turn (if we are lucky).
Fire up CivAssist II.
Paris needs 87 shields to complete the Observatory and we make 19 per turn. In five turns 95 shields. So Copernicus should be ours be several turns, unless the Vikings get a Great Leader.
But we will lose Magellans to the Vikings. In five turns they will be 100 shields or so away from Magellans. They can switch and have it in ten turns or so. Lyons is over 20 turns from completing that Wonder.
And since we have an MA with the Vikings vs. America, it would be very rude for us to invade Trondhiem to stop that build.
No, we don't either.
We know Navigation, the Vikings do not. If we finish the Observatory before they learn Navigation, they cannot build Magellan's Voyage, since they will lack that knowledge. Both of them will have a very expensive temple or market, but no Wonder.
Lyons can build Magellan's Voyage at her own pace.
And in six turns we can begin to build Newton's University in Paris, too.
Almost switch a citizen in Paris to work a mine instead of just making food, then remember that Paris will grow this IBT and gain some more production.
Without railroads, the most Paris can produce, as far as I can see, is 20 shields per turn. Newton's would take 20 turns.
Wait, we could mine the wheat, that would bring us up to 21 spt.
Wake the worker on the grape hill near Cherbourg. Need food, not shields, from here.
Did not get a chance to play. Spent the time examining the Wonder Race.
From here, looks like we get the Observatory, the Voyage and the University pretty much uncontested.
After discussion, investigate Oil Springs.
Oil Springs 650 AD
No worry, Copernicus in 30 turns.
Investigate Trondheim.
Trondheim 650 AD
Hmm, could be problems, Copernicus is due in 9 turns (net of 20 shields per turn).
But the city has 4 happy citizens, 5 unhappy citizens and 2 clowns. Could revolt this next turn (if we are lucky).
Fire up CivAssist II.
Paris needs 87 shields to complete the Observatory and we make 19 per turn. In five turns 95 shields. So Copernicus should be ours be several turns, unless the Vikings get a Great Leader.
But we will lose Magellans to the Vikings. In five turns they will be 100 shields or so away from Magellans. They can switch and have it in ten turns or so. Lyons is over 20 turns from completing that Wonder.
And since we have an MA with the Vikings vs. America, it would be very rude for us to invade Trondhiem to stop that build.
No, we don't either.
We know Navigation, the Vikings do not. If we finish the Observatory before they learn Navigation, they cannot build Magellan's Voyage, since they will lack that knowledge. Both of them will have a very expensive temple or market, but no Wonder.
Lyons can build Magellan's Voyage at her own pace.
And in six turns we can begin to build Newton's University in Paris, too.
Almost switch a citizen in Paris to work a mine instead of just making food, then remember that Paris will grow this IBT and gain some more production.
Without railroads, the most Paris can produce, as far as I can see, is 20 shields per turn. Newton's would take 20 turns.
Wait, we could mine the wheat, that would bring us up to 21 spt.
Wake the worker on the grape hill near Cherbourg. Need food, not shields, from here.
Did not get a chance to play. Spent the time examining the Wonder Race.
From here, looks like we get the Observatory, the Voyage and the University pretty much uncontested.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Remember that Magellan's Voyage is a pre-build for Newton's University.
BTW, looks like Ragnar is in a golden age, glad he finally used it and more glad it didnt let him get Copernicus. Looks like Trondheim could really use a marketplace, silly AI...
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Yes, but what I see is the chance to put the Observatory AND Newtons in one city, where they both work their magic on the science produced in that city. I am not sure how the math works, since they both do the same thing, that is, double the science output of the city they are in.Ansar the King said:Remember that Magellan's Voyage is a pre-build for Newton's University.
So if Paris made 100 beakers of science per turn, then the Observatory would double that to 200. If Newton's is also in the same city, I don't know if it doubles the basic science output (100) or the enhanced science output (200). On the low end, it would produce 300 beakers per turn; 400 on the high end.
So with both of these Wonders in one city, that cities science output would either triple or quadruple. I wasn't able to find out when I skimmed the War Academy just now.
When then brings up the question, if we can get Magellan's, do we want it or can we use it as a pre-build to something else, like Smith's Trading Company?
EDIT:
I don't think I'm Wonder Happy, but Smith's would do us more good than Magellan's. With Smith's our markets and banks do not cost any upkeep, which to me has always seemed to be a huge benefit of this Wonder.
The math on the mulitplier buildings is additive, not compounded. So if you have 10 beakers per turn net you get (10x2) + (10x2) = 40 rather than (10x2) + (20x2) = 60
It can be very powerful having the two buildings in the same city Lyons however is a tremendous commerce producer so having Newton's there will be even more powerful in this case. I suppose I could do the math, but my gut tells me that is in fact the case. Magellan's is not a priority for us in any case, and in fact neither is Smith's (Heresy, they shout from the sidelines).
Remember that we are running our research budget at maximum after entertainment for most of the game. In that case banks and stock exchanges will be drags on the economy rather than accelerants. The few turns when there is an exploitable gap between income and outlay will be not be worth the shields it costs to build those buildings. The marketplaces we have built are for the luxury multiplying benefit, not the commerce multiplying benefit.
Look back a few pages for my comment on value of universities. Outside the strongest commerce and shield producing towns they aren't worth the shields to build them as they cost a lot more than libraries yet offer no more benefit. Better to spend those shields on population enhancements in that case. If you need 10 net beakers at the anticipated budget level (slider setting) to justify a library you are going to need at least twenty net beakers at the same setting to justify a university. Not many towns outside the core will ever reach that level.
It can be very powerful having the two buildings in the same city Lyons however is a tremendous commerce producer so having Newton's there will be even more powerful in this case. I suppose I could do the math, but my gut tells me that is in fact the case. Magellan's is not a priority for us in any case, and in fact neither is Smith's (Heresy, they shout from the sidelines).
Remember that we are running our research budget at maximum after entertainment for most of the game. In that case banks and stock exchanges will be drags on the economy rather than accelerants. The few turns when there is an exploitable gap between income and outlay will be not be worth the shields it costs to build those buildings. The marketplaces we have built are for the luxury multiplying benefit, not the commerce multiplying benefit.
Look back a few pages for my comment on value of universities. Outside the strongest commerce and shield producing towns they aren't worth the shields to build them as they cost a lot more than libraries yet offer no more benefit. Better to spend those shields on population enhancements in that case. If you need 10 net beakers at the anticipated budget level (slider setting) to justify a library you are going to need at least twenty net beakers at the same setting to justify a university. Not many towns outside the core will ever reach that level.
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