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Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. aprogressivist

    aprogressivist Chieftain

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    Are Stonehenge/the Sphinx (I use the mod) and the Pyramids supposed to require Marble to be built? Means you usually can't build them until you've built two quarries, which slows you down a bit...
     
  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    It effectively makes every wonder require Masonry, yes. But in my test games I've seen no recognizable disadvantage for both player and AI, and it's preferrable than seeing Chinese Pyramids in my eyes. The actual Pyramids were completely covered in polished white stones (not sure if it actually was marble), so it even makes sense historically.

    @Cethegus:
    Thanks, I'll definitely try some of them. :)
     
  3. jimmie

    jimmie Chieftain

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    quick question. Do i need BTS for this Mod?
     
  4. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    Very much so.
    ('Yep' alone is too short to post :rolleyes:)
     
  5. jimmie

    jimmie Chieftain

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    Thanks.
     
  6. jammerculture

    jammerculture Prince

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    Your mod is quite good, and to me plays the way I think this game SHOULD have been designed to play, so congrats. I have noticed a few bugs though, although they are minor. I am playing the latest(?) 1.3

    As the romans, checking the victory conditions for UHV the third condition (do not lose any cities by 1400) read as something funny, I wish I had written it down was something like romans_noturn. There was more to it but I didn't write it down I'm sorry.

    Also often when I get a new civic the description is all wrong. The latest one had serfdom giving me extra health which I was really excited about as I was playing babylon.

    I will try to pay more attention to these things in the future if it will be helpful to you. Please advise as I'd love to be able to give something back to this.

    Who needs CIV 5 if people like you keep impproving this game to the level you have.
     
  7. Wessel V1

    Wessel V1 Emperor

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    Nope.
     
  8. aprogressivist

    aprogressivist Chieftain

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    It seriously impacts certain strategies for the Bablyonians, however. Getting Stonehenge/Pyramids plus Oracle is one of the major strategies for them, but Bablyon have to rush for Writing first -- they can't afford to delay to research Mysticism + Masonry straight away like the Egyptians can.

    The Bablyonians usually require two Wonders to win their Culture UHV -- that or artists: they need to beat Delhi for Culture, as well as usually competing with Beijing for their population UHV (Delhi's easy to keep at low population if you declare war on them and harass them to stop them building farms, though it can still get quite big).

    My typical opening for Bablyon goes something like this: research Pottery -> Writing, then Mysticism -> Masonry. Normally this means I can start building either the Pyramids or the Sphinx/Stonehenge straight after I research Mysticism.

    With your scenario, I have to delay until after I've researched Masonry and after I've built quarries on the marble -- which has to be quarried first so even then I have to delay quarrying the stone to get the production boost.

    Meanwhile, the Egyptians will have happily teched Mysticism -> Masonry first as their opening moves since they aren't constrained by needing Writing and so will have a considerable headstart on this race.

    N.B. one other strategy was to get the Oracle for Code of Law, then use artists to win the cultural UHV. But since 1.186, I think you pretty much have to save the Oracle to get Monarchy first -- I don't think it's possible to get Monarchy through raw research or through a GP before the Persians spawn with it. So if India gets the Oracle, then you've lost.

    I will do more investigating when I get home today but as of right now I'm not really sure what Bablyon can do to win their UHV. Maybe make the Hanging Gardens available for them at Writing -- they'll be competing with that with the Chinese, but at least in that case it'll be possible for them to build it since I've never gotten the Hanging Gardens before China as Bablyon, despite them being my favourite Civ. (I'm a one-city challenge kinda guy!)
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    You should always be aware that I only made gameplay changes, without making the effort to update help text, civilopedia etc. accordingly. I figured that most people who load modmods are familiar with these kind of things and can do without.
    I'll apply this "polish" once I feel everything else is final.

    Good catch for the Roman text, though, I'll give it a look.

    The best way you can help me, by the way, is also the most convenient for you: simply play the modmod :)

    Those are all valid points. Would it help if I drop the marble requirement for Sphinx and Oracle while changing Hanging Gardens to Pottery + Marble (so effectively, Pottery+Masonry)?
     
  10. Deadly Virus

    Deadly Virus Chieftain

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    Uh, for some reason, this mod just isn't working for me. I load it up, go to the scenario select screen and nothing shows up. The scenario files are definitely there, I've checked. What's going on here?
     
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Did you try to start one of the scenarios directly? That means, doubleclicking at one of them in the PublicMaps folder?

    Checked it on normal speed and everything was fine. Did you play on Epic or Marathon?
     
  12. Steb

    Steb King

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    I experienced a weird situation in this mod: even though the civilopedia and the Corporation advisor both specify a small amount (5, I believe) of gold for each Oil resource consumed by the Oil industry, in fact, when spread in a city, it was something like 20 or perhaps even more per Oil resource. That meant a lot of money, and at 100% science I came to collect 10,000+ gold per turn as the Americans... This made the game rather easy (as I could by myself a whole army each turn). Although it is a formidable incentive to hunt for Oil, I suppose such a high amount wasn't intended.
     
  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Yep, I went a bit overboard with that one :lol:
    It'll be fixed next version.
     
  14. jammerculture

    jammerculture Prince

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    I was playing epic when I got the weird Roman issue

    I have been since playing Babylon, monarch, normal speed, and I think it is impossible to win the UHV. My original strategy was to Tech pottery >Writing, then go for priesthood for the oracle while teching monarchy and using the oracle to get code of Laws. i was unable to get this to work as I could not tech to monarchy on my own before Persia spawns. I then changed my strategy a bit and tried to slingshot monarchy. I tried this twice and still could not get it to work as I would have to get off cottage production in order to build a quarry. Using the whip or starvation to increase production would get me the techs and culture through the Oracle but then I lose the pop race. Teching straight through pottery > Writing, then beeline for monarchy then code of laws worked, in as much as I got the techs first but I lost in the culture race.


    So basically it seems like you can have culture or the techs but not both. The only thing that might change this is luck i.e. get writing from a goody hut.

    However, I wouldn't suggest changing the requirements for the wonders as I believe that the resource requirements give more to the game then they take away. Another possibility is the addition of a high commerce tile to the fat cross, possibly an oasis? I will try to add through WB to test if I can bring myself to play Babylon EVER AGAIN!!!

    Another idea would be a free worker spawning, or the ability to steal one early as the extra pop gained by not building a worker might push it over the edge.
     
  15. Omega124

    Omega124 Challenging Fate

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    Think of it this way. It's either that, or Dutch Denmark, as always.
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    I've never seen a Dutch denmark since they spawn in 1500 AD.

    I'm no expert to the Babylonian UHV, but aren't you building a worker at some point anyway? So the problem rather seems to be that you have to tech for Masonry and build a worker too early. I don't like to gift the player workers to help with the UHV, it somehow diminishes the challenge.

    Would Babylon still have problems if they wouldn't need marble for the Oracle and Sphinx?
     
  17. aprogressivist

    aprogressivist Chieftain

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    Actually, I usually build a Worker first thing as Babylon; I've never been convinced with strategies that involved building one later, as the only other thing you can build at the start are Warriors/Barracks, and that's a waste of production turns. Any later, and building Workers represents an opportunity-cost against more useful buildings and Wonders: basically, turns spent building Workers after you've researched Pottery/Writing are turns where you could have been building either a Granary (v. useful for the population goal) or a Library (v. useful for both the research goals and the cultural goal). After you've researched Mysticism/Masonry/Priesthood, any turns spent building a Worker are turns you could be spending building a Wonder.

    Giving Babylon a worker to start with frankly wouldn't do too much. It won't give them much of a head start on cottaging (you finish researching Pottery just one turn after you pop your worker on Monarch difficulty), all they'll be building at that time is either a Barracks or Warriors, and a few roads won't make much difference towards the UHVs. It does save on the food spent to build the worker, however, meaning Bablyon would grow to size 2 sooner and face less pressure on its population UHV.

    The Oracle isn't so much of a problem because by the time you've researched Meditation->Priesthood, you should have quarried both the stone and the marble -- or at the very least the marble. (Though I think you should drop the marble requirement on the Oracle just so that any Civ that wants to try for a Tech-specific strategy can have access to it...)

    I do think you need to drop the requirement on the Sphinx, however, and I would change the requirement on the Pyramids to just requiring stone. At least it means that if the Babylonian player knows he's going for the Pyramids, he only needs to build the stone quarry first.
     
  18. aprogressivist

    aprogressivist Chieftain

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    Let me revise my above opinion: giving Babylon a free worker at the start would have a significant effect in speeding up cottaging and quarrying, but only after the relevent techs are researched.
     
  19. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Exactly. If we could solve it without initial worker, I'd much appreciate it.

    Making Pyramids require stone is pointless, the whole reason for marble was to bar China from building them.
     
  20. aprogressivist

    aprogressivist Chieftain

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    Making the Pyramids require stone means that China has to expand to the east/south-east coast and research Masonry and then build a quarry on the stone... I'm inclined to think that if the Chinese can achieve this before both the Egyptians and the Bablyonians can, they kinda deserve them :D
     
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