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Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Oh, Big Ben's a good one. Late wonders are always appreciated, an England already was in need of a wonder "of their own"*. I will call it "Westminster Palace", though, to be safe from angry Brits pointing out that "Big Ben" is only the name of the tower's bell. ;)

    I wouldn't like to do that (those territorial UHVs often strike me as uninspired). Their score condition already incites them to expand, that should suffice.

    I was thinking of a condition that is more in spirit with feudal Japan, but the only thing associated with it I can think of is isolation. But because you don't have to actively do something to isolate yourself, it doesn't make for a good condition (see our current one).

    I would like something that prohibits them from expanding into China too early, because that makes their following game too easy and is ahistorical. A spontaneous idea for it would be:

    "Acquire more island cities than continental cities and keep them until XXXX AD"

    The Japanese main islands would of course be excluded, and the date directly determines the UHV's overall difficulty: the later, the faster Japan has to expand afterwards to get a high enough score. I'd propose something after 1800 AD.

    Oh, my bad. I totally forgot to do this before my recent release ...

    *Edit: it seems that the only civs left without their own wonder are
    - Persia
    - Japan
    - Vikings
    - Spain
    - Aztecs
    - Turkey
    - Inca
    - Mongolia
     
  2. emeralddude

    emeralddude Utopia?

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    For Spain, Turkey, and the Vikings/Sweden, RFC: Europe already has a lot of wonders (Shrine of Uppsala, Magellan's Voyage, Topkapi Palace, Kalmar Castle, etc). As for the others:

    Persia: I don't know much about Persia, so no idea.

    Japan: Himeji Castle? (Or some other samurai castle)

    Inca: Macchu Picchu? Nazca Lines?

    Aztec: Great Temple of Tenochtitlan? I think Tenochtitlan had a big altar in the middle of it.

    Mongolia: I don't think they built any wonders.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Turkey was wrong. I totally forgot Topkapi Palace is already in. :rolleyes:

    I actually have quite harsh criteria for wonders:
    - it has to be recognizable without having its location in its name.
    - no X's Y wonders. I mean those of the template of Magellan's Voyage, Leonardo's Workshop, Bach's Cathedral. That's what GP are for in Civ4.
    - it should be possible to give it an effect that's not achievable otherwise.
    - its effect should be linked at least remotely to its historical purpose.

    Not every civ needs "its own" wonder, I really don't want to enforce that :)
     
  4. TheCzech

    TheCzech Chieftain

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    will hellenism be put in? I feel the ancient world feels to "empty" without a religion (atleast in Europe)
     
  5. TheCzech

    TheCzech Chieftain

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  6. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    If Hellenism was meant to be put in, it would be there already because that's what the civic "Patheon" is there for. Hellenism is represented through other means without giving it more attention over any other mythology which works fine for an un-organized religion. Besides, everyone can use it without prerequirements.

    I don't know how you view things here but modmods aren't generally supposed to evolve towards any ultimate end. If you want one aspect of a mod, go play that one; if you find another that strikes your fancy or has some neat ideas, head that way. Each modmod has their own pros and cons but they shouldn't be expected to combine for one's convenience. It's just proper etiquette for modders not to steal each other's ideas, even if there was an audience it appealed on.
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    No, I won't add Hellenism. I agree with Cethegus here: every feature has its pros and cons, so there can be no "get one, catch all" modmod.

    Hellenism works very well in RFCC, because it allows to allocate Greek wonders in the Mediterranean much better than my marble solution does, and it synchs up nicely with Greece's and Egypt's UHVs.
    The reason it'll stay out regardless are
    (1) I want to stay limited to 7 religions, and I really don't know which one could be replaced
    (2) Making Hellenism a religion crosses a line. Why not make the Asgard pantheon a religion then? Or the Sumerian? Or Mesoamerican? Etc.
    (3) Hellenism is to much tied to, well, the Hellenes. I don't want to start making local or ethnic faiths "religions" in the sense of civ, that is, religions that overcome both regional and national boundaries. Judaism was removed exactly for that reason.
    (4) As Cethegus already pointed out, we have the Pantheon civic for that. Think of the Greeks running Pantheon as Hellenism believers, Phoenicia running Pantheon as worshipping Ba'al and Astarte etc. I agree that the civic is not very interesting now, and I'd like to expand it, but currently I don't know which effects it should have. It should be inferior to adopting a state religion once you get one.

    Thanks for the Constantine link. WHEN Byzantium will be part of this game, it'll definitely get at least Justinian, maybe also another emperor (Alexios Komnenos?) as leaderhead, and Rome will have Constantine instead.
     
  8. emeralddude

    emeralddude Utopia?

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    Yay! It's a WHEN, not an IF. I'm excited!
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Ah, you got the clue :)

    (the fact that Germans often tend to mix up these words notwithstanding :lol:)
     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    I implemented the new Greek UHV and played a test game. They are now much more challenging!

    I didn't care much for the overall UHV and clearly didn't optimize everything (I only wanted to test if the code works, so I still had the possibility to WB enough Hoplites in), but I even could've won it if India hadn't built the Oracle very early.

    Spoiler :


    As you can see, I also managed to control Persia and make Alexander's conquests complete. I'm currently considering to add Persia as requirement, too.

    By the way, don't mind Taoism in Ankyra. I just WB'ed Calendar in to know how much time is left, and completely forgot that China hadn't discovered it then. ;)
     
  11. emeralddude

    emeralddude Utopia?

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    What difficulty did you play that on? I can imagine that on Emperor that'd be near impossible to fairly hard, depending on how Persia progressed. It might be better to control some Greek colonies or Macedonia, or maybe make the Greeks spawn earlier.
     
  12. Omega124

    Omega124 Challenging Fate

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    Are you ever going to add my Copenhagen fix?
     
  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    That game was on monarch.

    I don't play emperor and have zero experience with it. Balacing the modmod for monarch will be enough work, and considering that many UHVs are nigh impossible on emperor, I don't think that's an issue.

    Which fix? Sorry, I must have forgotten something.
     
  14. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    Looks good. Running 100% science doesn't seem to be much of a problem?

    You might as well make add Persia to the mix. You can capture Babylon and Egypt easily with the Hoplites you start with and Phoenicia can't gain access to metal resources fast enough. Blitzing through to Persia, armed with melee UU, shouldn't prove to be too much of a problem. Don't know about Emperor though.

    Maybe Greece should have one of the easier UHVs? Oh, and did you use Autocracy from Parthenon?
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Thebai/Diospolis Megale spawned a great merchant during the game which I took to Rome for gold. That and much conquering easily allowed 100% research. I also didn't switch my government civic after Parthenon ... like I said, there's much that could have been optimized.

    I don't know if Greece should have one of the easier UHVs. I consider them and other easy civs as "learning civs" for regular RFC. Since modmods are usually played by more experienced people, I don't think a higher overall difficulty would be that bad.
     
  16. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    Should India be counted among the UHV then? Controlling the Alexandrian Empire isn't very demanding for the Greeks.

    Could you give your opinion of the new effects I thought for Autocracy and Totalitarianism? Autocracy as it was was too powerful compared to other government civics, Totalitarianism on the other hand too weak.
    Spoiler :
     

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  17. Omega124

    Omega124 Challenging Fate

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    That, when upon spawn, The Vikings will have one of their settlers moved from the giant stack and onto Copenhagen. Also, the CPU will randomly choose whether to have Copenhagen or Oslo as its capitol.
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    I'm still quite hesitant about giving the Vikings a special treatment. Also, I fear that it would bar Germany from settling the northern coast.

    @Cethegus:
    India is a bit much, I'd say (Alexander was stopped at the Indus, anyway). You still have to manage military- and wonder production and keep up your research while conquering Persia.

    Your Totalitarianism/Autocracy changes look very good! Did you keep the requirement techs the same?
     
  19. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    I know, but I think that the concensus is that each civilization's last UHV requirement should be a bit farther than they really got, even if it means stretching the civilization's limits.
    I'll give the Greek game a go sometime soon and see how it'll fare, maybe on Emperor too.

    Thanks! The idea behind them was to make them best suited for war, in practice, while keeping the Barracks' happiness. The techs stayed the same, even though I've personally always wanted to run a fascist society in the 1700's. Guess the most reasonable answer's to employ more scientists.
     
  20. aprogressivist

    aprogressivist Chieftain

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    I really like the way this modmod is going. Two thumbs up! :goodjob: :goodjob:

    I have a comment about the lay out of the changelog, however. I think it would be preferable to list the latest changes first here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14674

    In other words, I am suggesting that the order be reversed.
     
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