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Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    That's very odd, and I have no idea which change could have caused such a bug. I hope I find a way to fix it ...

    Yep, if both have Archery it's going to be tough to make it to Persia in time. What if Greece starts with, say, 2 Hoplites more?

    Do you have pictures of your British Empire? I'd love to see that.

    And what do you mean by balanced epic/marathon speeds?

    That's definitely not intended. Can someone confirm? I haven't even touched the related code which is strange.

    In my games, Germany never collapsed, even when seriously overexpanding into France and Scandinavia. That's because I increased its tolerance for neighboring cultures (just like Netherlands and Portugal), which I think will be removed again next time. Making an actual Prussia spawn at Berlin is a long-term goal (which is why I've already kept the area empty), but I can only implement that once I've figured out how to make one of those unused ancient slots usable.

    I'm not sure what you want me to do here. Do you suggest to move the capital west and still call it Bang Makok?

    You might be surprised, but I actually had that idea myself :D Though I'm not sure about Novgorod, because it would make St. Petersburg impossible. An independent Kyiv on the other hand, would also stop Germany from expanding to Ukraine or even Chechnya, which always annoyed me.
     
  2. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    I think he wants you to move around the resources in the Khmer empire : right now Bang Makok is on a sugar which is not very convenient.

    Do you still plan to include the Byzantines and Prussia in the long term ? I'm eager to see that ! :crazyeye:
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Ah, okay. I don't find it problematic to settle on sugar, but I guess that's personal taste. Let's see.

    About Prussia and Byzantium: I'm eager to see that myself, and I definitely want to do it, but I still have no clue how.
     
  4. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    Do you plan to have two seperate German civs (Austria and Prussia?) in the 600ad scenario? I saw an idea for that a while back, might even have been from you, and I thought it sounded really neat.
     
  5. jammerculture

    jammerculture Prince

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    ok finally managed to accomplish the new Greek UHV goal in time as I understood it to mean and it didn't work. I had the only city in Egypt, I had Tyre and Jerusalem and Persepolis and the UHV goal failed. I fear it is because you changed the Carthaginian core zone to fix the Roman UHV and now since I only had one of three Carthaginian cities it failed.

    Attached is my save.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Brew

    Brew Warlord

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    Sorry for the confusion; my Bangkok suggestion was to spawn where the bananas are now - the tile is already called Bangkok, and this allows room for Phnom Phen to be founded. I have no problems with settling on sugar either, but I don't like to settle on bananas.

    Also, what I meant by a Prussian spawn was just a predetermined respawn date for Germany, making sure their capital is Berlin instead of Vienna. I only played one game into the late game, but Germany did collapse in the 17th Century. I was playing on version 1.2 though.

    As for epic/marathon, I know the current version of embryodead's mod has way too fast of research rates; the American civs are always conquered in the early 1300's for example. Knowing this however, I couldn't resist trying an epic version of this mod, but had to stop when it became way too unrealistic. Embryodead is aware of these problems though and has promised an update when the final patch is (was) released, so I'm sure we can expect it any day.

    Lastly, I'm glad to see you didn't think the Kiev idea too off the mark. I must say though that as Russia I routinely found Kiev, Novgorod, and St. Petersburg and all turn out to be excellent cities. I suppose I change a lot of which tiles are worked by what city in the city screens though and certainly the AI does not do this. I've tried rearranging the resources in the WB to see how the AI handles it and it turns out quite well. This is probably too elaborate a change though - I can start to make my own grandiose adjustments instead once I get the hang of PyScenario.

    Thanks for listening Leoreth, and again thanks for all the hard work!!
     
  7. Aharon

    Aharon Chieftain

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    I started a game as America, and did have congresses. There's no bug to be found regarding that.
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    That's what I'm planning to do. I even have thought of UPs and UHVs respectively, but that won't implement it into the game sadly.

    It is now settled, however, that all additional civs will only become available for the 600 AD scenario. This is because I am going to use the slots of "dead" 3000 BC civs for them so that no one else has to be replaced. It's certainly doable, because that is how the Playable Byzantines modmod works. The only downside of this is that all civs whose slot I will use won't respawn anymore. But there are plenty of civs whose respawn doesn't make sense (Carthage, Maya, Babylonia), so I don't think that's a problem. And while I'm at it, I could even replace the slots of Rome, Persia, India etc. with later incarnations of their civilization like Italy, Safavids, Mughals etc. complete wit UHV and everything. Once I figured out what to do for one civ, I can add the rest with ease :)

    Wasn't able to look into your save yet. But is Persia collapsed or do you own more cities in Persia than them? Because it asks for "control".

    The Roman UHV fix is definitely not responsible for this, because I didn't change Phoenicias core, but rather used set values for CarthageTL and CarthageBR for their condition. They were conveniently already defined in Victory.py (I think a leftover frm vanilla times) which made things very easy.

    I also don't dare to touch bananas :) I have to look at South-East Asia to see if that is possible somehow. Having Phnom Penh would definitely be nice.

    I don't like to give certain civs benefits like guaranteed respawns, because that quickly opens a whole can of worms: should India get a 16th century respawn, should Rome get a Medieval or 1861 respawn etc. ... I think that if they should, then we can also make them whole civs with all appropriate attributes.

    Ah, okay, that's what you meant. I didn't have the time to start updating to current RFC, so I think I just wait for embryodead's epic/marathon version of it and do everything in one step.

    Baldyr would love to hear that! :goodjob: PyScenario is fantastic, sadly all my little spare time goes into this modmod so I didn't have the time to play around with it yet :)

    I expand exactly as you do, by the way (but are both Novgorod and St. Petersburg even possible? I thought they were on bordering tiles). But the AI never does, which I can understand given that it has a lot to settle in Siberia. I've already tried to encourage them to go for the Ukraine and keep Germany away from it, but it never really worked. Let's see what an independent Kyiv does to the dynamic.

    There's nothing to thank for. I only do this for the fun of coding and to fulfill my own dreams of RFC. That there's so many people who help me in this by reporting bugs or simply keeping up my motivation is what I should be thankful for :)

    Many thanks, because I would have no idea where to look for my error if that really had been a bug.
     
  9. fireclaw722

    fireclaw722 Imperial Guard

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    I totally agree with this, as I find it annoying to go into WB just to see where the British and French were at(and whoever else is around).
     
  10. emeralddude

    emeralddude Utopia?

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    For earlier civs or the Native American civs the map really isn't a problem, but Medieval European civs should have some kind of map left over from Rome. Civs like the Netherlands and Turkey should have an idea of what's going on around them.
     
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    I think I forgot to address that one. I agree that it should be done, and think its actually very easy to, say, reveal the NormalArea of each civ at start. *makes a note on the to do list*
     
  12. jammerculture

    jammerculture Prince

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    Yes Persia was collapsed, and India had possession of Lahore, which I think was theirs to begin with and is in India to boot. There is one other "Persian" city, Samarkand which is now independent.
     
  13. The Turk

    The Turk Deity

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    Can you PLEASE remove Taoism and change is with Confucianism! The coutnries of Mongolia, Vietnam (khmer) and Japan were heavily influenced by Confucianism, Japan and Mongolia adopted it, while Taoism is a local Chinese religion/philosophy, please change it, especially if you are trying to have a historically accurate mod!
    Thanks:)

    PS. I was just wondering why you moved the Khmer capital down to Bang Makok, which is Bangkok, capital of the Thai people, TOTALLY DIFFERENT! Please don't confuse the Khmer people and the Thai people, they are completely different. In your next version please change it back, and if you want switch around some resources so that Angkor becomes more appealing for the AI, if that is your concern.

    PPS. Why not have the Taj Mahal require Islam and Hinduism? That way, if the Arabs have not conquered Delhi or N. India in general, then the Taj Mahal cannot be created. In fact have you ever thought of having the late campaign start with Delhi being Muslim and Hindu?

    PPPS. I don't know who Elishat is, in fact I've never heard of the person, I'm generally VERY suprised you didn't add Hiram for the Phoenicians, when in fact, he was the most fabled KIng of Phoenicia, specifically Tyre, he is mentioned in the Bible quite a few times, and I know for sure there are already leaderheads for King Hiram out there, plus it would be much more accurate, to have 1. a Phoenician King and then 2. a Carthaginian General.

    PPPPS. Isn't Capitalism an economic system rather then a societal norm? I mean I think you should put Capitalism as a economic civic.
     
  14. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    aaaaaaah ! The Turk is back on the Taoism/Confucianism problem ! Another 5 pages of discussions on whether Taoism is a religion or not !

    About the Bang Makok problem, the reason for the new starting position is that it is a far better city than Angkor because of its access to the sea. but it's true that Leoreth could decide to make Angkor a better city, and to rearrange the resources in the Khmer empire.
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    First off: I'm not aiming for a historically accurate modmod. I think that accuracy is a great feature to have, but it should never become more important than fun and balance. That principle answers most of your points:

    1) Nobody was able to come up with another good Chinese UB yet, so I can't switch it back to Confucianism without having the academy twice. That topic really has been discussed to death: I know the cons, I've outlined my pros, and if you don't have a new argument, it'll stay Taoism, I'm sorry.

    2) Given the area the Khmer civ usually settles, I view them more as a stand in for various South-East Asian cultures. Angkor is bad no matter how you move the ressources around because it lacks a port which is crucial to proper expansion. If you know a Khmer city name for that tile, I'll gladly use it, but the Angkor tile won't return.

    3) Wonders can require only one religion unless I use more sophisticated means than XML. I also see no problem with it being built by, say, Khmer. If you've read my respawn concepts above, though, I can envision having India respawn as Mughals with many Muslim missionaries.

    4) Elishat is known in Greek as Elissa, who respectively is called Dido by the Romans (it's the name most know her by). I am clearly limited by the availability and quality of the leaderheads at civfanatics. The Dido one is very good, while the Hiram here is definitely lacking, especially compared to her.
    While Dido is a legendary figure, I don't see that as a problem, as Ragnar or Gilgamesh are as well.

    5) I said somewhat earlier that the social civics revolve around the question "who is the currently favored social class?". Capitalism means that power is held by those who own the capital. It's not really an economic civic because the term doesn't state how the government interferes with the economy.
     
  16. skipper21136

    skipper21136 Chieftain

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    Ok, so I have downloaded the file, and am able to load the mod, but I'm can't find the scenario to load!

    EDIT: Nevermind, figured out I put it in the wrong folder.
     
  17. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    Here's a more appropriate thread for you, Turk. No offense.

    link
     
  18. smile286

    smile286 Chieftain

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    Well, starting as France in 600AD scenario and what we seeing? Notre Dame is already have been build in Constantinopolis in 720AD...

    I think that is not right. World wonders, that required to be build by certain civ, should not be able to build by another civ, if that certain civ is not spawned...
     
  19. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Didn't Rhye prevent the Byzantines from building Notre Dame somehow? If yes, I seem to have disabled that, though again I can't imagine how.
     
  20. Theodorick

    Theodorick King

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    I am noticing starting at war with some civilizations is causing an unusual problem in lengthy, vassal heavy games. If person A makes person B their vassal, before person B has met person C--who they are at war with from the start--suddenly person B can't declare peace with person C, and person A is at peace with person C. The only way to fix this seems to be to declare war on person A or person C, which creates unnecessary wars just to fix a bug. If this is an AI only problem, person B and C will usually be at war for the rest of the game, until one side destroys each other, causing both sides to endlessly ask the player to join a war that will likely never end.

    I know these 'at war from the start' scenarios are realistic, but it's really messing up some games. I really hated it when I recently played as Rome, and ended up vassalizing half of the world, only to find my vassals helplessly at war with new civilizations--like the mongols--unless I started a world war just to declare peace.
     
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