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DCL evolution and proposition

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Acken, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. BruinBound

    BruinBound Warlord

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    I really loved deity+ and would like that to continue, all I'm asking for is 1 per month! 3 weeks is okay but 2 weeks is definitely too quick. By the time some of us find the time to play we already feel late for the party... everyone has already got to play with the toy and moved on to the next :(

    I do understand if other deity players do not like it, and having its own, separate challenge as Consentient suggested was a real good idea. GCL!
     
  2. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    I also have no problem with the timing spreading out a bit. If people can generally manage the current pace, no problem, but if delays are in the works, I'm all for it. Man, who'd have thunk having a job would actually limit my free time :D
     
  3. BruinBound

    BruinBound Warlord

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    I realize this may be a bit unclear, I actually meant one deity+ specific game per month. The other regular DCL games I'm assuming would still continue. Deity+ is the only one I will probably play so I don't care as much what continues to happen to the regular DCL games. I do actually feel like all of the DCL's are coming too fast and its hard to keep up with them, but since I'm not a regular and active DCL player my opinion should not matter for much. However, it is more difficult for me to be enticed to play a few of them when I see them popping up so quickly.
     
  4. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    It's very hard to find a scheduling frequency that can suit the largest number of people, but if it slows to once a fortnight again then more avid players like me can share standalone maps in addition. This was the idea behind Ottomania, and will be the same behind 'The Neutrals'. Watch my LP thread for details.
     
  5. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Let me revive this thread by asking a semi-important question.

    As many of you know, we're getting close to wrapping up the DCL in terms of different civs. Only Portugal, Japan, Korea, Austria and Shoshone haven't been picked yet and after that if the DCL is to keep going, there will be repeats obviously. What next?

    I'm against repeats tbqh because part of the fun of Civ5 for me was the variety despite having pretty much the same gameplan most of the time. I'd like things to move on to Acken's Mod, provided it's playable for the less elite players. Currently, I'm worried since Acken says he struggles on Deity and it's a rule of thumb that when something is difficult for the person who made it, then it will be about three times as difficult for everyone else
     
  6. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Well I'm not really for a complete switch over because I'm pretty sure there are still a lot of players that want to play the base game as is or just simply aren't interested in mods (or mine in particular). Also since my mod is not compatible with Linux and Mac it is not possible for those people.

    Like I said in another thread I have a pet project to propose maps on level 6 and 7 for the community. So this will definetly be an option for people interested. If the participation is good it will continue or increase in frequency.

    On the other hand it's been a while that I want to cut down the DCL to twice a month. The level of participation is rather low lately (well it's the summer). If it picks back up it may return to 3. My interest for playing the normal game also has decreased a lot so I currently really appreciate maps posted by other people.

    In any case the DCL will reach #43 which is still an achievement after that much time :)
     
  7. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Well the number of downloads per DCL map shows decrease since day zero but it's generally steady still so that's good. Most of later maps have around 100-ish downloads per
     
  8. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I am having so much fun playing the Mod right now its not even true. 'Vanilla' BNW seems crap by comparison, frankly. But I think a huge part of this is because its more fun to war. I think playing Turtlesaurus will be less fun, and all challenge without much in the way of new things to play with. We warmongers have a completely redesigned Honor tree which makes it probably the strongest of all starting trees now. You can tear through it in no time at all. If someone shows an LP of a Tradition-Rationalism SV on Level 6 or above which showcases something a bit more interesting than the standard SV, then I might change my view, but as good as the mod is, its a warmonger's mod in my view.

    Q1: What is the difference between the one I am playing and the 'full' mod? How much work would it take to standardise across the platforms? If this could be achieved by the end of DCL #43, I would be completely in favour of giving the DCL a respectful burial and having a community map-provided ACLU, or whatever it ends up being called.

    Well, if the DCL continues alongside the ACLU, I can tell you right now I'll be playing 90% ACLU. It's just heaps more fun.

    Might I suggest that there is a good argument here for a change of host? What if ST or Manpanzee or someone else takes over the DCL for the remaining 5 games while you (Acken) use the time you'll save to concentrate on getting a standardised mod for ACLU together, if such a thing is even possible?

    I can provide a fantastic map for Level 6 ACLU (Mac version) which I wrote to you about before, and I think that the combination of the NQ Pangaea plus + your mod has come around at the right time for me. I was really about to can Civ 5 completely but you have reinvigorated my interest in it no end. Merci beaucoup monsieur!

    I agree, and I would like to finish by thanking everyone involved: DingleBirdy (assuming he has recovered after falling through the earth's crust), Grendeldef, Acken, Stormtrooper, and the scores of players who have played a DCL game and submitted a finish.
     
  9. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    But were there not a few cooked maps? Venice of course, but I thought there was one or two others. Where there maps where people were disappointed because a UU was not unlocked? Non-OCC versions of Siam and Babylon might be worth trying too.

    I think it makes sense to wrap things up on a schedule rather than the DCL just petering out, but I am not convinced that hitting DCL #43 should be the last one!
     
  10. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    non OCC Siam is reasonable but a non-OCC Babylon is OP :lol:
     
  11. SooHongLoo

    SooHongLoo Chieftain

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    The DCL is a fun read at times but since it and the players refuse to make it more serious and structured it will not survive as long as the GOTM has. The best players that play Deity hardly touch it. I find that the great players who have the fastest finish times aren't even listed on the Holy Spreadsheet! (This is because of a minor detail of not completing five games.) I suppose MP has something to do with it as well to be fair.
     
  12. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Well since you like being confrontational, let me just cut you off by saying you're wasting your time. I don't care that the best Deity players don't play the DCL much, and it's not even aimed exclusively at them anyway. It's not about fastest times, it's all about different experiences and somewhat customized stories. Not all will be memorable but sometimes players experience stuff that's just too insane not to be mentioned. That being said, I might drop the List entirely and just do some other statistics.

    And all of that is unlikely to change as long as I'm doing anything about it. If it's gone and buried, so be it, none of us are making any money out of it anyway.

    I do agree on one point that's come across: it needs to be dialed down. IMO It should have been dialed down to at most 2 a month during the summer but ultimately I was in the minority so, eh
     
  13. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    For me, the laid back attitude of the DCL is its main appeal. I actually avoided the DCL for much too long because I was so put off by the rigid format of IV and V GotM -- and I just assumed that DCL was basically a Deity-only GotM. All my fault since I could have disabused myself of that notion so easily!

    In particular, with the GotM, you have “the great players who have the fastest finish” often just swooping in at the end of the cycle posting their files without commentary and claiming their badges. The names hardly change. I guess that works for the regulars, and I certainly have gotten more than my fair share of the archived files, but I don't think it is very open and inviting.
     
  14. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    If the GOTM posted Deity maps that were interesting on a regular basis, there wouldn't need to be a DCL really, but they only post 1 in 5 or 6 at that level, and those have all been really boring, IMHO.

    Fastest finish times are either for fun or for competition, and there isn't really any competition in the DCL, which is the way most people like it.
     
  15. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    This is the thing. The mac/linux version I'm making in parallel cannot use DLL changes and there are stuff that simply cannot be made without it. Here is the current full list which will grow in size with each versions:
    Spoiler :
    -Artificial Unintelligence integration
    -The reckless expander overhaul
    -The warmonger overhaul
    -The tech penalty change
    -No change to the deal AI
    -No partial counters for great persons
    -No change to CS borders/units
    -The fix of the white peace bug is not present
    -No change to the AI bribe mechanics
    -Other AI changes
    -Religious settlement and goddess of protection are unchanged
    -The following policies are unchanged (for now):
    Reformation
    Commerce finisher
    Religious tolerance
    Mandate of heaven
    Piety finisher
    Consulates
    Scholasticism
    Patronage finisher
    Merchant confederacy
    Artistic genius
    Fine arts
    Mercenary army (renamed Merchant dynasties)
    Treasure Fleets
    Great scientists and writers are not fixed

    The only thing I can do is provide another way of changing these policies or beliefs but all the rest is not possible.

    And as you will understand I'm not willing to scrap my work on the DLL.

    And the bad news is that the two versions are simply not compatible with each other. There is simply no way for me to make a map compatible with both (as long as one use a custom DLL)

    If someone is motivated to take over, please propose I am fine with it.

    Thanks :)
     
  16. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Oh well, that's bad news. How many players are there that play the DCL, AND have read this thread, AND wanna play the Acken Mod, AND use a Mac/Linux computer?

    Please PM me or 'sign' below if you meet these four criteria :D
     
  17. Nigel_Tufnel2

    Nigel_Tufnel2 King

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    My take - spacing out the DCL to 2x/month sounds good. I don't play them very much anymore, but often follow the comments. I agree with storm that the story-telling is half the entertainment. I will likely continue helping post ICL's, even with low participation, because that is the level I enjoy more.

    My main focus for a while has been Acken's Balance Mod, it really has some tremendous features! Depending on how he posts his maps, I may post a few at an easier level now and then. I am still fiddling with various opening branches, the flexibility is really fun. I have always loved Piety (for whatever reason the religion sub-game is very satisfying to me), and so I am in Heaven (pun intended).
     
  18. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    I havent red the entire thead but i m totally in favor of more original experiences through the dcl. More variety or chllenge in the game due to map specificity.

    Also, what about having a modded dcl that would change our habits ? I thought you were considering this using your mod ?
     
  19. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    It will happen, probably even next week. But more probable to be on DemiGod difficulty, at least until people tell me they find it too easy... It's in my opinion already harder than base game deity. Just want to be sure there aren't problems with the mod during the nex few days. So chop chop people test it :goodjob:.
     
  20. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I'm playing a game on Level 6 and its midgame is harder than Deity. Demigod is gonna be a tough challenge.


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