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December Balance Beta - December 3rd (12/3)
- Thread starter Gazebo
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Already fixed for next version.
The thing i'm noticing is that the AI in this last patch just LOVES to choose the Aesthetics tree, and it appears to be a good choice. The AI civs that choose it, inevitably end up as one of the top 3 civs, and get to choose an ideology many many turns before the rest of us. Looking through the tree, it seems ok...but the effects of choosing it, at least in the AI's hands, are incredibly powerful.
pineappledan
Deity
Also, I noticed a few weird things in the SQL:
Temple of Artemis, the Great Altar, and Hexxon Refinery only give its +15% production military unit production locally. This seems pretty terrible; are these not intended to be global?
Military academies give +15% production to land units locally. This is not mentioned in the help text or strategy for that building.
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civplayer33
King
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Hmm I also thought that the ToA and Great Altar would be global...Military Academies, on the other hand, I assumed to be local, but I never actually checked any of it.
civplayer33
King
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Well it seems a bit underwhelming then and, more importantly, considering that you can only build those things once in the world and therefore in only one city, it would be nice if the description added something like "[...] in this city" to make this clear.
XplosiveLun
A humble village
Are they already in top 3 before choosing aesthetics?
I don't think so, but not sure now that you ask. I believe that not long after they get halfway through asthetics they all get to top 3 positions, without fail.
Leondegrance
Prince
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I am also among those who thought Temple of Artemis is global.
But for Hexon Refinery. It cannot be global because it is Office related bonus.
pineappledan
Deity
That's my problem, more than it not being global. Unless otherwise stated, a bonus on a wonder is assumed to be global. I think it would make sense for the G. Altar and ToA to have global production boosts, but it would require a new table added to the DLL.
Re: the military academy, my problem is that the bonus to unit production is not mentioned at all.
Leondegrance
Prince
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I second that. More is desired on the accuracy of description and transparency. Doesn't hurt to say "+ 15% military unit production in the city it is built"
Not only in this case. But many descriptions are ambiguous. For a rich mod like Vox, such descriptions are lame and it is shame.
Describe them and make reports. Or change them yourself and merge them. Either way empty complaints aren’t productive.
G
Rekk
Deity
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I have been assuming wonder bonuses are global unless stated otherwise, specifically because there are wonders that do state that their bonuses are "in this city".
Phuc Nguyen
Chieftain
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As far as I understand, if the bonus goes with “cities” then it’s global, if it goes with “city” then it’s local. That applies to not only wonders, but also buildings like amphitheater, etc...
Rekk
Deity
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Yes, but wonders/buildings like Temple of Artemis don't mention "city" or "cities".
Txurce
Deity
FWIW, I've always known how ToA works, and accepted it as what it is: a strong Wonder. If somebody wants to polish the description...
pineappledan
Deity
Classic case is something like the Hanging Gardens. The food and the Garden are restricted to the 1 city. This is well understood because local yields are annotated in a universally recognizable way, and the free Garden explicitly says "in this city"
Temple of Artemis has a global +10% food, and then says "+15%
production towards archery units". This is difficult to understand because there are numerous policies and beliefs which provide bonuses to miliary unit production, and they affect the entire empire. Those policies do not explicitly say "in all cities" or "on empire", and neither does ToA. Furthermore, pairing the local bonus production with a global bonus 
food, and explicitly saying the food is global, but saying nothing about whether the production is local or global, makes a reader interpret both bonuses as global.In other words:
- This problem is specific to military unit production bonuses, because global bonuses of that type are given elsewhere using the same annotation
- This problem is exacerbated by the wording of ToA's other effect, which undermines a user's ability to comprehend the building as not being strictly a global modifier.
So yeah, at a minimum, the help text needs to be more clear. Knowing now that the bonus
production to archery units is only in that city, I would imagine that boosting that to +25% would be more than fair, but the global food bonus and free herbalist are what people build that wonder for.I opened a ticket 15 hours ago on this subject. Last time I suggested a minor change to the DLL I had to make the change multiple times because branches were merged out of order. Someone with more free access to the github should make the change, because that convinced me that making my own pull requests isn't worth the hassle, unless I'm going to make several changes at once.
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Leondegrance
Prince
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Whenever I can I try to report. I am not expert level so don't expect who knows what. Furthermore, I cannot report something if I don't have understanding of the underlying mechanics. And vice versa, I cannot have better understanding when the help tooltips are poorly written or not even writren for that matter.
Moreover, some of the underpinning mechanics like happiness is inside the code and unless you are a coder, well good luck to you. Your only hope is coming here and posting a question and hopefully you get a reply.
Like I asked recently how do sources of war weariness enter into the global war weariness provided it is capped at 20 % of population. Is it additive on top of the max 20 % ? We have something called "Ideological war weariness pressure". But how many people can assign a value to this source ? I guess very few can. You know why ? Because "ideological war weariness pressure" is not even described in the game help files.
In defense of the project, no doubt it is awesome and intriguing change from vanilla. It is community project, free, and lacks corporate resources and manpower to address all issues. A lot has been improved, the patches look better, but to a newcommer this may look outright scary without proper exposure into the game mechanics. Some of them abandon ship.
To put it in perspective and positive, a lot has been done in the mod. Now is the time to explain what has been done
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Whenever I can I try to report. I am not expert level so don't expect who knows what. Furthermore, I cannot report something if I don't have understanding of the underlying mechanics. And vice versa, I cannot have better understanding when the help tooltips are poorly written or not even writren for that matter.
Moreover, some of the underpinning mechanics like happiness is inside the code and unless you are a coder, well good luck to you. Your only hope is coming here and posting a question and hopefully you get a reply.
Like I asked recently how do sources of war weariness enter into the global war weariness provided it is capped at 20 % of population. Is it additive on top of the max 20 % ? We have something called "Ideological war weariness pressure". But how many people can assign a value to this source ? I guess very few can. You know why ? Because "ideological war weariness pressure" is not even described in the game help files.
In defense of the project, no doubt it is awesome and intriguing change from vanilla. It is community project, free, and lacks corporate resources and manpower to address all issues. A lot has been improved, the patches look better, but to a newcommer this may look outright scary without proper exposure into the game mechanics. Some of them abandon ship.
To put it in perspective and positive, a lot has been done in the mod. Now is the time to explain what has been done
I think you’re grossly exaggerating. But to each his or her own.
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