defence buildings

[bill2505]

i dont like the fact that every defensive building like towers do damage to plot next to the city.in real life the plot next to the city is a long distance.
my suggestion is this
for defencive buildings like mines or tower when someone attacks the city there is a chance that the unit will "trigger" the mines and get a semi random damage(minimum and maximum dmg based on building and unit power)

 

[BlueGenie]

There is something similar in some of the FFH modmods, defensive strike. Archery and some other unit types have a chance to damage an opponent attacking the units stack. Should be possible to do something similar for buildings.

Though that a city doesn't sprawl over into plots around it might not be true, at least in larger cities. The Graphics for cities, at least, show them as encroaching on adjacent plots once they've grown up a bit.

Cheers

 

[bill2505]

There is something similar in some of the FFH modmods, defensive strike. Archery and some other unit types have a chance to damage an opponent attacking the units stack. Should be possible to do something similar for buildings.

Though that a city doesn't sprawl over into plots around it might not be true, at least in larger cities. The Graphics for cities, at least, show them as encroaching on adjacent plots once they've grown up a bit.

Cheers

maybe but still in reality the distance is too long and what i suggest i thing is better

 

[Stormwind]

@BlueGenie
I think "Oppurtunity Strike" does what you are searching for, it can be enabled in the BUG menu (And allowing Archers in general to "bombard", this seems to be disabled by default).

 

[bill2505]

@BlueGenie
I think "Oppurtunity Strike" does what you are searching for, it can be enabled in the BUG menu (And allowing Archers in general to "bombard", this seems to be disabled by default).

oppurtunity fire is not the same as i suggest.opportunity fire happens to units that are near yout units plor not when they are attacked

 

[ClassicFrog]

I guess that one square would represent square tens of kilometres wide. Ancient and medieval weapons might have a range of few hundred meters and gunpowder based defences a range of few kilometres. No sane commander would order his troops to make a siege camp within said range. On the other hand stationing troops one tile away, like few dozens of kilometres away, seems to be quite silly way of conducting a siege.
Indeed in FFH mods there are promotions enabling defensive strikes, as BlueGenie said and if its possible to give buildings such effect it would be a neat solution. And then, each city has its defence rating. Perhaps 'building defensive strike' might be modified by that value to model overall density and sophistication of city defences.

 

[bill2505]

omotions enabling defensive strikes, as BlueGenie said and if its possible to give buildings such effect it would be a neat solution. And then, each city has its defence rating. Perhaps 'building defensive strike' might be modified by that value to model overall density and sophistication of city defences.

i dont agree with that and i will tell you why.for example walls ,in reality walls dont cause any damage but slow the enemy unless they have towers (which is representet by the tower buildings)
i think that we should add the defencive vallues only for buildings like towers(and artilerry towers of course) and mines and buildings like that.also the more enemy units attack you the damage is going to spread to all units(lower damage).this idea turns out to be good.good job boys i realy hope they add something like that.
edit= the only problem is that ai should learn to attack city with many units the same time otherwise all their units will be killed

 

[ClassicFrog]

Of course I didnt mean to make ALL defensive buildings have that ability. However overall defence rating of a city might represent how well SOME of defence buildings, like towers, are located and enhance their effectiveness. So going by your example, yes, a wall would not cause damage to advancing troops but if its a smart design (think Himeji Castle) it might lead them into bottlenecks where theyre easy target. In that way a wall would have a synergy with towers.

 

[bill2505]

Of course I didnt mean to make ALL defensive buildings have that ability. However overall defence rating of a city might represent how well SOME of defence buildings, like towers, are located and enhance their effectiveness. So going by your example, yes, a wall would not cause damage to advancing troops but if its a smart design (think Himeji Castle) it might lead them into bottlenecks where theyre easy target. In that way a wall would have a synergy with towers.

you are right but walls dont cause the damage even in that case. walls also give defensive bonuses to units when they are attacked no need to overpower them more

 

[Necratoid]

(Apparentl my last post went piffle)

Your not paying attention to the entire point of a seige. The point is to cut off the inflow of resources until you weaken or starve out the defenders. In order to do this you must be close enough to actually lay seige... that or your ringing the city at a distance that means your requiring hundreds if not millions or troops to encircle said city. Add in that the sight radius is based on sending out scoouts to map the terrain and the unit itself the core encampment... and staying all that far out of the range of the cities defenses makes it useless to even attempt a seige.

The only way the map scale would work in game is if you had to camp on the city square itself to seige it.

This kind of topic keeps showing up and all it ever says is you need to learn how to lay seige.... or that your a proponent of the percent chance to hit each unit method of defense damage dealing buildings... but the that means you would always take the damage when actually attacking. Which would make the fast moving attack and retreat method useless for no real reason.

 

[Rasma]

Anything a defensive building gives a siege weapon should be able to take away in my opinion, otherwise turtling becomes very frustrating to fight against, so perhaps keep that ability but have siege weapons like mantlets that negates or reduces the damage from the towers ect, Because really, the besiegers already are at a disadvantage with no roads, healing slower, and not having as good of an LOS

 

[bill2505]

i know how to lay siege.but what i suggest is more realistic and 10 times beter game wise.what i sugest is that buildings like towers dont give defencive bonus but attack the enemy as i have sugested.now every turn your units are attacked even if are kilometers away.with my suggestion that will happen only when you attack the city something that i dont understand whats the problem .
rasma the more units the enemy has the less damage they are going to take.now if they could make the siege weapons to have an effect here it would good

 

[bill2505]

i would realy like to hear the teams oppinion

 

[Necratoid]

Seiging a city IS a frustrating event of someone turtling like mad vs. someone attempting to unturtle them. This was the entire point of building the defensive equipment and fortifications in the first place.

The Black Death is thought to have come to Europe because of a turtling city with an unhindered port. The Muslem attackers got so frustrated by the Christian defenders and so plague ridden from camp conditions thaty the loaded the plague dead into catapults and bombarded the city. The results were catostrophic and enourmous amounts of people died as insidental casuallties.

I could go into the mechnics of that but I don't think its relivant.

The Modders have weighed in on this before... this is not the first thread on seige defenses. They aren't leaving and the only mthing I've heard about it is making the chance each unit take ambient damage is a percent chance.

In short... kindly go archive crawl for a response.

 

[bill2505]

Seiging a city IS a frustrating event of someone turtling like mad vs. someone attempting to unturtle them. This was the entire point of building the defensive equipment and fortifications in the first place.

The Black Death is thought to have come to Europe because of a turtling city with an unhindered port. The Muslem attackers got so frustrated by the Christian defenders and so plague ridden from camp conditions thaty the loaded the plague dead into catapults and bombarded the city. The results were catostrophic and enourmous amounts of people died as insidental casuallties.

I could go into the mechnics of that but I don't think its relivant.

The Modders have weighed in on this before... this is not the first thread on seige defenses. They aren't leaving and the only mthing I've heard about it is making the chance each unit take ambient damage is a percent chance.

In short... kindly go archive crawl for a response.

i prefer to hear this mods team about their oppinion.second who spoke of turtling?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Personally I love the defense buildings that do damage to units outside of the city. It really helps keep stacks of dooms from steamrolling every city. It can still be done but at least the AI or inexperienced players have a chance to survive if they build some towers or traps to defend their city.

 

[bill2505]

Personally I love the defense buildings that do damage to units outside of the city. It really helps keep stacks of dooms from steamrolling every city. It can still be done but at least the AI or inexperienced players have a chance to survive if they build some towers or traps to defend their city.

so you say no? or just express your oppinion.

 

[Hydromancerx]

so you say no? or just express your oppinion.

The feature was too strong when first implemented since it always did damage every turn, but now it it doesn't and its %. I think they are great and not going to change. If anything we will want to try to expand the landmine idea using Orion's Mine Warfare mod. That way you can place landmines and even naval mines to slow down your enemy.

 

[bill2505]

The feature was too strong when first implemented since it always did damage every turn, but now it it doesn't and its %. I think they are great and not going to change. If anything we will want to try to expand the landmine idea using Orion's Mine Warfare mod. That way you can place landmines and even naval mines to slow down your enemy.

if you are happy with this ok

 

[Thunderbrd]

We've floated some ideas as to how to make the system a bit more involved and complex, extending the range of some of the building effects, limiting some to water others to land, checking first against a chance for the building to damage a given unit in range or not and THEN inflicting a random amount damage between a minimum and maximum range but all this is going to require some more involved programming and none of us have gone out to do it yet given that the current solution to make it less lethal seems to be working sufficiently well for now.

What we currently have in place is perhaps not 100% ideal, but then, from everything I've read about your complaints, which has been very difficult to follow, from what I understand what you feel is 100% ideal and what the design team seems to feel is 100% ideal may differ greatly anyhow.