Defending Lt. Col. Duckworth

Why don't you try googling her name and read the Wiki article that makes it quite clear she is still serving in the Illinois National Guard?

And the partisan hypocrisy is quite obvious. It clearly has nothing to do with your latest pile of straw.

Good ol Form, always able to see hypocrisy even when none exists. :lol:

And Form, you might actuall try reading that stuff as well. She's no longer in the military, just as I suspected. :lol: From her Wiki:
Post-military career

Duckworth was fitted for prosthetics and is now fully mobile. She helped establish the Intrepid Foundation and is involved in its fundraising to build a rehabilitation center for other injured veterans.

Since you so often take me to task on meaning of words, I wont tell you what 'post-military service' means, but I'm sure you can look it up via google or wiki.

Btw, nice self-goal. :clap:
 
You obviously missed this part even though I pointed it out to you:

Service/branch Illinois National Guard
Years of service 1992–present
Rank Lieutenant Colonel
Do you really think the article in the OP was "lying"?
 
Mobboss as the article pointed out this isnt the first time this has happened. And hes not stopping either, Its kinda really strange to see you defend this guy when he went on CNN and continue the same line of attack.

I also find it very Ironic given how uh, upset and defensive you were in regards to your own military disabilities. Touching off sore points and all.

This week's comments were not the first time Walsh, a tea party Republican, has lobbed this type of criticism at Duckworth. His non-plussed discussion of Duckworth's sacrifice during an interview with Politico in March drew fire.

Walsh frequently makes news for his blunt remarks. In May 2011, he angered voters with an op-ed in which he stated: "too many American Jews aren't as pro-Israel as they should be."

Around that time Walsh also attributed President Obama's 2008 win to "white guilt" saying Obama being an articulate, black man made white voters feel better about themselves.

Last November, Walsh made headlines for issuing a tirade about financial regulation during a coffee meeting with constituents. "This pisses me off! Too many people don't listen!" he shouted at a constituent, physically moving to get in her face. "You don't have to scream at me, I'm not screaming at you," the woman replied, mid-rant.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS...tammy-duckworth-politicizes/story?id=16716799

"No, no, Ashleigh. No Ashleigh, this wasn't a slip-up. I don't regret anything I said," Walsh declared.

Banfield tried to read a list of things Duckworth has talked about other than her military service.

"No, she hasn't, Ashleigh. No, Ashleigh, no, she hasn't."

"Do you want to hear it, Congressman? Do you want to hear it, or do you just want to rail on me?"

"Hey, Ashleigh."

"I've got the list here."

"No, Ashleigh, Ashleigh."

Banfield read part of the list.

"Ashleigh, Ashleigh, Ashleigh," Walsh replied. "Hey, Ashleigh, Ashleigh, Ashleigh."

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/07/congressman_joe_walshs_ashleig.html
 
This is going to doom Walsh politically - and rightfully so.
 
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Duckworth will have th leg up if this is all the mental capacity that Walsh is armed with.
 
"Colonel Duckworth" sounds like a character from Duck Tales. That is all.
 
You obviously missed this part even though I pointed it out to you:

Do you really think the article in the OP was "lying"?

You know what Form, the wiki might be wrong there and you might be right. Although, I cant understand how the Illinois National Guard considers her fit for duty, as she plainly isnt according to regulation (AR 40-501 to be precise). Maybe they are just keeping her on for the PR benefit?

I think the article in the OP extremely one sided and quite biased. Like I said, Walsh is not helping himself by this but he did absolutely state he thinks she is indeed a hero for her military service. Thats clear context, with no need to broaden implication on anything else.

But you never did answer my question to you? Is her military service alone enough for you to vote for her?

FF, I'm not defending the guy, but from USA Today and CNN he didnt say what your OP says he did.
 
George Bush is not criticized for defending the skies of Texas from communist invasion while John Kerry is vilified for actually being a real war hero. GHWB is turned into a hero even though by some accounts he was just the opposite. John Kennedy is also suspect in this regard.
On what planet did these things happen?
John Kerry wrote his own awards, etc. That's not what a "real war hero" does.
Bush was certainly, and justifiably, criticized for his dodging active duty...

However, since you don't know about the military...
There were TONS of other places, besides Viet Nam, that military we sent, during that time.

I think GW was, in my opinion, dishonorable.
I'm actually surprised you attack him and exonerate Kerry... seeing as how you view Viet Nam as an immoral war, wasn't avoiding it a good thing?
 
You know what Form, the wiki might be wrong there and you might be right. Although, I cant understand how the Illinois National Guard considers her fit for duty, as she plainly isnt according to regulation (AR 40-501 to be precise). Maybe they are just keeping her on for the PR benefit?
Then are you going to "man up" and "apologize" for trying to ridicule me above while trying to play HR director for the Illinois National Guard?

I think the article in the OP extremely one sided and quite biased. Like I said, Walsh is not helping himself by this but he did absolutely state he thinks she is indeed a hero for her military service. Thats clear context, with no need to broaden implication on anything else.
You think Huff Post is "extremely one-sided and quite biased"? What a revelation. But what does that possibly have to do with this topic?

Were there any facts in the article which were false or even misleading, including the headline?

Here are his actual comments. Hear them for yourself:


Link to video.

But you never did answer my question to you? Is her military service alone enough for you to vote for her?
Is merely being in the service sufficient reason for you to vote for anybody? After all, they might even be a homosexual atheist.

FF, I'm not defending the guy, but from USA Today and CNN he didnt say what your OP says he did.
Please be specific. What exactly did you find in these articles which contradicted the facts in the Huff Post article or what he actually stated in the video above?

And you do understand the difference between a news article and an opinion piece, right?

Here's more ""extremely one-sided and quite biased" opinion from the same source:

Rep. Joe Walsh Is a Coward

Rep. Joe Walsh is a coward. Not because he's never served in the U.S. military, but because he's so egregiously picked on a woman who did, and who lost both her legs defending America's freedom. Freedom which gave Walsh the inalienable right to attack a true hero like Tammy Duckworth.

Duckworth is a 20-year veteran, earning the rank of Lt. Colonel. In 2004 her legs were amputated after the Blackhawk helicopter she was co-piloting in Iraq was shot down with rocket-propelled grenades by insurgents. The attack almost destroyed her right arm as well. She'd chosen to pilot helicopters because few other combat roles are open to women. It Her service earned her multiple military awards including a Purple Heart, an Air Medal and an Army Commendation Medal. She currently serves in the Illinois National Guard along with her husband, Major Bryan W. Bowlsbey, also an Iraq War veteran. She hails from a military family. She's a Daughter of the American Revolution and her father is buried at Arlington National Cemetery. Upon her return from combat she embarked on a mission to improve benefits for servicemen and women, serving as the Assistant Secretary for Public and Intergovernmental Affairs in the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and as director of the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs.

Walsh, who Duckworth is now battling for his Illinois 8th Congressional district seat, has never served in the military and has never done a single thing for veterans. But that didn't stop this Republican blowhard chicken-hawk from attacking her patriotism and impugning her record.

The Tea Party freshman, speaking at a Town Hall meeting in Elk Grove this week, called Sen. John McCain a "noble hero" because he was reluctant to discuss his military service while campaigning in 2008, unlike Duckworth: "Now I'm running against a woman who, my God, that's all she talks about. Our true heroes, the men and women who served us, it's the last thing in the world they talk about."

"I have so much respect forwhat she did in the fact that she sacrificed her body for this country," he continued, as he lowered his voice and leaned in dramatically. "Ehhh. Now let's move on....What else has she done? Female, wounded veteran ... ehhh."

This sort of ugly, reprehensible attack on Democratic veterans is nothing new for these Republican cowards. Remember Georgia Rep. Saxby Chambliss's despicable smear of his opponent, Rep. Max Cleland, a decorated war hero and triple amputee? Saxby never served either. He dodged Vietnam through student deferments and a medical deferment for bad knees caused by a football injury. And remember the swift-boating of John Kerry in 2004? His five medals and two volunteer tours in Vietnam's treacherous Mekong Delta was apparently less patriotic than George W. Bush's missing year in the Texas Air National Guard or Dick Cheney's five deferments.

There was a time when the uniform of the American soldier was simply green, not blue or red. Military service was sacred; highly revered and respected and 100% off-limits from political attack. But sadly that's changed. Politics has become such a filthy dirty business that nothing is off-limits anymore. It's in that now-acceptable framework that a coward like Walsh feels entitled and empowered to attack a hero like Duckworth. What's even more reprehensible is the fact that many Americans condone this shameful behavior and reward it with their votes.

Having recently celebrated Memorial Day, where we honor those who died serving in the U.S. Armed Forces, and in a week where we're commemorating America's independence, Walsh's smear of Duckworth is an especially cheap, detestable, contemptible attack not just on her but on the entire U.S. military and anyone who's honorably served and bravely defended our great nation.
Do you disagree with any of the opinions expressed in this article?

Or are you going to try to continue to rationalize the conduct of someone who also tries to impugn others' patriotism while parroting his own question concerning the supposed lack of qualifications of his opponent? Or do you think a woman who was a Lt Colonel in the military, and who was also the Assistant Secretary for Public and Intergovernmental Affairs in the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, as well as a director of the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs, is likely quite qualified to take the place of this hypocritical buffoon in Congress?

Again, what would your reaction have been if he had been a Democrat instead of a Republican?

However, since you don't know about the military...
There were TONS of other places, besides Viet Nam, that military we sent, during that time.
Sorry. You are going to have to clarify what this means before I can possibly respond.
 
Then are you going to "man up" and "apologize" for trying to ridicule me above while trying to play HR director for the Illinois National Guard?

You mean me giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying you might be right isnt enough?

Thats far more than you've ever done for me in our history of exchanging comments. And i'm not trying to play HR director, but I know military regulation - I even cited those as proof when you asked for proof. Someone high up the chain must be giving her some type of exception to policy for her to still be in the military - or are you under the impression that a disabled, double amputee pilot is still able to fly helicopters or perform other physically related military duties?

You think Huff Post is "extremely one-sided and quite biased"? What a revelation. But what does that possibly have to do with this topic?

Already addressed; and i'd be really surprised if you disagreed with me that huffpo is biased.

Were there any facts in the article which were false or even misleading, including the headline?

Not entirely, but he didnt say directly that she wasnt a hero. But he is a dumbass for taking the track he is, and he is obviously paying for it. And rightfully so.

Is merely being in the service sufficient reason for you to vote for anybody? After all, they might even be a homosexual atheist.

Nope. Unlike you, I dont mind answering simple questions. And fwiw, the odds of them being a homosexual atheist are probably pretty darn low right off the top.

Please be specific. What exactly did you find in these articles which contradicted the facts in the Huff Post article or what he actually stated in the video above?

He never directly called her not a war hero. What about his clarification in which he does directly confirm her as a war hero? Is that to be ignored totally?

And you do understand the difference between a news article and an opinion piece, right?

I know its hard for you, but could you at least try not to be so childish? You know I do.

Here's more ""extremely one-sided and quite biased" opinion from the same source:

Do you disagree with any of the opinions expressed in this article?

They are in a political race against each other, so 'picking on her' is to be expected. What, do you think she's not tough enough to take it? Our should we treat her differently simply because she's a woman and disabled?

The true hypocrisy here is on the left where they will castigate Walsh for doing this, while justifying such attacks on women on the right, such as Sarah Palin. Where was the outrage on huffpo when people attacked Palins children?

Or are you going to try to continue to rationalize the conduct of someone who also tries to impugn others' patriotism while parroting his own question concerning the supposed lack of qualifications of his opponent? Or do you think a woman who was a Lt Colonel in the military, and who was also the Assistant Secretary for Public and Intergovernmental Affairs in the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, as well as a director of the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs, is likely quite qualified to take the place of this hypocritical buffoon in Congress?

Why do you refuse to acknowledge his clarification? His problem isnt her military service, his problem is that he thinks thats all she is running on. Now I think he's stupid for the way he is handling it; very stupid; but I wont pretend to know anything more than whats been presented in this thread and in a couple of other news stories i've read, like qualifications and such.

Again, what would your reaction have been if he had been a Democrat instead of a Republican?

I'd be the same.

Sorry. You are going to have to clarify what this means before I can possibly respond.

He means you dont have to serve in a warzone in order to have honorable service.
 
You mean me giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying you might be right isnt enough?
After launching into yet another silly tirade that was clearly attempting to ridicule me?

Thats far more than you've ever done for me in our history of exchanging comments. And i'm not trying to play HR director, but I know military regulation - I even cited those as proof when you asked for proof. Someone high up the chain must be giving her some type of exception to policy for her to still be in the military - or are you under the impression that a disabled, double amputee pilot is still able to fly helicopters or perform other physically related military duties?
You don't appear to know much at all about the policies of the Illinois National Guard unless you can prove all these sources which have been posted that claim she does indeed still "serve" are wrong.

Already addressed; and i'd be really surprised if you disagreed with me that huffpo is biased.
Yet it clearly has nothing to do with this thread.

Not entirely, but he didnt say directly that she wasnt a hero. But he is a dumbass for taking the track he is, and he is obviously paying for it. And rightfully so.
And yet you won't vilify and condemn him as you would any Democrat. Why is that?

He never directly called her not a war hero. What about his clarification in which he does directly confirm her as a war hero? Is that to be ignored totally?
He clearly insinuated she was not a "true hero" like those who aren't running for office so they have no reason to mention their qualifications, and that her only supposed qualification was serving in the military which you are still parroting despite her holding important positions in the government while actually advocating veterans benefits.

I know its hard for you, but could you at least try not to be so childish? You know I do.
As you obviously were above in the first post on this page? So the word "hypocrisy" really doesn't have any meaning with you.

You were trying to compare an opinion piece from Huff Post with news articles from CNN and USA Today that you claimed disputed the facts in that article. And you still haven't provided any proof they did. Now why is that?

The true hypocrisy here is on the left where they will castigate Walsh for doing this, while justifying such attacks on women on the right, such as Sarah Palin. Where was the outrage on huffpo when people attacked Palins children?
You mean the ones who were deliberately placed in the limelight so a clearly unqualified bimbo might even become the president if an elderly man died? Even Fox News attacked Sarah Palin for clearly being unqualified to hold any major political office.

There was no "hypocrisy" there. You continue to misuse that word as you did above. There is clear hypocrisy for attacking any Democrat who would make any comment like these while not doing so with a Republican who did the same thing.

Why do you refuse to acknowledge his clarification? His problem isnt her military service, his problem is that he thinks thats all she is running on. Now I think he's stupid for the way he is handling it; very stupid; but I wont pretend to know anything more than whats been presented in this thread and in a couple of other news stories i've read, like qualifications and such.
Why do you think that is even credible? Why do you "pretend" it likely is?

I'd be the same.
And yet it clearly isn't. There isn't a single Republican in this forum who has posted outrage in this thread about the conduct of a man who is clearly not fit to be a congressman. Instead, you are actually trying to rationalize his comments.

Why won't you "defend Lt Col Duckworth"? Because she is a Democrat instead of a Republican?

What Joe Walsh Needs to Know About Tammy Duckworth

Walsh has argued that by repeatedly invoking her military credentials, Duckworth toots her own horn too much, which means she's not a "true hero." "My God, that's all she talks about," he said recently on CNN. "Our true heroes, it's the last thing in the world they talk about. I have so much respect for what she did in the fact that she sacrificed her body for this country. Ehhh. Now let's move on."

I profiled Duckworth in my recent book, Rebounders: How Winners Pivot From Setback To Success. I thoroughly researched her story and interviewed her personally. Here's what Joe Walsh and any other critics of Duckworth ought to know about her.

First, Tammy Duckworth is not necessarily a hero just because she agreed to serve in uniform, or because her chopper got shot down by a rocket-propelled grenade her crew never saw coming. The rate of military service in the United States is so low that many people reflexively assign the "hero" label to servicemembers simply because they volunteer for duty that most Americans would prefer to avoid. Whether he realizes it or not, Joe Walsh has tapped into a kind of unease many people feel about the diluted meaning of heroism these days: Among other things, military service is a profession that is inherently no more heroic than nonprofit work or ethical forms of business that help people earn a livelihood.

True heroism is reflected in the way people respond to adverse circumstances, including life-threatening ones. So if Walsh wants to determine whether Duckworth is a genuine hero, he might consider what she did after her legs were blown off by the RPG Iraqi gunners fired at her chopper on Nov. 12, 2004.

By the time the grievously injured Duckworth made it to an emergency room in Baghdad, she had lost so much blood that medics were surprised she was still alive. A few weeks later, the army official who had been running the ER when she arrived tracked her down at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., where she had been transferred. Duckworth didn't remember him, but he had a vivid memory of her. "You were propped up on one arm, saying, 'I want the status of my crew. How are my men?'" he told her. "I just wanted you to know that."

Duckworth battled many moments of despair. But she avoided prolonged self-pity by recognizing that there was always somebody else at Walter Reed who was in worse shape than she was. She also learned to use humor as therapy, wearing T-shirts, for example, that read, "It's just a flesh wound," or "Lucky for me, my husband's an ass man."

I didn't include Duckworth among my "Rebounders" simply because she survived severe injuries. She made the cut because of something more extraordinary -- she found a way to turn profound adversity to her advantage. That makes her a model for other people suffering hardship. Being forced to recover from an extreme challenge amplified Duckworth's sense of purpose. "I was always about other people's approval," she said of herself looking back, before being shot down changed her life. Afterward, she said, "I had a new sense of fearlessness, because even on my worst day, nobody was shooting at me."

That fearlessness led her into politics, and her first run for Congress, in 2006. She had always feared rejection, and when she lost, it felt crushing. Then, a few days later, it was Nov. 12 -- her "alive day," two years after she had lost her legs in the 2004 attack. She spent the day in St. Louis with her former crewmates. The shock of losing the election quickly faded.

Once again this year, Duckworth's alive day will come a few days after a Congressional election she's running in. By then, voters will have decided if she's enough of a hero for them. "I earned these wounds because I served my country," Duckworth told me when I interviewed her. "This wasn't an accident. I didn't get drunk, drive down the road, and crash into a tree. These wounds are the equivalent of wearing a medal on my chest." Joe Walsh may want to find something else to criticize her for.

Duckworth defends military talk on the campaign trail

Hitting back, Duckworth maintained that she discusses the issues "a majority of the time" and argued instead that Walsh was trying to "distract" voters away from his record in Congress.

The two candidates are fighting for a seat representing the new 8th Congressional District located outside of Chicago and created by the state's recent redistricting process. It's widely expected to vote Democratic in November.

Duckworth said she hopes more veterans will abandon any stigma that may come with talking about their service, arguing it could help make them more marketable in the workforce.

"They need to talk about the leadership skills they learned in the military that will make them better employees," she said. "They need to talk about the fact they were able to accomplish really tough missions under really extreme conditions."
I hope you don't decide to run for political office against someone so cowardly that he criticizes you for speaking about your qualifications you think you have from serving in the military. It is no different than Romney claiming that being a successful businessman makes him qualified to be president.
 
You don't appear to know much at all about the policies of the Illinois National Guard unless you can prove all these sources which have been posted that claim she does indeed still "serve" are wrong.

If you had clue one, you'd realize that the Illinois National Guard is still subject to Army Regulation, and National Guard Regulation (NGR). Exceptions to policy exist in just about everything, but in todays drawdown envirionment, just about anyone that has even a minor health issue is being separated from service. She obviously has a host of physical limitations that would prevent her from being fit for duty and thats plain from AR 40-501 (medical fitness standards).

Form, perhaps you should get more consistent on this issue. On one hand you get really upset about the 'welfare' of keeping soldiers on a payroll, but here is this woman who by all rights should be medically discharged, and you defend her being in the service. Do you think she can pass a physical fitness test in her condition?

Yet it clearly has nothing to do with this thread.

It does if the story in the OP shows said bias. Which it does.

And yet you won't vilify and condemn him as you would any Democrat. Why is that?

Because i'm mature enough to understand what the man is saying and also that he never called her not a true hero, and even issued a clarification stating that he absolutely does consider a hero.

He clearly insinuated she was not a "true hero" like those who aren't running for office so they have no reason to mention their qualifications, and that her only supposed qualification was serving in the military which you are still parroting despite her holding important positions in the government while actually advocating veterans benefits.

Pertinent word highlighted. I dont think his intent was to imply she wasnt a true hero at all, and her certainly didnt do that directly, and in fact once that 'insinuation' was mentioned he clarified his thoughts clearly.

Form, did he or did he not directly say she is indeed a war hero? Yes or no?

As you obviously were above in the first post on this page? So the word "hypocrisy" really doesn't have any meaning with you.

Nice irony there.

You were trying to compare an opinion piece from Huff Post with news articles from CNN and USA Today that you claimed disputed the facts in that article. And you still haven't provided any proof they did. Now why is that?

'Cause I dont have to just to please you, thats why. I did go read additional articles in reference to the story. Hell, I thought you'd be glad I didnt use Foxnews.

You mean the ones who were deliberately placed in the limelight so a clearly unqualified bimbo might even become the president if an elderly man died? Even Fox News attacked Sarah Palin for clearly being unqualified to hold any major political office.

I think criticism of her qualfications perfectly legitimate. What wasnt was the attacks on her family, her kids, her faith, and a whole host of other things that were just as wrong as what is being done in this story.

There was no "hypocrisy" there. You continue to misuse that word as you did above. There is clear hypocrisy for attacking any Democrat who would make any comment like these while not doing so with a Republican who did the same thing.

Nice double standard there Form. Very nice indeed.

Why do you think that is even credible? Why do you "pretend" it likely is?

Well, it doesnt contain an ounce of insinuation, planned or not planned; so why shouldnt it be credible?

Look, I dont think this guy is being smart; but the worst I can accuse him of is being a dumbass for choosing the way he is pursuing his election. You feel differently. Imagine that.

And yet it clearly isn't. There isn't a single Republican in this forum who has posted outrage in this thread about the conduct of a man who is clearly not fit to be a congressman. Instead, you are actually trying to rationalize his comments.

Why be outraged? Do you get all frothy mouthed any time any says something stupid? I guess everyone needs a hobby.

Why won't you "defend Lt Col Duckworth"? Because she is a Democrat instead of a Republican?

I did defend her. I said she absolutely should use her military service to her advantage as long as she adheres to military regulation in the course of that. Good for her for making it hard on her opponent to counter her strategy. If the guy isnt smart enough to figure it out then he doesnt deserve to win. Simple.

But him being stupid doesnt make him Satan. It just makes him stupid.

I hope you don't decide to run for political office against someone so cowardly that he criticizes you for speaking about your qualifications you think you have from serving in the military. It is no different than Romney claiming that being a successful businessman makes him qualified to be president.

So now you think military service is great for being qualified to hold office. Man, so much for consistency.
 
I support that motion.
 
Back
Top Bottom