At a turning point in the game now, if someone wants to take a look he is more than welcome
Lots of decisions to make now, i didn't do any city management this turn yet so it looks like a mess, had to squeeze out the very last beaker and gold to finish maths and 2 cities even had to go into shrink mode
Spoiler:
So i teched maths, traded it to Monty for IW and my theory with the coastal city was confirmed - i settled right on iron
I didn't want to settle closer to Boudi (aka the tundra) to avoid more heatening, getting -1 already because my capitol borders cross the ones of Gergovia for tiles that noone can use anyway
I might even give her the gold for 4/turn right now, the gems and the wine kind of fix the hapiness problem.
Maths to Boudi for 3 small techs + 40 gold. This was nice, but look what Sitting Bull did, he slipped through my borders that closed 2 turns afterwards with a cultural expansion
Not much i can do here, open borders to him are a bit out of question because Boudi hates him, maybe if i *still* can't get any trade routes after sailing i will open them anyway as it is getting annoying.
So i think sailing now is a no-brainer, all AIs got it from SB but i can't cuz he has no Alphabet.
I can finally build axes now, the cities can grow, gems will be there shortly and so is wine from Monty...who declared on HC.
I can't think of much to do with that situation diplo-wise, as it looks i need open borders to HC, if i don't i would stop all deals with him as he is most likely dead.
That is something i could use some tips on, the trade routes, i really thought the road to Boudi would fix this about 1000 turns ago
Iam almost at the point where i think the road was not enough from Heliopolis, but i could swear the routes have been there for a turn or 2...
Will it be ok with sailing, what should i explore besides the southern sea route to Monty? (which is annoying with all the mountains piff...) Send a 2nd chariot down there?
Uh umm, quick question...i usually play with tech brokering off, while planning my next steps it crossed my mind that it is a bit odd that noone can trade sailing.
Can that be cuz i got fishing this turn, and it needs 1 turn to unlock?
I surely won't play on till i get a hint, or i might waste 1 turn of research as i still got maths for Sury
While we successfully captured mercury and crystal mines we still luck ore. So I ordered to my mighty Krag Hack...
Um no ...Ordered to my gentle but brave Hatty to do the same dirty trick:
Spoiler:
and
Making him pleased and opening borders.
Next turn:
How could you not guard my gift?! With this attitude, Toku, don't expect anything from me!
Traded Aest for for Alpha and IW. Backfilled cheap techs and brokered Monarchy. Unfortunately these jerks don't want trade Math around .
Elepulting Boudica start looking problematic. I need Math - Construction and HBR. Which will take ages even if I skip Lit. (I have a decent chance for Great Engineer from Mids).
I see people looking for advise so I will take a look at saves. May be will come up with something. If anyone will do same favor to me it would be greatly appreciated.
I pretty much hung around till Aestetics (the GS looking pretty on the road has nice symbolic character, i just didn't know what to do with him...no city has the science to make an academy really worth it), traded Aest. to Boudi for 150 gold, Priesthood and Poly which i really needed, and to Surey for Monarchy.
Now i moved 4 of my way not enough 6 workers to HQ like a nutshell to chop out TGL and NE, the other 2 might help with the Pantheon. I really need more workers to get some of those cities going, but i couldn't decide where to build them till now.
But if noone does a surprise DoW i should be fine, Milady Boudi still only +2 after all i did for her sigh.
thought to give the map a quick shot... ...turned out to be a really interesting and different game... ...and i have to admit it was the first time for me having a 2 front war in the early bcs on deity in a non aw game (without giving up that is)
Spoiler:
first, i find bull like really, really close by (settled capital next to the river to get the fps in bfc... ...found corn, nice View attachment 282422
my warrior heals near bulls borders from a nasty lion bite, when a lonely worker comes around... ...... ...having played mainly aw games lately, i dont fear no bull nor deities and decide to hire the worker for hatty
...
manage to get 2nd city up near the horses in time and get some warchars out (maybe the best uu in the game btw). bull settles nearby, on flat land... ...mistake my friend, mistake View attachment 282423
bull kept sending reinforcements in, i kept killing them. the warchars even kill the prot archers in the city at amazing odds and i get a first gg, which gets settled
...
after healing and building some more warchars, i invade bulls land. seeing his weakly defended cities (he has 2 cities, each defended with some 5ih units, a weird mix of archers, dogs and chars) i stop building warchars (have someting like 12 at this point) and assume i have bull killed...
boudis first stack, and whats left of my invasion force on bull... View attachment 282428
9 units for boudi, 8 for us... ...an the capital is building a library at the moment... ...this i call "beeing caught by surprise"... ...man, i feel like the friendly neighbourhood ai beeing riflerushed
so we decide on 2 things:
1. it might be best to accept a peace deal with bull
2. it might also be a good idea to build some more units... ...and having the option of buiding a) warriors and b) warchars, i opt for... ...well, i guess its obvious...
boudi beeing the scoreleader and beeing the leader in power and such didnt expect big resistance i guess... ...well, she was wrong
i might have mentioned it before, but warchars are prob. the best uu in the game (they also ignore first strikes btw). to stop axes, swords and spear on flat and open ground all you need are warchars. having a gg settled and getting them all with strenght 1 and shock also helps. even on spears you have something like 30-40% odds (including retreats), so i managed to keep a kill ration on boudis troops of someting like 3:1 in my favour for then next 20 turns or so and didnt loose any city...
...which still wasnt enough for her to accept a peace treaty without demanding a city from me
...
but at least i managed to spare some units from the front at a certain point: View attachment 282429
and took a barb city (i even started to settle some cities during the war...)
...
and i managed to raze a newly found city from boudi... ...making me 100% sure she would accept peace now without demanding a city from me... ...guess what, i was wrong... ...stupid ***ch
some turns later, boudi resettled said city, and i razed it again... ...still no peace for me...
4 spears with 2 promos and some other stuff, this time approaching a helper city via hills. if they would have come for the capital like every time before, crossing the open fields, i guess i would have kept fighting (12-15 warchars with quite some promos would be enough again...). but down there and on a hill... ...no way to stop them...
i give in and boudi shall have her city, may she die from it (later it turned out i should have founded it 8 from the spot where i founded it, cause boudi squeezed in another city near my border)
still having an army hanging around and beeing basically broke (loosing gold at 0% reserach), i decide to hit a bit more on bull... ...so far, the plundergold was all that kept me researching and i managed to reach aest somewhen around 800 bc, netting me some nice trades and even some money (surfer already had currency)
...but no, he somewhen founded another city, near tokus border... View attachment 282438
...which i also razed. i lost all but 3 warchars during this fights, rng wasnt a big friend this time, fighting was like 1,5:1 to bulls favours (cg3 archers are ugly, and when you attack at around 20-25% odds and dont even damage the first archer the first 3 tries in both cities, you somehow feel the pressing urge to throw your computer out of the window (without opening it))
...
but things eventually got better after bull was no more and we even got the glib: View attachment 282439
so far, no gp has been born, cause the warring business dindt really help in breeding a gs... ...but first gs should be in around 1 ad.
civil service gets discovered 75 bc, we switch to bureaucracy and i call it a day. overview over hatty-land: View attachment 282440
8 cities and 6 of them are really, really nice. boudi is in a war with monty and tofu is so backwards that we could pratically invade him with warchars and a few cats... ...game should be won at this point.
borderland city to boudi and home of the glib: View attachment 282442
another nice hybrid city
ex bull capital: View attachment 282443
not much to say for this city... ...with moai it will be a production and food powerhouse
and the capital: View attachment 282444
drowning in food, but very low on production. but 13 cottages and 10 riverside tiles are also something... ...add an academy, some settled gs and oxford... ...yumyum
Have found clue after the brake. I simply don't use my Mids to full extent! Whipped/chopped libraries everywhere and run scientists everywhere even with food deficit.
Declared at 100AD.
Captured city with 2 cats loss and guess what?
Traded Music for Theology and switched into Theocracy same turn.
This war going to be hard, I will need these promotions.
Looking at your save - you might want try kick some AI's ass right now. 5 cities means you technically ok, but it will not last long. If you don't cripple neighbors they will run away.
Boudi and Surferman both went into weoooo (Toku peace vassaled to Surey too..) and they asked for Code of lols. Was ok timing, worth to give up a cheap tech now let's see who their victims are.
Boudi finally spread Hindu to me and i converted. On a good way to friendly with both now, the crappy fish city will whip out a missionary and so is the ex-barb city. I want Hindu asap in all relevant cities, and mainly the Capi for pacifism during GA.
GA in 4 turns, iam preparing for it, 1 turn ago i temporaly picked up Org. Religion to build the missionaries. The switch to Pacifism, Bureaucracy and Caste will all happen in 4.
Should be some nice GS creating in HQ (used one to bulb Philo, 1 still waiting), i need Paper Education and 1 Academy for Memphis which will be Oxford city..give me moooore
900 B.C. I'm reluctant to play further because...
The Fear is striking me :
Spoiler:
Opening move :
Settled the Ivory for +1 production and faster settlers. It would also save some research turns (I still don't have Hunting). In retrospect, it may have been a bad move : it looks like I will be hurting for commerce for a long time.
Meeting plenty of neighbours early suggested a REx. However I failed miserably at blocking land from Sitting Bull
--> AH --> BW --> Pottery --> Writing.
I'd have liked to delay BW (didn't whip a single item, maybe a mistake ; I managed to chop some trees, though) to get an early Pottery but I felt hard pressed land-wise.
--> Settler @ size 2, Worker @ size 2, Settler @ size 3 then I can't remember :
Spoiler:
Sitting Bull stealing our land :
4th city. This one blocks land a little from Boudica :
After Writing, I started plenty of Libraries and put research points into Alphabet, 1 by 1. When the Library was completed in Thebes, I switched to Mathematics.
EPs are focused on Boudica (very advanced, neighbour, pleased status, score leader) who skipped that tech.
Huayna Capac and her are the only AIs with Alphabet for now and Capac also disregarded Maths.
Research was left at 0 waiting for the first GP.
Begging Fishing / Mysticism from Boudica will grant me a free tech, I hope.
Meanwhile, I could settle a few other spots that will spark tensions with Boudica. And maintenance is scary.
11 gpt for units, 24 gpt for cities (7) and 10 gpt for civics. I'm not in Slavery to save some gold.
I have also laid down some cottages but what is really needed is Iron Working to work the 2 gems in the north.
I also started on Libraries before Granaries, more often than not, due to being Creative and fighting for tiles.
In an attempt to please my neighbours, I converted to Hinduism.
The downside is that Montezuma, Suryvayarman and Tokugawa are annoyed with me. Bleak
I don't mind Toku being annoyed. Since he doesn't have open borders with Sitting Bull, I have a buffer.
I haven't located Montezuma and Sury, though, but I suspect they are "behind" Boudica and Huayna... with whom they have open borders.
Because Deity AIs seem to enjoy warring in the BCs, Boudica, Huayna and Tokugawa have enough on their hands. I seriously hope I have metals.
Finally, I have 2 settlers in production to gift cities wherever I can. I'd rather have Sitting Bull and Boudica enter a war with another neighbour than myself.
What's to come ? An Academy in Thebes. I will keep running those 2 scientists and hire some in secondary cities. Run to Maths and try to backfill some techs.
Then I'm not sure.
Either I'll try to get some land from Sitting Bull. Having Ivory + border tensions makes it tempting to get Catapults + War Elephants.
Either I'll try to bulb my way to the Renaissance. That seems very risky, though, since most likely an AI will declare war on me and I won't have any decent military.
Any advice appreciated. The save is attached. At least I'll read some spoilers before going further
Screenies :
I opened your spoiler cuz i played further, and the placement of Heliopolis puzzles me.
Have you not scouted along the river first and spotted the marble + sheep + horses site? Loosing this location is huge :/
No, I scouted North first because the gold tile was revealed on turn 2.
Maybe settling Memphis by the Gold was a mistake, though, yes. At that time, I had knowledge of the Marble site.
By the time I was ready to settle my 3rd city, Sitting Bull had taken the Marble + Sheep + Corn site.
So Heliopolis could only be settled where it is, or 1N, losing coastal access but gaining a floodplains.
It isn't the only city I didn't settle where I wanted : Elephantine (NW, near Boudica) was intended to be settled 1SW by the river but I lost the spot by a few turns. In fact, I kept losing city spots.
Generally, I found it very hard to get settlers/workers out in time. I'm used to slowly expanding Immortal AIs, so I try to block land on very rare occasions.
Maybe settling Memphis by the gold was the biggest mistake but I feared maintenance a lot. I can see it has absolutely 0 strategic use. A more cohesive approach would have led me to settle the capital 1E to get instant connection with city 2 + cottages in the capital instead of the gold mine, I guess.
Not whipping must have played a role as well.
Thanks for your remark. Even though concise, it is enlightening
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... ...having played mainly aw games lately, i dont fear no bull nor deities and decide to hire the worker for hatty
...)
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