Deity please!

[Mylene]

@BiC

Spoiler :

sorry for the short answer, i usually do not write much about maps i play myself
For me it went: warrior straight east to the river end, and a bit further to see if someone is close.
Wasn't long till i saw brown borders, knew i had to hurry.
After the worker i used plains wood to get 2 (i think) more warriors out quick, the plan was to grow with the pigs and do the settler at size 2. Seems i got lucky to get there in time.

Your game seems to be rough now, i was scared about Boudi all the way, but with SB so close too it's huge deity pressure :/

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Spoiler :

I played till around 1400 AD and gave up. Montezuma got 20 freaking cities and ran away with the game. I don't see how I could have stopped Monte from getting so many cities either. He took out Hyuana Cupac and then had a huge open space to backfill.

I had 13 cities after vassalling Boudica, but it just wasn't enough to catch Monte. I recorded my play so I'll try to upload the videos shortly.

 

[Mylene]

600AD, time to gear up

Spoiler :

The political situation is that Boudi vassaled HC and prepares a war vs. Monty, at least i think because Surey has SB and Toku vassaled and she is friendly towards him, as she is to me. Which leaves only Monty, annoyed towards him.

I whipped the standard program: Universities + Oxford, sadly no really good city for it.
Nationalism with Lib. for TTM. I also built the Sistine Chapel
Took a gamble on Economics, it pays off i will have it next turn. Also creating (hopefully it will be them and not scientists) more great merchants during a TTM GA. Meanwhile iam building Knights, workshops, farms etc to get an army out.
Military Tradition 1 turn away also, i teched that before the trades towards economics happened when Surey went to friendly

Iam hoping to gather an army of Knights/Curs, get to Rifling and strike at Boudi with Cavs while she is busy with Monty. Or if that doesn't look promising, at Surey's Vassals but i'd much prefer Boudi's cities.

 

[Mylene]

@AZ i really enjoyed watching some of your video (geez you play fast)
In my game it was Monty vs. HC early, with Boudi just building up so i didn't see a chance to fight her and tried a peaceful route. Might pull it off now, but she is doing pretty good.

 

[GKey]

I give up. Can't overcome Boudica's troop spamming rate. Can't wait for your video, AZ. Have to look how you beat that #@$# !

Spoiler :

Yes Monty got huge peace of good land to his own, while all rest packed pretty tide. Especially SB. Poor guy got literally no land at all. Another map generator glitch I guess.

Keep it up Mylene. You are our last hope unless someone else will give it a try.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

150 A.D.
Things aren't going all that bad ! But I guess they can go much worse in the incoming centuries

Spoiler :

I reached Construction at 500 B.C. Trade opportunities are very scarce but Boudica and I are at a Friendly status. That's very relieving.
At that time, Boudi and Huayna were at war.
And Toku and S. Bull were also at war. Both were very backwards but Tokugawa had an edge, having Construction (he captured a city or 2).

Around 200 B.C., I backstabed the Native Americans. How shameless !
Now, at 150 A.D., this has allowed me to claim 3 cities along the southern coast (until Cahokia). So I have that marble tile I lost in the opening sequence, finally.

I had a monopoly on Aesthetics, so I was hoping I'd get both the Parthenon and the G. Lib.
The Parthenon would go in a city at Boudica's borders. She has 4 wonders on my borders, already and I can feel it badly.
However, the AIs have researched those techs real quick and I may lose those wonders ! At least the Parthenon. Unexpected.

After taking 3 cities from Sitting Bull, I have taken peace for some gpt, Calendar, Monotheism and Archery. Cool.

After Litterature, I went for CoL. The war funded that research. This allowed me to trade for Currency with Boudica and I am currently starting on Civil Service.


Wars have changed a bit :
Sitting Bull and Toku have made peace but Toku is now at war with Sury.
Huayna and Boudica also made peace and then the war is between Monty and Boudica.
Monty is now the score leader.
Boudica is still the tech leader but Huayna and Sury are closing in.

Plans for the future :
Finish off Sitting Bull and start conquering land from Tokugawa. I'd like to enter the Renaissance with a decent number of cities (currently at 10).
I won't expand west in the near future since the only AI > Cautious with me is my direct western neighbour.

Screenies :

Spoiler :

The Obelisk in Heliopolis is a prerequisite for the Statue of Zeus, in case you find it odd ^^

 

[AbsoluteZero]

@AZ i really enjoyed watching some of your video (geez you play fast)
In my game it was Monty vs. HC early, with Boudi just building up so i didn't see a chance to fight her and tried a peaceful route. Might pull it off now, but she is doing pretty good.

I was thinking taking out Boudica was a good way to slow down the biggest baddest AI ( which she was at the time ) but it backfired because Monte had all that land and he just filled the void left by Boudica ( and then some ).

So maybe going after Boudica early is a mistake on this map.

 

[Mylene]

How about this for an interesting screenie
Everyone piled on Monty, iam 3 turns away from rifling with a GA running and 1 Great Merchant almost ready to give me coin in one of Monty's cities, Boudi 4 turns to Rifling
HC finished the cheese Palace, so if i declare on him and Boudi i will most likely have to defy.

Going to raid with my guild soon so this will have to wait till maybe tomorrow, comments and suggestions always welcome

 

[Snaaty]

i never really understood people stating that an early rush on deity wont NEVER work. playing egypt and having horses nearby (second city is enough) + having an ai close enough to keep some of his cities, rushing (+ worker-stealing and all that nice goodies) works wonders

i rushed prot bull with totem poles (cg 3 archers) while getting backstabbed by boudi from the other side... ...imagine how my empire would be if i had rushed boudi and not bull or if i wouldnt have been backstabbed (simply didnt find boudi in time... ...scouted the other direction therefore rushing bull, if i had known about boudi in time, i would have rushed her)

hanni is also nice for rushing on deity with his horsarcher uu btw

 

[Mylene]

Depends on the map and the land you can grab, If you are low on commerce like on this start you have to ask yourself: How will i pay the rushed cities? Are they worth it? Are they on hills (if so, even simple archers are not easy to beat for WCs). What will the other nearby AIs do meanwhile, steal all the land that you could have blocked instead?

It can be the best thing to do, but it can also be the worst.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

840 A.D.

Spoiler :

The diplomacy has improved a lot

Tokugawa was (peace) vassalized by Montezuma. Both of them are at war with Boudica. I have supplied her Ivory so that she can have high quality troops.
Boudica hasn't captured any city, yet, but she holds the line. Which is perfectly fine with me.

Suryvayarman isn't annoyed with me anymore. So he is willing to trade

Sitting Bull is dead
I'm starting to have some landpower. Cities should grow bigger, though.

Tokugawa is next. I don't have much siege weapons left, though, so I'll need to build up again !
I should also send some spies scouting ahead. And maybe steal a tech or 2 from Boudica.

Huayna Capac researches and builds wonders. It's been a while since he last had a war.


Education has been researched.
I lack Philosophy to start on Liberalism.
A GS is due in 2 turns.
I don't have Compass so I can't bulb Liberalism.
I'll trade Compass and Philo to bulb Liberalism. I guess that's the best option.
I'll probably get... Not sure yet. Huayna already has Nationalism so he will get the Taj Mahal.

Sidenote : 3 Courthouses are built so I'll get started on the Forbidden Palace soon.

Screenshots :

Spoiler :

@ AbsoluteZero :

Spoiler :

I watched the first one hour of your let's play and it was very instructive
I realized Mylene was absolutely right and my city placement was aweful for the 1st 2 cities. They were the same "areas" as yours but strategically useless.
(2E of your Memphis and coastal Elephantine, not picking the marble.)
Too bad you forgot about Pottery, I'm sure your game would have unfolded much better with it.

Your worker turns were also enlightening. Such as not improving the 3rd pigs to road towards Memphis (hence improve the corn instead).

 

[AbsoluteZero]

How about this for an interesting screenie
Everyone piled on Monty, iam 3 turns away from rifling with a GA running and 1 Great Merchant almost ready to give me coin in one of Monty's cities, Boudi 4 turns to Rifling
HC finished the cheese Palace, so if i declare on him and Boudi i will most likely have to defy.

Going to raid with my guild soon so this will have to wait till maybe tomorrow, comments and suggestions always welcome

I took a look at your save Mylene. You are 3 turns from rifling but Boudica is 4 turns away, looks like you've been trading a lot with her. You won't want to go after Boudica when get rifles. Instead you want to attack SB ( who I'd just wipe out completely ) Then Toku, then Sury. Then you have enough land to deal with Boudica.

Bribe boudica to stop trading with sury otherwise she might give him rifles.

If you attack SB now Sury cannot help because he does not have OB with Toku. You can also take out Toku while you're still at war with Sury. Sury is nowhere close to rifles, and make sure Boudica doesn't give them to him. I don't think there is anything you can do about Hyuana cupac trading with sury.

The Aztecs are way behind and Monte will be crushed by Boudica, bribe Monte to make peace with Boudica unless you want Boudica to vassal him and take the game.


Why didn't you move your capitol to Memphis?


@BornInCantaloup

Glad you liked it. You seem to be doing ok. SB is not a bad target if you can keep Boudica from backstabbing.

 

[Mylene]

@AZ
Good point about the Capitol to Memphis, but i needed the production bonus for TTM etc.
After that i forgot about it a bit, maybe a mistake that's right, but the production is still pretty nice, not much worried about my Research but the army.
I'll take a look at the situation later, your plan with wiping out the Northeast sounds tempting

I made a booboo anyway with begging out gold from Boudi, even thou it was a nice amount, but now i have 7 turns left of peace.
The thing is, a war vs. her might be a challenge, that's what i like usually, not playing for the win mainly

 

[AbsoluteZero]

@AZ
Good point about the Capitol to Memphis, but i needed the production bonus for TTM etc.
After that i forgot about it a bit, maybe a mistake that's right, but the production is still pretty nice, not much worried about my Research but the army.
I'll take a look at the situation later, your plan with wiping out the Northeast sounds tempting

I made a booboo anyway with begging out gold from Boudi, even thou it was a nice amount, but now i have 7 turns left of peace.
The thing is, a war vs. her might be a challenge, that's what i like usually, not playing for the win mainly

Attacking rifles with rifles is suicide unless you have cannons, and by then it will be too late. Trebechets will do you no good, there. The eastern AI's are sitting ducks, you could take all 3 at once and still sweep them.

 

[Mylene]

Would be a fast strike with 30+ Cavs, question would be how many Rifles she can gather to defend in a matter of 2 turns in Bibracte while moving towards Monty. If i take 2 big cities while she is at war, that would most likely break her neck.
It'd just be interesting, riding over SB and Toku iam not so motivated for it
My usual problem as games go on, i find the ancient times more interesting.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Would be a fast strike with 30+ Cavs, question would be how many Rifles she can gather to defend in a matter of 2 turns in Bibracte while moving towards Monty. If i take 2 big cities while she is at war, that would most likely break her neck.
It'd just be interesting, riding over SB and Toku iam not so motivated for it
My usual problem as games go on, i find the ancient times more interesting.

Don't forget the deity AI's ability to upgrade units for next to nothing, once she get's rifling all her melee defenders will be rifles just a few turns after. I doubt if you can catch her without stacks of rifles in her cities.

 

[Mylene]

Besides the fair warnings and the door to kicking the other AIs wide open, iam going for Boudi
Call it female curiosity.
Her cities are as weak as they will ever get and it's the day i will strike, just 5 Rifles and 11 units combined currently in all 3 cities i want to take (Bibracte, Tolosa, Gergovia).

I'll make me some food and then play the war and let you know how it went, here is some pics.
It's 20 Cavs moving to the sheeps in front of Gergovia, and 9 to take Tolosa.
Some rifles in position to pick off those knights that she has moving at my borders for...whatever reason, free exp

 

[GKey]

Watching your video AZ. Very interesting and entertaining.

Gave me the clue why was I so late despite mids.

Spoiler :

The key was bulbing math! Yeah exactly these ~10 turns I needed that badly. Thx for your effort.

Despite knowledge that Boudica is the only power that can hold Monty at bay, I would attack her anyway. She would run away while I am dealing with SB and others. Plus I just can't stand temptation to backstub most advanced neighbor.

I still think that SIP was better here. Despite snowball effect of worker 3 turns earlier, having 6 cottage-able tiles in cap worth more IMO.

Spoiler :

And I witnessed desperate need of commerce in your video too.

Objections?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Watching your video AZ. Very interesting and entertaining.

Gave me the clue why was I so late despite mids.

Spoiler :

The key was bulbing math! Yeah exactly these ~10 turns I needed that badly. Thx for your effort.

Despite knowledge that Boudica is the only power that can hold Monty at bay, I would attack her anyway. She would run away while I am dealing with SB and others. Plus I just can't stand temptation to backstub most advanced neighbor.

I still think that SIP was better here. Despite snowball effect of worker 3 turns earlier, having 6 cottage-able tiles in cap worth more IMO.

Spoiler :

And I witnessed desperate need of commerce in your video too.

Objections?

Tough map because of the two superpowers Monte and Boudica. Leave them alone and they become monsters, take one of them out and the other will become a super-monster. Maybe if Hyuana didn't fold so easily this game

The commerce problem is why I usually start with cottages instead of specialists. I fixed it by getting currency, but that makes for a later rush.

I hate bulbing math but sometimes you can't trade for it in time.

 

[Mylene]

That was easy AI stupidity included, she moved 1 Rifle out of Bibracte to attack a pack of 4 unpromoted Cavs that i put on the hill under Tolosa to make them look tasty.
Too bad for Milady that this just left her with 1 weakly promoted Rifle and a silly Longbow in the city, and my 3 Cavs managed to beat that

I had good success with Flanking 2 in Gergovia, ~60% retreat chance is nice when you have the reserves. Only lost 7 Cavs in total, killing 6 Rifles in cities.

She bribed Toku into war, but he doesn't even have open borders to SB
Oh well lots of options now, i got the Rifles to guard the captured cities and reinforcments are still rolling out. Forgot the save before the attack, here is before and after.